In search of Help with a 1968 s proof Pennie ddo. 1 1

[Anthony420]

So I got this 1968 s proof Pennie and I scoped it and matched the rpm-001 and then I noticed its got some extremely strong doubling on the obverse and I can't put my finger on that ddo it is. Any help apricated.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Anthony420

[J P M]

The 1968 S is a very common Mechanical Doubling coin. There are a bunch out there that have MD everywhere. here is a link to the last ones we posted here .

 

[FlyingAl]

As stated, your proof cent has mechanical doubling, created oftentimes when the planchet is not fully in the coining chamber when the coin is struck, leading to the die dragging across the surface of the coin as it is struck and resulting in what you see there. No premium is associated with MD.

Edited April 17, 2022 by FlyingAl

[Coinbuf]

Your coin has strike doubling, sometimes also called mechanical doubling, this is not a DDO and while sometimes interesting strike doubling does not add value to the coin.

[Anthony420]

On 4/15/2022 at 10:05 PM, Coinbuf said:

Your coin has strike doubling, sometimes also called mechanical doubling, this is not a DDO and while sometimes interesting strike doubling does not add value to the coin.

Ok so I'm confused on how you can tell if it's a ddo or md could you explain that to me I'm completely new to varietys and errors 

[RWB]

On 4/16/2022 at 10:39 AM, Anthony420 said:

Ok so I'm confused on how you can tell if it's a ddo or md could you explain that to me I'm completely new to varietys and errors 

Go here: http://www.vamworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2647

...or search the NGC site for a similar explanation.

[Oldhoopster]

On 4/16/2022 at 10:39 AM, Anthony420 said:

Ok so I'm confused on how you can tell if it's a ddo or md could you explain that to me I'm completely new to varietys and errors 

Another good explanation of MD and the characteristics of true doubling.  

https://www.doubleddie.com/144801.html

Https://www.doubleddie.com/58222.html

 

 

[Coinbuf]

On 4/16/2022 at 7:39 AM, Anthony420 said:

Ok so I'm confused on how you can tell if it's a ddo or md could you explain that to me I'm completely new to varietys and errors 

It is actually very simple, notice how the doubling on your coin is lower in relief and flat shelf like.  That is strike doubling, on a true doubled die the doubling will be at or almost at the same height.   Read the links provided above, and as you are new before you start collecting you need to educate yourself on the process of how coins are made.   When you have the knowledge of how a coin is made you will not have to guess if you have found a doubled die coin.   In addition to the links above here is a great visual that clearly shows the differences between a doubled die and the common worthless strike doubling.

 

[VKurtB]

This stuff really annoys me. People “find” things before they even know what they’re looking for. How does this keep happening? “Strike It Rich With Your Pocket Change”? Please. 

[Anthony420]

On 4/16/2022 at 12:23 PM, VKurtB said:

This stuff really annoys me. People “find” things before they even know what they’re looking for. How does this keep happening? “Strike It Rich With Your Pocket Change”? Please. 

Ok and your annoying. What's your point dude.we we're all in my spot at once to. You act like you was boren knowing everything. And I never said I was trying to strick it Rich of off Pocket change. I was simply asking a question. Looking for help and any knowledge that I could gather. It's people like you that make this hobby a dead thing. Stop being ignort AF and if you dont have anything to say to help out stay off my post.

[VKurtB]

On 4/16/2022 at 2:33 PM, Anthony420 said:

Ok and your annoying. What's your point dude.we we're all in my spot at once to. You act like you was boren knowing everything. And I never said I was trying to strick it Rich of off Pocket change. I was simply asking a question. Looking for help and any knowledge that I could gather. It's people like you that make this hobby a dead thing. Stop being ignort AF and if you dont have anything to say to help out stay off my post.

