Wilma Mankiller Errors? 0

[Nomad_Romad]

I picked up a roll of Wilma Mankiller Quarters as well as a roll of Sally Ride. Almost the entire roll of Sally Ride had pronounced "ghost comets." I have 2 Wilma's that I'm not quite sure what I have. I cannot find other examples of a possible error that looks like a "starburst" to me. Pictures below for your consideration. 

[Just Bob]

Welcome to the forum.

Judging from your pictures, everything that you have circled is damage, most likely from contact with other coins in the mint box or bag. Even the things that look similar to letters are just contact marks that happen to resemble something with which your brain is familiar. Like finding shapes in the clouds.

[J P M]

I agree with Bob it is just contact marks and stuff  that makes you think you are seeing things .Now I am seeing things ?. Is the date 2027  it is just a shadow but it looks close to a 7

[Nomad_Romad]

On 8/24/2022 at 1:24 PM, Just Bob said:

Welcome to the forum.

Judging from your pictures, everything that you have circled is damage, most likely from contact with other coins in the mint box or bag. Even the things that look similar to letters are just contact marks that happen to resemble something with which your brain is familiar. Like finding shapes in the clouds.

Thank you! Glad to be here. I don't know if I'm using the proper terminology, but what about the cuds in her hair in photo 1  and the cuds on the necklace on both reverses? I can understand indentions being post mint, but what about protruding areas like on her chin and coat that are not supposed to be there. I'm genuinely asking to learn as I am a green horn when it comes to all of this. I truly appreciate the knowledge base here.

[EagleRJO]

For some strange reason you are circling mostly either higher points on the coin more susceptible to damage or flat fields where your mind expects to see very smooth plain surfaces. 

On 8/24/2022 at 5:10 PM, Jim Buckley said:

I can understand indentions being post mint, but what about protruding areas like on her chin and coat that are not supposed to be there.

Are those really protruding areas?  Or are they remaining higher surfaces of the original coin with multiple scratches or gouges in those areas, which is what it appears to be for me and others.  But you have the coin in hand, with photos not always telling the whole story, and they sometimes don't really show if certain things are cut inwards from say multiple scratches or gouges, or if they are outward protrusions and raised areas from say a die crack or defect.  If you look at the areas with a scope or a 40x loupe, either with a built-in LED (my preference) or near a 100w light source, that should resolve the question.

On 8/24/2022 at 3:13 PM, J P M said:

I am seeing things ?. Is the date 2027  it is just a shadow but it looks close to a 7

I think you are seeing things JP as it appears to just be a "2" at the end of a 2022 date, rotated and a little blurry.  See the attached. 

Edited August 24, 2022 by EagleRJO

[Nomad_Romad]

On 8/24/2022 at 5:04 PM, EagleRJO said:

For some strange reason you are circling mostly either higher points on the coin more susceptible to damage or flat fields where you mind expects to see very smooth plain surfaces. 

Are those really protruding areas?  Or are they remaining higher surfaces of the original coin with multiple scratches or gouges in those areas, which is what it appears to be for me and others.  But you have the coin in hand with photos not always telling the whole story, and they sometimes don't really show if certain things are cut inwards from say multiple scratches or gouges, or if they are outward protrusions and raised areas from say a die crack or defect.  If you look at the areas with say a scope or a 40x loupe, either with a built-in LED (my preference) or near a 100w light source, that should resolve the issue.

I think you are seeing things JP as it appears to just be a "2" at the end of a 2022 date, rotated and a little blurry.  See the attached.

I appreciate it. I should have a digital microscope tomorrow. 

 

[VKurtB]

On 8/24/2022 at 5:07 PM, Jim Buckley said:

I appreciate it. I should have a digital microscope tomorrow. 

 

That might make things worse, seriously. 

[J P M]

On 8/24/2022 at 6:04 PM, EagleRJO said:

For some strange reason you are circling mostly either higher points on the coin more susceptible to damage or flat fields where you mind expects to see very smooth plain surfaces. 

Are those really protruding areas?  Or are they remaining higher surfaces of the original coin with multiple scratches or gouges in those areas, which is what it appears to be for me and others.  But you have the coin in hand with photos not always telling the whole story, and they sometimes don't really show if certain things are cut inwards from say multiple scratches or gouges, or if they are outward protrusions and raised areas from say a die crack or defect.  If you look at the areas with say a scope or a 40x loupe, either with a built-in LED (my preference) or near a 100w light source, that should resolve the issue.

I think you are seeing things JP as it appears to just be a "2" at the end of a 2022 date, rotated and a little blurry.  See the attached.

Aww ,Jo you took the fun out of it. Turning the photo and enlarging it was not the point. It was the statement, (Now I am seeing things). to emphasize how easy things can look like, things they are not. 

