Varieties Kennedy
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I have a ms 67 1964 d type 1 reverse straight G with broken rays that is an obvious type 1 proof reverse. NGC recognizes the proof type1 straight G reverse, why not the Ms version when it's recognized in the coneca Master listings?  This coin can be viewed in my lonesome dove collection, 1964 to present, circulation and proofs, including varieties. 

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On 4/6/2022 at 12:56 PM, J. Morris said:

I have a ms 67 1964 d type 1 reverse straight G with broken rays that is an obvious type 1 proof reverse. NGC recognizes the proof type1 straight G reverse, why not the Ms version when it's recognized in the coneca Master listings?  This coin can be viewed in my lonesome dove collection, 1964 to present, circulation and proofs, including varieties. 

NGC is under no obligation to recognize anyone else’s variety list. Thank gawd they haven’t completely drunk the Wexler Kool-Aid. 

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If Your going to attribute one variety over another, then attribution is a completely arbitrary and capricious!

 

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  • Member: Seasoned Veteran

This question arose several years ago, and I consulted with James Wiles (VarietyVista) about the MS striking of the Type 1 Reverse. He told me that it's not rare. In fact, the proof edition is not rare either, but it forms a minority of the proofs and is popular. The same can't be said for the MS version.

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On 4/7/2022 at 3:36 PM, DWLange said:

This question arose several years ago, and I consulted with James Wiles (VarietyVista) about the MS striking of the Type 1 Reverse. He told me that it's not rare. In fact, the proof edition is not rare either, but it forms a minority of the proofs and is popular. The same can't be said for the MS version.

PICA0026.thumb.jpg.a4fc8b3d5bd2d57273358472d6812648.jpg

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On 4/7/2022 at 1:01 PM, J. Morris said:

If Your going to attribute one variety over another, then attribution is a completely arbitrary and capricious!

 

Capricious seems rather over the top don't you think.    Regardless of what you or I think NGC is free to run their business in the way they feel is best.   It sounds like from the explanation given by Mr. Lange that it was reviewed and the decision was made to not include it based on the information about this variety in MS.

Certainly you are free to check around and have the coin encapsulated by another TPG if there is one that recognizes this variety.

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Here is another anomaly. This is a 1964 proof 69 straight G, broken G, with ddo and ddr. Very unique! Of the tens of thousands of Kennedy proofs I've gone through I've never seen anything like it. I'm on the road now, and don't have any of the ddo ddr pics. I'll make a note to send you at another time. You will notice the doubling on F G.

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On 4/7/2022 at 3:01 PM, J. Morris said:

If Your going to attribute one variety over another, then attribution is a completely arbitrary and capricious!

 

No, I disagree. We’ve gone variety NUTZ in this hobby. Too many minor everything. NGC deserves a standing ovation for standing athwart this obnoxious trend. 

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I wouldn't call a ddo ddr split G, straight G, with broken rays,minor.

On 4/7/2022 at 3:56 PM, J. Morris said:

PICA0026.thumb.jpg.a4fc8b3d5bd2d57273358472d6812648.jpg

 

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On 4/7/2022 at 6:19 PM, J. Morris said:

I wouldn't call a ddo ddr split G, straight G, with broken rays,minor.

 

Maybe if it really is all those things - a claim that is not presently in evidence. 

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On 4/7/2022 at 3:04 PM, J. Morris said:

through I've never seen anything like it.

If this is true, then you have no doubling. True die doubling will appear on multiple coins and you should have several other examples in the "tens of thousands" you've went through. I doubt such a coin like the one you claim you have truly exists. 

Your coin is only a straight G to my eyes.

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There are numerous varieties with very few examples known! I would have had to find this example in the same run, which I did not! I'm sure there maybe other examples.that have not been found. Ana governor Michael Ellis found it very interesting ( at the national money show)  and thought I should submit it to coneca.I just thought maybe someone else had some input into the straight G and the split G.

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On 4/7/2022 at 4:01 PM, J. Morris said:

If Your going to attribute one variety over another, then attribution is a completely arbitrary and capricious!

 

That sir would be one very slippery slope. EVERY SINGLE VARIETY imaginable would be mind boggling. Honestly who in their right mind cares about any and every minuscule nuance?
 

Generally speaking, and I’m not saying it’s you, people today want to claim a variety on everything and want it to be rare so they can have a valuable coin. They don’t want to put the time and effort into building a collection to be proud of, they want to hit it rich out of the gate. That’s not the way it works and will never be the way it works. If that ever becomes the case this hobby is dead. Plain and simple. 

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On 4/7/2022 at 7:22 PM, Woods020 said:

That sir would be one very slippery slope. EVERY SINGLE VARIETY imaginable would be mind boggling. Honestly who in their right mind cares about any and every minuscule nuance?
 

Generally speaking, and I’m not saying it’s you, people today want to claim a variety on everything and want it to be rare so they can have a valuable coin. They don’t want to put the time and effort into building a collection to be proud of, they want to hit it rich out of the gate. That’s not the way it works and will never be the way it works. If that ever becomes the case this hobby is dead. Plain and simple. 

My Kennedy, lonesome dove collection speaks for itself

On 4/7/2022 at 7:16 PM, Woods020 said:

I bet you can’t say that description 3 times fast…..

 

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On 4/7/2022 at 8:38 PM, J. Morris said:

My Kennedy, lonesome dove collection speaks for itself

 

I’m not down playing your collection. Your comments are all encompassing across the entirety of numismatics. 

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