I started in 1963 at the age of eight. And I read BOOKS on coins. I didn’t just whip out a magnifying device and pretend to search for things. At age 11 I earned the Boy Scout merit badge for coins. We didn’t have shortcuts. My first Red Book was the 1964 edition, and I still have it. 

Edited April 16, 2022 by VKurtB

[Anthony420]

Well that's funny cause what do you think I'm doing dude. Just cause I got a microscope doesn't mean  I'm pretending to serch for thing's. It to help me see better and I'm sure there's million's of others out there that use them to. "How do you think they got there pictures for the books" and I have a red book and if you had one to then you know that they don't show  all the varitys. I'm not just some kid that's trying to make it Rich I'm trying to learn. So stay off my Post dude it's people like you that ruin it for generations to come. And honestly it sounds like your Life collection didn't work out cause your extremely salty.

[RWB]

If we can skip back to Coinbuf's informative post --- It takes very little to create mechanical doubling, so it is very common and generally accepted by modern world mints. Under certain circumstances it can appear very prominent and is a constant area of confusion for new collectors.

A "doubled die" ("Hub doubling" in the illustration) occurs during manufacturing of a working die from the year's master hub. Before more recent improvements in die making technology, it took at least 2 blows from the steel hub to transfer all its detail to a working die. Many denominations took up to 6 blows. (Really "squeezes" in a hydraulic press.) In between blows, the die had to be softened by heat treatment. If the first and all following blows were perfectly aligned, then the die would make normal looking coins. But if the first blow and any of those that followed were very slightly misaligned, then a second set of details was pressed into the die. This usually was visible in the peripheral lettering where displacement was the greatest.

The accidental impression of two (or more) slightly our of register images is what produced the "notch" shown in the illustration.

Hope that helps a little. Ask away if you have questions.

 

[Anthony420]

On 4/16/2022 at 6:36 PM, RWB said:

If we can skip back to Coinbuf's informative post --- It takes very little to create mechanical doubling, so it is very common and generally accepted by modern world mints. Under certain circumstances it can appear very prominent and is a constant area of confusion for new collectors.

A "doubled die" ("Hub doubling" in the illustration) occurs during manufacturing of a working die from the year's master hub. Before more recent improvements in die making technology, it took at least 2 blows from the steel hub to transfer all its detail to a working die. Many denominations took up to 6 blows. (Really "squeezes" in a hydraulic press.) In between blows, the die had to be softened by heat treatment. If the first and all following blows were perfectly aligned, then the die would make normal looking coins. But if the first blow and any of those that followed were very slightly misaligned, then a second set of details was pressed into the die. This usually was visible in the peripheral lettering where displacement was the greatest.

The accidental impression of two (or more) slightly our of register images is what produced the "notch" shown in the illustration.

Hope that helps a little. Ask away if you have questions.

 

Ok I see now. Thank you for answering my question. So just to make sure I got it correctly you would see raised elements and notching if it was a true double die. But if it's "I don't know what else to call it" but Ghost doubling  like in my pictures it md? 

[VKurtB]

On 4/16/2022 at 7:51 PM, Anthony420 said:

Ok I see now. Thank you for answering my question. So just to make sure I got it correctly you would see raised elements and notching if it was a true double die. But if it's "I don't know what else to call it" but Ghost doubling  like in my pictures it md? 

Yes, and every book on the subject makes this painfully clear. 

[Anthony420]

On 4/16/2022 at 6:58 PM, VKurtB said:

Yes, and every book on the subject makes this painfully clear. 

Dude seriously get off my post your ignorance is ridiculous. And shows alot for your age. 

[Anthony420]

https://doubleddie.com/814681.html

Wexler DDO-007

I think I have identified it as the ddo-007  

[VKurtB]

On 4/16/2022 at 8:32 PM, Anthony420 said:

Dude seriously get off my post your ignorance is ridiculous. And shows alot for your age. 

Now check if anyone else believes the 1968-S 1¢ Pr WDDO-007 exists. Wexler sees things nobody else thinks are real. The “LI” on 007 are obviously machine doubling. 