[EagleRJO]

On 8/24/2022 at 6:07 PM, Jim Buckley said:

I appreciate it. I should have a digital microscope tomorrow. 

Some people swear by the USB scopes, so I tried one out but didn't like it.  No substitute for me to holding a coin in your hand to tilt it while you look at it with a 40x loupe w/ built-in LED light.  Even though I am a newer avid collector, maybe I just can't shake that old school picked up from the gp going through glass milk jugs full of pocket change with a pull-down kitchen light and a pos magnifying glass. 

[EagleRJO]

On 8/24/2022 at 7:00 PM, J P M said:

Aww ,Jo you took the fun out of it. Turning the photo and enlarging it was not the point. It was the statement, (Now I am seeing things). to emphasize how easy things can look like, things they are not. 

Sorry to spoil your fun JP. 

But on a lighter note, I saw the attached today and immediately chuckled and thought of your nickel collection.  That would keep you busy over the winter since you already went through the rolls! 

[VKurtB]

On 8/24/2022 at 6:01 PM, EagleRJO said:

Some people swear by the USB scopes, so I tried one out but didn't like it.  No substitute for me to holding a coin in your hand to tilt it while you look at it with a 40x loupe w/ built-in LED light.  Even though I am a newer avid collector, maybe I just can't shake that old school picked up from the gp going through glass milk jugs full of pocket change with a pull-down kitchen light and a pos magnifying glass. 

Some people swear BY USB scopes; I swear AT them. Horrible tool. 

[J P M]

On 8/24/2022 at 7:09 PM, EagleRJO said:

Sorry to spoil your fun JP. 

But on a lighter note, I saw the attached today and immediately chuckled and thought of your nickel collection.  That would keep you busy over the winter since you already went through the rolls! 

It is more about the learning experience and the pareidolia that comes with coin searching than making fun. Jim, If you search a lot like I do you have many double takes on coins that you just have to weed out. Thanks, Jo, Ya that bag would keep me busy for around seven to ten days. I average 3 rolls or more a night if I am not going to fast. LoL.. I like my girls at the bank they always give me the home rolls or older looking if they have them. Plus I exchange the old rolls for new rolls that bag is $139.99 over face value. A bit of a mark up there. I guess you are paying for the funny smelling guy in the cellar who sorted out 21 years of Nickels.

Edited August 25, 2022 by J P M

[Nomad_Romad]

I truly appreciate all the advice. Of course I would be over the moon to find some new error or variety, but I also realize the odds of that are very slim. It just makes me more excited to keep hunting. I'm positive that there will be a steep learning curve for me. When I began woodworking I used to think that pocket screwing everything together was fine woodworking. I then learned and practiced hand-cut joints. As my skills progressed so did my quality. I can see similarities with this hobby as well. Until then, I'll probably make some more posts that seasoned veterans will roll their eyes at but still offer objective advice to 

[EagleRJO]

On 8/25/2022 at 2:29 PM, Nomad_Romad said:

I'll probably make some more posts that seasoned veterans will roll their eyes at but still offer objective advice to 

It's kind of expected that it will happen. 

Btw, what is the verdict on the Mankiller coins? Damaged as it appears?

[Nomad_Romad]

On 8/25/2022 at 2:42 PM, EagleRJO said:

It's kind of expected that it will happen. 

Btw, what is the verdict on the Mankiller coins? Damaged as it appears?

I'm waiting on the digital microscope to arrive today, and if others would like I can post some more pictures. I also ordered a jewelers loupe, but that will not get in for a few more days. I think the consensus is just damaged. 

[Lem E]

I would say that it is mostly hits and damage from falling into the bins. We are talking about thousands upon thousands of coins falling on top of each other. Reeding on new coins can be fairly sharp and do some damage. My theory on the “starburst “ on the face is maybe that the point of the star on another coin hit her right in the face while falling into the bin. Like I said, just a theory. Maybe some small die chips in the mix. 

[Fenntucky Mike]

In speaking with a YN a few weeks ago they informed me of the "Wilma Mankiller quarters that were worth BIG MONEY", I naturally downplayed it and asked them to bring the coins by next time and I'll take a look. I was going to do a little digging on these supposed high dollar Mankiller quarters but haven't had the time, but in seeing this post I was hoping there was going to be something here but... I fully expect to be looking at about $3.25 worth of quarters, similar to the OP's, in the very near future and having a nice chat with a YN. 

Did a quick search and apparently quite a few coins have been found with retained cuds? Maybe I'll get to see something legit, but I doubt it. 

