Coin grading app 2 2

[Hoghead515]

Ive seen it all. I was on Facebook looking at deer pictures and saw a new coin grading app. This thing is kindling on the fire. Its called Coin Snap. You take pictures of your coin and its supposed to grade your coin and tell you the value. This will be very bad for new collectors. I went to google play just to check it out. I know better than to use anything like that. I was just investigating to see what kind of garbage was going to get newbies thinking their common coin is worth thousands. I installed it just to check its accuracy. First I checked a heavily circulated 1922 peace dollar that would probably grade as fine. It told me it was xf and worth $65. Then I checked a 1909 cent. It told me it was xf and worth $109,299   Then I checked a Henning nickel. Told me it was a regular Jefferson nickel worth $1 at very fine. So it didnt spot that it was a counterfeit. So not only is there YouTube, Etsy, and other things on the internet. Now theres this. On Facebook it had several comments from people bragging on it. Just spreading the news if no one has saw it yet. Its the first time Ive seen it. Ive seen other coin apps that were helpful in helping identify coins but tthis is the first Ive seen that grades and gives a value. This cant be to good. 

[Coinbuf]

Sounds like this place will see even more newbies arguing, I can hear it now, if it's on the app it must be true.  

[Hoghead515]

On 11/14/2022 at 9:23 PM, Coinbuf said:

Sounds like this place will see even more newbies arguing, I can hear it now, if it's on the app it must be true.  

That was my thoughts soon as I seen it. 

[Henri Charriere]

If an app on Google Play can do all that, why would anyone need TPGS?  That's very dangerous.  It's going to cause a lot of dissension in the ranks.  Spread a lot of misinformation.  Now, we'll read posts from people disputing formal grades from graders.  I'll have to check it out.  Thanks for the heads-up!

[Sandon]

   I recall that back around 1990 PCGS and others spent a great deal of money trying to create a computer program to grade coins.  It didn't work then and wouldn't now.  Grading is by its nature is subjective and nuanced and involves a variety of factors that can't be precisely measured.  There could never be a precise set of instructions that would enable a computer to precisely grade coins to the general approval of collectors.

[VKurtB]

Sheesh! I downloaded that puppy about a week ago with the intention of looking it over. Now I’m frightened. It is by Next Vision Limited of Hong Kong, which is no different from the Chinese Communist Party any more. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/14/2022 at 10:21 PM, VKurtB said:

Sheesh!....It is by Next Vision Limited of Hong Kong, which is no different from the Chinese Communist Party any more. 

I love your intermittent references to what the Falun Dong folks refer to, in whispers, as the CCP.,

Hey, maybe it worked just fine with their coinage!  

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/14/2022 at 10:06 PM, Sandon said:

   I recall that back around 1990 PCGS and others spent a great deal of money trying to create a computer program to grade coins.  It didn't work then and wouldn't now.  Grading is by its nature is subjective and nuanced and involves a variety of factors that can't be precisely measured.  There could never be a precise set of instructions that would enable a computer to precisely grade coins to the general approval of collectors.

For modern coins, and probably for the bulk of classic coins, I think Hi-Def scanners could do a reasonable job with MOST coins.  Certainly moderns, where 99.9% of the coins are 70, 69, or 68's. 

[Sandon]

@GoldFinger1969--I doubt that this could be done for "classic" coins or even modern coins made for circulation because they vary so much in strike, luster, location and severity of abrasions, toning, and other effects of environmental exposure, as well as the undefinably subjective "eye appeal".  As for untoned modern collector issues, they could possibly be graded 68-70 by computer because they all look virtually alike--which is why they really don't need to be graded as anything other than Superb Gem Uncirculated or Proof anyway!  Even for these issues, how could a computer be programmed to evaluate the positive or negative impact of toning, which varies infinitely in color, pattern, extent, location, and intensity?

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/14/2022 at 11:19 PM, Sandon said:

@GoldFinger1969--I doubt that this could be done for "classic" coins or even modern coins made for circulation because they vary so much in strike, luster, location and severity of abrasions, toning, and other effects of environmental exposure, as well as the undefinably subjective "eye appeal".  

