Puzzled by Innovation Dollars?? 2 2

[Mr.Bill347]

Ok so I have been purchasing the INNOVATION dollar (OK  don't ask me why), but when the 2022 Vermont ID was sold, I saw multiple sets of P and D with Position A and Position B???

So I examined the P position A and B and Ill be darned if I see any differences, even in the EDGE inclusion. BTW is the the first coin with an edge incused year and mint mark?

 I am not sure I can get all the photos in the post but the first three are shots of the P position A and B plus the edge inclusions. Others are microscope shots. Can someone explain this to me?  

Thanks in advance.

[Woods020]

Position A and B on these and Sacs and presidential dollars have to do with the edge lettering application. 
 

Position A- edge lettering reads upside down if the obverse is facing up. 
 

Position B - edge lettering reads normally if the obverse is facing up. 
 

it has nothing to do with the position of the mint mark. 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Woods020
Initially answered using Presidential dollars as example

[Mr.Bill347]

Outstanding Help Woods !. I matched the lettering but didn't check the Obverse reverse! That is definately IT.

 

Thank You!

[Woods020]

Also no this is not the first. Sacajawea and presidential dollars are the same. Earlier coinage, for example capped bust half dollars from 1807-1836 had lettered edges. 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Woods020

[Zebo]

Learn something everyday. I haven’t really looked at these dollars before. Not really a modern type of guy. I think the quarter program really soured me on the new stuff - too many to really care I guess.

[Mr.Bill347]

Zebo I agree, the only reason I started these ugly brass “nickels” was that I don’t collect Sacs and Pres dollars and these seemed unique enough that they may offer a slight bit of rarity some day. Not a whole lot different than the state quarter program as each states primary innovation is featured. Still a brass nickel in my mind. But I have gotten them all so far and might as well finish them now.

[RWB]

I'm puzzled about why the "Innovation Dollars" are so prosaic.

Edited May 8, 2022 by RWB

[Mr.Bill347]

They are not Roger! Just like collecting marbles. 😂 

On 5/8/2022 at 1:01 PM, RWB said:

I'm puzzled about why the "Innovation Dollars" are so prosaic.

 

[J P M]

I have had many a chance to pick up these coins and I just can't bring myself to buy one. Sorry Bill they just look too fake like play money. 

[Mr.Bill347]

No offense JP, I call them brass nickels!

[RWB]

On 5/8/2022 at 1:20 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

They are not Roger! Just like collecting marbles.

The designs are bereft of innovation and originality....merely cheap commercial illustrations for cereal boxes.

[VKurtB]

On 5/8/2022 at 1:29 PM, RWB said:

The designs are bereft of innovation and originality....merely cheap commercial illustrations for cereal boxes.

Brought to you by the braintrust at the United States Mint. Reaching for mediocrity since 1792. 
 

And here you thought Euro coinage had achieved the world’s nadir for coin design. 

Edited May 8, 2022 by VKurtB

[tj96]

I believe the edge lettering on all these small dollars (A & B positions) are completely random strikes and of no significance to the coin.  Like Woods said; some are up and some are down.  

Edited May 8, 2022 by tj96

[Mr.Bill347]

Just like days of our lives some up some down.

On 5/8/2022 at 3:09 PM, tj96 said:

I believe the edge lettering on all these small dollars (A & B positions) are completely random strikes and of no significance to the coin.  Like Woods; some are up and some are down.  

 

[VKurtB]

On 5/8/2022 at 2:11 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

Just like days of our lives some up some down.

 

In ALL business strike or circulation strike small dollars since 2007, when edge printing began, whether a coin is Type A or B is random. This is because the edge is done AFTER the coin is struck. Not so on the proofs, for which the edge lettering is done DURING the striking. 

[Conder101]

And the proofs are all position B.  r at least they were on the early President and NA dollars.   I won't guarantee it didn't change some time late, and i haven't checked the later ones.

[VKurtB]

On 5/13/2022 at 7:46 PM, Conder101 said:

And the proofs are all position B.  r at least they were on the early President and NA dollars.   I won't guarantee it didn't change some time late, and i haven't checked the later ones.

That would depend on whether they’ve ever swapped the anvil die vs. the hammer die. I’ve never read anything about that. I just received my George H W Bush Coins and Chronicles set and can confirm the reverse proof dollar is Position B. 

Edited May 14, 2022 by VKurtB

[Conder101]

Yes an in the early years the Hammer was the obverse die.  They would not be likely to swap hammer and anvil during the because the dies are shaped differently and by not changing during the year you don't have to worry about pairing two obv or two reverse dies.  A swap between years could be possible but I'm not aware of them doing it.  But I will admit I haven't looked to see if a change was made.  Your confirmation of the Bush coin as having position B would suggest they didn't change (or they chaged and then changed back.)