Popular Post Coinbuf Posted October 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 13, 2022 As I suspected the recent rumors that CAC would start its own grading service are now confirmed. Here is a link to a CoinWorld article outlining the new service, not a ton of details but this should get interesting. Coinworld RonnieR131, Hoghead515, The Neophyte Numismatist and 2 others 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadok Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 ...was obvious this next logical step, been in the works for some time... GoldFinger1969 and Hoghead515 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RonnieR131 Posted October 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 13, 2022 It definitely opens up a lot of questions. I think this could be good, although he kind of hints that higher end coins will be their main customer base. Hoghead515, GoldFinger1969 and Quintus Arrius 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simple Collector Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 On 10/13/2022 at 1:30 PM, ronnie stein said: It definitely opens up a lot of questions. I think this could be good, although he kind of hints that higher end coins will be their main customer base. I would say they already are as they do not certify all coin series now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Just Bob Posted October 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) I can't say this comes as a surprise. It seemed to me it was just a matter of time before this happened. Edited October 13, 2022 by Just Bob GoldFinger1969, Quintus Arrius, Hoghead515 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 He says he'll be phasing out the Green Sticker's (beans) over time. Interesting...... RonnieR131 and zadok 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 On 10/13/2022 at 2:40 PM, GoldFinger1969 said: He says he'll be phasing out the Green Sticker's (beans) over time. Interesting...... This strikes me as one of the most inevitable and funniest actions ever taken in numismatics. Quintus Arrius 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Quintus Arrius Posted October 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 13, 2022 Let's see now... a "standard" grading system... and yet another grading company. How nice. The collector now has a multiplicity of choices. Luster? Send that to X. Eye appeal? Better send that one into Y. Strong strike, Subdued color? That's easy, Z's your guy! Choices, choices, choices. "Empirical, replicable standards"? Who said that? Security! Kindly escort that gentleman out. Hoghead515, AdamWL and GoldFinger1969 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerbait Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Here we grow again. Always changing and hopefully, improving processes. How it will affect outcomes is anyones guess at this point. GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadok Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 On 10/13/2022 at 1:30 PM, ronnie stein said: It definitely opens up a lot of questions. I think this could be good, although he kind of hints that higher end coins will be their main customer base. ...n that isnt a bad thing, originally only higher dollar items were the only coins being submitted...the rationale was to "standardize" the wide gaps between the higher dollar coins caused by price swings between 1 or 2 points on the grading scale...i distinctly remember being at the long beach show in 1985 n witnessing the submission n re-submission of early gold n yes morgan dollars in attempts to get that 1 or 2 point increase, common date n low dollar coins were almost never being submitted except for coins needing to be certified as genuine...it wasnt until later when all this "marketing" of common date modern coins became the norm that u saw the certification volume swell...the price swings tween a 20 n 25 or a 40 n a 45 coin started occurring later...i remember hearing all the loud bangs of certified coins being slammed on the concrete floors n being submitted immediately for regrading...it sounded like the shootout at the o.k. corral.... RonnieR131 and Hoghead515 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadok Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 On 10/13/2022 at 4:10 PM, Tigerbait said: Here we grow again. Always changing and hopefully, improving processes. How it will affect outcomes is anyones guess at this point. ...i suspect that the movers n shakers have already modeled this n have a good idea of exactly where its headed, this was not an impulse decision.... Tigerbait 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RWB Posted October 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) Without consistency between "grades" it is nothing more than the same old krapski as before TPGs were anointed to bring stability 35 years ago. Edited October 14, 2022 by RWB Quintus Arrius, dragon and AdamWL 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadok Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 On 10/13/2022 at 4:53 PM, RWB said: Without consistency between "grades" it is nothing more than the same old krapski as before TPGs were anointed to being stability. ...empirically speaking...limited capacity consistently begets limited insight...same old krapski without any anointment.... Quintus Arrius 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus Arrius Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 On 10/13/2022 at 4:19 PM, zadok said: ...n that isnt a bad thing, .... it sounded like the shootout at the o.k. corral.... Q.A.: ... if i may direct your kind attention, "empirically speaking," to your opening and closing lines ... when ever has a shootout not been a bad thing? 🐓: ... i don't know from shootouts, but how about a shout-out to the OP? ... Q.A.: ... 'ey, if it ain' "chopper one!" ... how's it goin'? ... long time, no see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFeld Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 On 10/13/2022 at 12:30 PM, ronnie stein said: It definitely opens up a lot of questions. I think this could be good, although he kind of hints that higher end coins will be their main customer base. What did he say that made you think that (about higher end coins’)? I didn’t pick up on such a hint. GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Coinbuf Posted October 13, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted October 13, 2022 A youtube video between John Feigenbaum and JA about this new service and it answers a few of the questions that I had. Video The Neophyte Numismatist, GoldFinger1969 and Tigerbait 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) On 10/13/2022 at 1:30 PM, ronnie stein said: It definitely opens up a lot of questions. I think this could be good, although he kind of hints that higher end coins will be their main customer base. I would guess he's not looking to do re-grades of existing TPGs for small $$$....probably doesn't want to do bulk modern submissions, either. Like you said, concentrating on the high-end kind of makes sense, at least starting out. Does anybody know what fee is paid for a coin costing $100,000 from the TPGs (approx) ? What about CAC ? Edited October 13, 2022 by GoldFinger1969 