Edited April 17, 2022 by VKurtB

[Hoghead515]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:38 PM, Anthony420 said:

https://doubleddie.com/814681.html

Wexler DDO-007

I think I have identified it as the ddo-007  

Thats not it. Thats just strike doubling on the one in the original post. It was struck with an extremely worn die giving it that effect. 

[Woods020]

I agree with others I just see MD. This can be one of the more challenging thing for newer collectors to learn the difference between MD and die doubling. Some are blatantly obvious, and some are more nuanced like added thickness for example. You were given some great resources. At some point I’m going to make a short video on this, but haven’t gotten around to it. I think it would help a lot of new collectors to get a thorough explanation with visual examples. 

[VKurtB]

Anyway, it’s not spelled “pennie”; it’s spelled “cent”. If it were a “pennie”, it would be a “penny”. 

[J P M]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:38 PM, Anthony420 said:

https://doubleddie.com/814681.html

Wexler DDO-007

I think I have identified it as the ddo-007  

Everyone is very knowledgeable here and always try to help. I know your coin is something that looks similar Anthony. It is not easy when Identifying coins, To try to match up a coin with Wexler or Verity Vista or NGC you also have to match up all the markers they post to be in the same ball park?   

Edited April 17, 2022 by J P Mashoke

[Anthony420]

Well apparently old man cranky up there doesn't think wexlers is real but I have everything that matches up to it and people over on coin talk agrees that's it's the ddo-007. So I don't get why everyone has to be 's here when I'm just trying to learn and my bad about my spelling dude but just so you know I have a spelling disorder 😂 so it doesn't bother me your making fun of it. And thank you to everyone who was nice enough to try to help. 

[VKurtB]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:11 PM, Anthony420 said:

Well apparently old man cranky up there doesn't think wexlers is real but I have everything that matches up to it and people over on coin talk agrees that's it's the ddo-007. So I don't get why everyone has to be 's here when I'm just trying to learn and my bad about my spelling dude but just so you know I have a spelling disorder 😂 so it doesn't bother me your making fun of it. And thank you to everyone who was nice enough to try to help. 

Yup, and I had a cerebral hemorrhage 13 years ago and have survived 2 bouts with cancer. We all have our own challenges. FWIW, I think your coin may well be a Wexler 007. It’s just that I disagree that the 007 is a real DDO. 

Edited April 17, 2022 by VKurtB

[RWB]

On 4/16/2022 at 8:51 PM, Anthony420 said:

Ok I see now. Thank you for answering my question. So just to make sure I got it correctly you would see raised elements and notching if it was a true double die. But if it's "I don't know what else to call it" but Ghost doubling  like in my pictures it md? 

The doubling commonly seen is caused by small persistent mechanical problems with coin presses and planchet feeding mechanisms. If you spin a quarter on a hard flat surface you'll notice that as it looses momentum, it begins to wobble, then fall while making multiple contacts with the surface. When a coin planchet does this in the final instant before struck by dies, parts of the design will "smear" very slightly resulting in "mechanical doubling" on parts of the coin but not others. There are a great many moving parts in a coin press, so identifying the specific cause can become quite complicated.

[VKurtB]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:16 PM, VKurtB said:

Yup, and I had a cerebral hemorrhage 13 years ago and have survived 2 bouts with cancer. We all have our own challenges. FWIW, I think your coin may well be a Wexler 007. It’s just that I disagree that the 007 is a real DDO. 

For what it’s worth, I checked which 1968-S proof Wexler varieties NGC recognizes, and unless I misread the info here in this site, NGC does NOT recognize the 007, even if you DO pony up the extra 15 bucks. Some of Wexler’s varieties are EXTREMELY controversial, and the 007 is one of those. Wexler is a “fanboi”, not a neutral observer. 

Edited April 18, 2022 by VKurtB