Anyone know of a coin shop / bullion dealer with an XRF machine in the Dallas metro? 1 1

[VKurtB]

On 10/30/2022 at 2:18 PM, EagleRJO said:

@VKurtBI think you are getting sucked into this scammer's worthless junk science "tests" which is pointless given the appearance of the coin edge.

I think the rooster that @Quintus Arrius has would disagree with the last part as grading and SG tests have been around since 1892 when Joseph Hooper published the first proposed grading standards. But I guess that is "a rather new development" for scammers.  

Yea, his fixation on “tests” is annoying, because anyone with ANY experience knows the coin is a CuNi clad. The problem is that this type of member comes along far too often. It’s ridiculous. And they get something approaching “encouragement” from some amateur “dealers”.

[VKurtB]

It’s really frustrating to get new collectors to understand that sooooo many supposed “dealers” are actually completely useless charlatans, but that the true pros are almost indispensable in dealing with errors, varieties, and rarities. There is no easy or convenient way to separate the wheat from the chaff. I know many of each type, and they DON’T wear badges. The best way (and it’s not good enough) is to only deal with ANA or PNG member dealers. 

[EagleRJO]

On 10/30/2022 at 3:53 PM, VKurtB said:

The best way (and it’s not good enough) is to only deal with ANA or PNG member dealers.

Agreed. And getting familiar with some who have made honest assessments on raw coins which you may be interested in is huge in my book, like "just so you know this one has been cleaned and may or may not straight grade", or "this one is a borderline VF+ to XF, but I would still value it at VF+" etc. I would stick with a dealer like that even if some of the coins may be just a bit more occasionally. And of course, there is no substitute for learning how to make those assessments for yourself.

Edited October 30, 2022 by EagleRJO

[VKurtB]

On 10/30/2022 at 3:02 PM, EagleRJO said:

Agreed. And getting familiar with some who have made honest assessments on raw coins you may be interested is huge in my book, like "just so you know this one has been cleaned and may or may not straight grade", or "this one is a borderline VF+ to XF, but I would still value it at VF+" etc. And of course, there is no substitute for learning how to make those assessments for yourself.

One of the downsides of the era of TPGS firms (strictly my personal individual opinion) is that people no longer feel it’s important to learn to grade. Or at least that it’s not important ENOUGH to dedicate the time required. I’ve taken formal classes and I STILL want more training. My grades are almost always too low, and I want to know grading of non-U.S.

Edited October 30, 2022 by VKurtB

[Oldhoopster]

The XRD info he previously posted (he said it showed Cu-Ni but didn't believe it because somebody hacked into the equipment ) and the edge picture showing the copper core is all the proof needed to show it's not 40% silver.  Trying to sell this on BST with solid data proving it's not what you claim should be reported to the moderators as a scam

This member is either completely ignorant of the science and testing methods he claims as his proof, or he is scamming/trolling this board.  I don't think anyone can be so clueless as to make these claims with the information provided, so he must be trolling/scamming the members.  His posts are being reported to the moderators and I hope the take appropriate action.

[VKurtB]

On 10/30/2022 at 3:14 PM, Oldhoopster said:

The XRD info he previously posted (he said it showed Cu-Ni but didn't believe it because somebody hacked into the equipment ) and the edge picture showing the copper core is all the proof needed to show it's not 40% silver.  Trying to sell this on BST with solid data proving it's not what you claim should be reported to the moderators as a scam

This member is either completely ignorant of the science and testing methods he claims as his proof, or he is scamming/trolling this board.  I don't think anyone can be so clueless as to make these claims with the information provided, so he must be trolling/scamming the members.  His posts are being reported to the moderators and I hope the take appropriate action.

What does hacking an XRF even MEAN??? He has written some things that have a whiff of a paranoid disorder. 

[Oldhoopster]

On 10/30/2022 at 4:16 PM, VKurtB said:

What does hacking an XRF even MEAN??? He has written some things that have a whiff of a paranoid disorder. 

What does it mean?  It means he has no idea how a handheld XRF works.  Comments like that absolutely kills any credibility the guy might have had. 

BTW, if the OP is Still reading this thread, I have been using XRF data for process control and product development for 30+ years. We used XRF data to maintain the compositions of 3 500,000 lb glass tanks each pulling 50-70,000 lbs a day.  Letting it get out of spec was 1-3 days of downtime at $20k/day.  I've even operated lab XRFs years ago. What are your XRF qualifications?

Edited October 30, 2022 by Oldhoopster

[VKurtB]

On 10/30/2022 at 3:46 PM, Oldhoopster said:

What does it mean?  It means he has no idea how a handheld XRF works.  Comments like that absolutely kills any credibility the guy might have had. 