I agree with these points.  I know I would not trust a computer scan, even a sophisticated one, to judge a Saint.  My own eyes + TPG + CAC (maybe).

On 11/14/2022 at 11:19 PM, Sandon said:

As for untoned modern collector issues, they could possibly be graded 68-70 by computer because they all look virtually alike--which is why they really don't need to be graded as anything other than Superb Gem Uncirculated or Proof anyway!  Even for these issues, how could a computer be programmed to evaluate the positive or negative impact of toning, which varies infinitely in color, pattern, extent, location, and intensity?

Good questions....I guess that is where AI could come in.  But it may be an issue that appears simple on paper but in reality is much more complicated -- like self-driving autos.

[Ray Tatum]

Flip the paradigm, my coins are valuable then. Fodder for the forums, more dark-fingered Craigslist ads, and buyers for the coins on eBay that are pixel dusty by now.

[J P M]

On 11/14/2022 at 10:21 PM, VKurtB said:

Sheesh! I downloaded that puppy about a week ago with the intention of looking it over. Now I’m frightened. It is by Next Vision Limited of Hong Kong, which is no different from the Chinese Communist Party any more. 

So now everyone scans there coins and the pictures go directly to the counterfeiters in China so they can do a better job.         I DON'T THINK SO......... 

Edited November 15, 2022 by J P M

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/14/2022 at 11:19 PM, Sandon said:

@GoldFinger1969I how could a computer be programmed to evaluate the positive or negative impact of toning, which varies infinitely in color, pattern, extent, location, and intensity?

[ I believe, a highly-placed source, speaking ex cathedra on behalf of the congregation stated toning is not (or perhaps, should not) be a factor to be considered in rendering an opinion on a formal grade.]  🤔 

[VKurtB]

On 11/15/2022 at 8:43 AM, J P M said:

So now everyone scans there coins and the pictures go directly to the counterfeiters in China so they can do a better job.         I DON'T THINK SO......... 

WINNAH, WINNAH, CHICKEN DINNAH!

[RWB]

Take and axe to it -- quick !

[Hoghead515]

Id say with that app out the listings on Ebay and Etsy will really start getting crazy. I bout fell over laughing when it told me that 1909 Lincoln cent was worth $109,000. Its really not funny though. Wonder how many people out there will not know better. And how many will take its word and buy something like that. Ive only been in the hobby for a couple years and I can already see where its heading. I can only imagine how the good ole glory days of collecting was. Would love to have started back then. Before social media took a major toll on everything. And all the endless sources making it easier to spread misinformation. Im sure bad info was being spread back then also. But it has to be alot worse now with You Tube, internet, and now coin grading and pricing apps. I can only imagine whats waiting on down the road. 

[J P M]

On 11/15/2022 at 7:29 PM, Hoghead515 said:

Id say with that app out the listings on Ebay and Etsy will really start getting crazy. I bout fell over laughing when it told me that 1909 Lincoln cent was worth $109,000. Its really not funny though. Wonder how many people out there will not know better. And how many will take its word and buy something like that. Ive only been in the hobby for a couple years and I can already see where its heading. I can only imagine how the good ole glory days of collecting was. Would love to have started back then. Before social media took a major toll on everything. And all the endless sources making it easier to spread misinformation. Im sure bad info was being spread back then also. But it has to be alot worse now with You Tube, internet, and now coin grading and pricing apps. I can only imagine whats waiting on down the road. 

You said it Hog........The old days you really needed to know your stuff. It was tough. If you did not belong to a coin club or subscribe to a coin magazine everything would get stretched out or misquoted. Reading and research was a must. This forum is a storehouse of knowledge that newcomers can not grasp because they think the internet information is the gospel and most of it is not. I know it is difficult to see the same 1982 D every day but we have to keep trying or this hobby is not going to be able to survive the Male Cow Feces being handed out to unsuspecting future numismatics.