[AAntunez]

Those "scratches" on her face and the star are definitely some type of error because they keep showing up on different coins. I purchased 20 rolls and have found several of the exact coins with the exact same markings on the face, star and some of the letters. So far I have 7 and have five more rolls to search. I am still doing research to try to find out exactly what is going on.

[GBrad]

On 9/21/2022 at 11:25 PM, AAntunez said:

Those "scratches" on her face and the star are definitely some type of error because they keep showing up on different coins

Welcome to the forum AA.  While this is an older post, I can appreciate your comment.  Rest assured that the "scratches" on the face and the star are just that, scratches, they are not errors.  You have many extremely knowledgeable experts here on this forum and they will tell it like it is as they already have.  If you have found similar coins, with the same marks and scratches, then it is either a form of die damage or PSD, which neither carry a premium. The high relief points on a coin, as mentioned already, are very susceptible to damage after they were struck.    

[Nomad_Romad]

On 9/22/2022 at 12:02 AM, GBrad said:

Welcome to the forum AA.  While this is an older post, I can appreciate your comment.  Rest assured that the "scratches" on the face and the star are just that, scratches, they are not errors.  You have many extremely knowledgeable experts here on this forum and they will tell it like it is as they already have.  If you have found similar coins, with the same marks and scratches, then it is either a form of die damage or PSD, which neither carry a premium. The high relief points on a coin, as mentioned already, are very susceptible to damage after they were struck.    

Definitely, I learned a lot on here since making that post. What I learned is that most of the damage in my previous photos were simply coin roller damage. As I opened up more rolls of different coins this became a common theme. 

[RWB]

Awful design. Cluttered, flat lettering.....

[Just Bob]

On 9/22/2022 at 12:14 AM, Nomad_Romad said:

Definitely, I learned a lot on here since making that post. What I learned is that most of the damage in my previous photos were simply coin roller damage. As I opened up more rolls of different coins this became a common theme. 

Thank you for coming back and posting that. It's very helpful to newcomers, and it's nice to see that you were able to realize exactly what you had.

[VKurtB]

I of course have my uncirculated set Mankiller quarters, but last week I received a stunning D mint one in change. Weird. I never got a D of either of the first two, but here my first Mankiller is one. Gorgeous unmarked star, dripping with incredible brightness. It rivals the ones in the uncirc set. 

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

What album is everyone using for this set?  I usually go with Dansco, but I do not believe any exist for this series (yet).

[VKurtB]

On 9/22/2022 at 12:43 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

What album is everyone using for this set?  I usually go with Dansco, but I do not believe any exist for this series (yet).

My understanding is that Dansco has these in process. If it takes much longer, I may give up and get a higher end green Littleton. I saw nice albums at the ANA show, and I think they were Whitman. 

[EagleRJO]

On 9/22/2022 at 1:14 AM, Nomad_Romad said:

What I learned is that most of the damage in my previous photos were simply coin roller damage.

@Nomad_Romad Not much of the damage on your Mankillers appears to be from coin rollers/wrappers which typically shows up as circular marks or gouges near the rim of the coin, with a few examples attached. This happens when the metal tang closes on the wrapper up against the coin on the end of the roll and then the machine spins the roll to crimp the wrapper causing the damage. It is supposed to be light contact pressure with a rounded tang, but it gets worn down to an edge over time. Most of the damage on the Mankillers appears to be contact marks at high points that are more exposed, which I assume you verified cut into the coin leaving protruding adjacent original surfaces. Also note that the semi-circle on the obverse at the bottom of the Mankillers is part of the coin design.

How Coins are Damaged by Rolling, Wrapping, and Crimping Machines (coincommunity.com)

I am still trying to get more comfortable with coin errors vs damage, and at least I find it helpful to envision exactly how the marks on a coin may have occurred and do some digging related to the type so that the next time I see it the light bulb goes on right away or I can eliminate it as a possibility.  Your milage may vary. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by EagleRJO

[EagleRJO]

On 9/22/2022 at 1:43 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

What album is everyone using for this set?  I usually go with Dansco, but I do not believe any exist for this series (yet).

I really like the Littleton albums, and I use them for all of the quarter series. They are similar, but I like the 3-ring binder style of the albums, and the labels on the spine which look nice and are easy to find with the albums side-by-side in a bookcase. But I don't think I would switch to another style that looked differently for a given type of coin. Like all my dollar and half dollar sets are in Lighthouse Encap slab/capsule albums.

[Also, I do not believe that the 2026 quarters will be for U.S. Women as originally proposed and as indicated in the Dansco store, as there is now supposed to be a special issue of coins marking the 250th anniversary of our independence that year. The Littleton album also is for 2022 to 2025. I am sure all the female coin collectors are upset. ]

Proposal for 2026 commemoratives calls for unusual coins (coinworld.com)

Edited September 22, 2022 by EagleRJO