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 On 10/13/2022 at 3:19 PM, zadok said: ...n that isnt a bad thing, originally only higher dollar items were the only coins being submitted...the rationale was to "standardize" the wide gaps between the higher dollar coins caused by price swings between 1 or 2 points on the grading scale...i distinctly remember being at the long beach show in 1985 n witnessing the submission n re-submission of early gold n yes morgan dollars in attempts to get that 1 or 2 point increase, common date n low dollar coins were almost never being submitted except for coins needing to be certified as genuine...it wasnt until later when all this "marketing" of common date modern coins became the norm that u saw the certification volume swell...the price swings tween a 20 n 25 or a 40 n a 45 coin started occurring later...i remember hearing all the loud bangs of certified coins being slammed on the concrete floors n being submitted immediately for regrading...it sounded like the shootout at the o.k. corral.... That’s still going on. One end of the slab goes on the concrete floor. The other end goes on the rail that runs along the floor on those Z-rail trade show chairs, and BLAM! slab opening by clodhoppers. Probably tiny plastic shards embedding in legs and tablecloths, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 On 10/13/2022 at 6:25 PM, GoldFinger1969 said: I would guess he's not looking to do re-grades of existing TPGs for small $$$....probably doesn't want to do bulk modern submissions, either. Like you said, concentrating on the high-end kind of makes sense, at least starting out. Does anybody know what fee is paid for a coin costing $100,000 from the TPGs (approx) ? What about CAC ? Wait. You mean you DON’T have first-hand experience with that? Quintus Arrius and GoldFinger1969 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadok Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 On 10/13/2022 at 9:34 PM, VKurtB said: That’s still going on. One end of the slab goes on the concrete floor. The other end goes on the rail that runs along the floor on those Z-rail trade show chairs, and BLAM! slab opening by clodhoppers. Probably tiny plastic shards embedding in legs and tablecloths, too. ...see still a market for boots, shinguards n chaps.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus Arrius Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 On 10/13/2022 at 11:30 PM, zadok said: ...see still a market for boots, shinguards n chaps.... ...me thinketh your age is showing, bloke!... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 On 10/13/2022 at 9:35 PM, VKurtB said: Wait. You mean you DON’T have first-hand experience with that? I traded in my 6-figure coins for some Woodrow Wilson $100,000 bills. Get off my case !! rrantique and RonnieR131 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus Arrius Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 Q.A.: Anybody remember when a crack, was just a crack? Now we've got crack-outs, crackheads, die cracks, not to mention one member's continuing fascination with "proof" die cracks. 🐓: What do they call collectors who crack coins out of slabs? Q.A.: I don't know that there is a formal name, but do yourself and me a favor and don't call them crackers. Sheesh! Tigerbait 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieR131 Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 On 10/13/2022 at 5:41 PM, MarkFeld said: What did he say that made you think that (about higher end coins’)? I didn’t pick up on such a hint. After reading again, you're right. I was referring to the last paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmarguli Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 I suspect that the people that would pay for a sticker are different from the people who slab coins. CAC is going to need to give submitters a reason to send to them instead of PCGS/NGC. The only reason would be more profit. Yet it seems like an extremely uphill battle for a CAC slab to trade at a higher price than the well established PCGS/NGC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 I've never understood the hype about CAC. I have a few coins in holders with green "CAC" stickers and don't find any of them to be particularly "choice for the grade" or undergraded. One is an 1883 "No Cents" Liberty nickel graded PR64 CAM by PCGS the frost of whose devices is so light as to make its "cameo" status arguable. I also have a 1942 Walking Liberty half dollar in a PCGS "rattler" holder (the original holder used c.1986-89) graded PR64 with a gold CAC sticker. It is nice and could grade "65" today, but that isn't unusual for certified coins of that vintage. I bought each of these coins for what I thought was a reasonable price as I evaluated them, always below retail list at the designated grade. The CAC stickers weren't involved in my calculation of their value. Nor is the grading service grade when I consider a coin to be overgraded. I have long been disheartened about the willingness of many collectors to base purchasing decisions largely or entirely on the name and number on a little paper tag or the presence or absence of a sticker. Why isn't it better to gain knowledge about the coins one wishes to collect and to base purchasing decisions on that knowledge and on one's own personal judgment and taste? EagleRJO and Tigerbait 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Neophyte Numismatist Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 I like CAC coins and wish him well. Personally, I would love EAC to have a grading service. Unfortunately, not many are looking for grades to go down. Coinbuf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus Arrius Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 On 10/14/2022 at 4:46 PM, Sandon said: ....Why isn't it better to gain knowledge about the coins one wishes to collect and to base purchasing decisions on that knowledge and on one's own personal judgment and taste? 🐓: Cat got your tongue? Q.A.: Not exactly. More like z. He is a proponent of CAC and, frankly, I find it difficult to speak for attribution with his eyes boring right through me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 Contrary to popular opinion, John Albanese is NOT immortal, and he’s showing signs of age. CAC had to end eventually, because everybody dies. His biggest challenge is building a staff that he can stand and who can stand him. Let’s call them “worshippers”. It’s as accurate as any other term. Having both incumbents owned by private equity was bound to become an issue for somebody with deep pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadok Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 On 10/14/2022 at 2:48 PM, gmarguli said: I suspect that the people that would pay for a sticker are different from the people who slab coins. CAC is going to need to give submitters a reason to send to them instead of PCGS/NGC. The only reason would be more profit. Yet it seems like an extremely uphill battle for a CAC slab to trade at a higher price than the well established PCGS/NGC. ...im betting it wont take as long as u mite imagine for the cac cert coins to outpace the others...but the proof will be in the pudding.... Quintus Arrius 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