BTW, if the OP is Still reading this thread, I have been using XRF data for process control and product development for 30+ years. We used XRF data to maintain the compositions of 3 500,000 lb glass tanks peach pulling 50-70,000 lbs a day.  Letting it get out of spec was 1-3 days of downtime at $20k/day.  I've even operated lab XRFs years ago. What are your XRF qualifications?

Full disclosure: I may have seen one sometime, but not that I know of. I’ve never held a coin for which I was suspicious of its composition, so why would I care?

[EagleRJO]

For whatever it's worth I think the op posted that the XRF was not handheld. However, the results were Cu-Ni which is a dead-on-balls-accurate match with the edge pics, so it really doesn't matter.

[VKurtB]

Here’s my dealio: if I EVER had even a single coin, and I haven’t had even one in 59+ years among hundreds of thousands of coins, that I thought was an off planchet, the LAST thing I’d be doing is looking for an XRF machine. I’d put it in a 2 and a half inch flip and stick it in my “For NGC Grading” box, and in the ensuing months I’d schlep it to a show and drop it off at NGC. That’s my system. No drama, no hyperventilating, no ridiculous forum posts. 

[VKurtB]

By the way, I got my butt kicked in NGC’s grading contest at Rosemont mostly because I graded the “monsters” way too low. 

Edited October 30, 2022 by VKurtB

[Hoghead515]

Only time Ive ever seen an XRF machine was on tv. On discovery channel type shows where people would find artifacts and they was trying to figure out their compositions. Im with @VKurtB. If I ever suspected I found one on a different planchet, it would go to NGC.  More than likely I wont ever have to worry about it. Id probably have better odds hitting the powerball. 

[VKurtB]

On 10/30/2022 at 4:21 PM, Hoghead515 said:

Only time Ive ever seen an XRF machine was on tv. On discovery channel type shows where people would find artifacts and they was trying to figure out their compositions. Im with @VKurtB. If I ever suspected I found one on a different planchet, it would go to NGC.  More than likely I wont ever have to worry about it. Id probably have better odds hitting the powerball. 

Well, Monday night’s jackpot is expected to pass $1billion. Can’t buy tickets in Alabama. 

[Hoghead515]

On 10/30/2022 at 5:31 PM, VKurtB said:

Well, Monday night’s jackpot is expected to pass $1billion. Can’t buy tickets in Alabama. 

I sure could use that. Id love to have a few million to put into the collection. . May even spend some on the old lady and kids to. 

[EagleRJO]

On 10/30/2022 at 5:53 PM, Hoghead515 said:

I sure could use that. Id love to have a few million to put into the collection. . May even spend some on the old lady and kids to. 

"May" ... you are in deep trouble if the ole lady sees that post! 

[Taylor7]

I finally got my hands on a scale I trust and did an SG test and it turns out the coin is not silver. Deleted the WTS post. It was never my intention to scam or deceive, hence the discussion on testing methods and what would constitute proof. I really don't understand the hostility. There is a lot of conflicting information. For example, in the Cherry pickers guide the author states NOT to look at the edge of the coin to differentiate Cu-Ni clad coins from 40% Ag. I suppose its possible the coin is plated, but I don't understand how only the obverse/reverse would be plated and not the edge. I suppose its also possible that since the coin was dipped in E-z-est and many silver coins had been previously dipped that caused the change in color when exposed to sulfur, but I don't think such a small amount of silver could make the coin shine like it does or pass the tissue test. 

[Oldhoopster]

The cherry pickers guide tells you NOT to look at the edge because it could be plated or discolored due to environmental damage giving the false impression that it could be silver when it isn't.

Your coin Showed a copper core in the clad layers.  No questions, no maybes, it was a copper core.  A 40% silver planchet DOES NOT have a copper core. Plain and simple

Why are people hostile. Because they spent the time and effort to give you accurate info. Yet you disagreed with the most basic info that any new collector would understand. You disagreed with the XRF data for some completely ridiculous reason of being hacked.  You failed to understand the basics of clad coins even when explained in detail.  And you tried to peddle a 50 cent coin for a significant sum, even after you proved it wasn't an error.

Hey QA. Another person for my Do Not Respond list. He has shown he is not worth the time nor effort to help as it falls on deaf ears. 

[EagleRJO]

Well, I am glad you finally came to your senses and did an industry accepted test to verify the XRF results and what pics of the edge were showing, which confirmed it was a regular Cu-Ni clad coin with no extra value. Since you did that and removed the listing, I removed my references to you as being a scammer.

However, a lot of the negative feedback you were getting was of your own making when very early on people were asking to see pics of the edges or saying that you should do SG tests to confirm the XRF results. You didn't heed the advice and comments of very experienced people and blindly plowed ahead listing the coin for sale. There is a lot of incorrect information, half-truths, unreliable indicators (e.g. tissue "tests") and hyped-up click-bait vids by people who have no idea what they are talking about with the sole purpose of getting views to make money on the web. Hopefully you realize that now and will be a little more skeptical of such things in the future.