Lem E Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) I acquired a coin recently, and upon further inspection I noticed that a spot on the coin that I thought was carbon turned out to be what I think is a small detached lamination. My question is should this coin have graded as high as it did? Should a lamination or planchet flaw bring the grade down? I am going to supply pictures of the coin and some close ups of the spot. Any comments or advice is welcome, and thanks in advance. The spot in question is on the obverse of the coin on the cheekbone. If you think this is something other than a lamination, please comment. These are pictures taken with my phone through a regular microscope of the spot. I hope they are sufficient enough. It was not easy. Edited January 30, 2022 by Lem E Remove cert# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 From the photos, there appear to be too many scrapes, especially the one on Jefferson's cheek< and the dark spot to support anything higher than MS65 or 64....certainly not 68 with stars & stripes, or buttons & bows. Lem E 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 It does appear to be a planchet flaw or a struck-through. I am not sure if that affects the technical grade, but it does affect the eye appeal, in my opinion. Not trying to low-rate your coin, but I have to agree with Roger about the 68. The toning is quite pretty, and the surface is very well preserved, but I think it is over graded. I wouldn't go as low as 65, but I would call it a 66 or 66+ by today's standards. Lem E 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohawk Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) Hi Lem E. I'm with Bob and Roger....it shouldn't have gotten a 68. I like it at MS65* or possible MS65+*. I think it still deserves the star as the toning is quite appealing, IMHO. Edited January 30, 2022 by Mohawk Lem E 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoghead515 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) Man I hate to see that have a spot on it. Thats a heart breaker. Still a very beautiful Jefferson. Edited January 30, 2022 by Hoghead515 Lem E 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) I think no one wants to grade a Nickel 69 or 70 for some reason? What salts my butt is they give out 69 and 70 all day long for the jacked up ASE's I love the nickel the toning is real nice and that might be what pumped up the grade Lem. It is hard to find a nickel without some kind of ding or scratch I know. It looks like the chip has been there from the start and a 68* is a real generous grade for this piece. Edited January 30, 2022 by J P Mashoke Lem E 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenntucky Mike Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 The edges don't look jagged/sharp enough for a detached lamination, maybe a strike through or other planchet flaw that partially remained after striking. Lem E 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Zyskowski Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Lem. It’s this kinda stuff that drives me crazy. Beautiful coin way over graded. Stuff happens. I’m not ready to comment on the flaw, so I’ll wait as there seems to be some good thoughts already. I will say I’d much rather have the problem you have ,than an ASE Pf 70 milk up in the slab. 🤨 Lem E 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoghead515 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Are you gonna return it? I hate that brother. Thats a serious coin and some serious $$ Hope everything works out. Lem E 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBrad Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Beautiful coin Lem! Sorry for the spot on the cheekbone. I think I can see the molecular an atomic structure within the alloy mixture with those pics!!! Those are some incredibly clear and excellent close ups. I'm with the others on a struck through. I'm along the lines of Fenntucky Mike about whatever it is it has remained on the coin after the strike. Lem E 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) Interesting issue, from the full coin and slab shot I would have said small lamination or a minor planchet flaw. But the close up seems to show the metal pushed to the viewers right creating a very tiny ridge of metal from a hit. As to your question about how high a coin can/should grade with a small defect the simple answer is that a coin can grade all the way to MS69 as only an MS70 requires perfection; or at least as perfect as we can get from the minting process. The key is where that defect is and how much it affects the eye appeal, I can see why this coin was given the grade it was and at the same time I can see the argument against the high grade. You will not find that many Jefferson Nickels with that "look", it for sure has what it takes both from the color and luster to receive that 68 grade. So, the question is how much do the minor ticks and nicks (many of those I believe were planchet marks that did not fully strike out) and the cheek mark affect the grade. As we can see NGC felt that most or all these were present at the time of striking and chose not to let those affect their thought on the grade. In the end it comes down to are you comfortable with the price you paid and does that match your determination of the value of the coin. Edited January 30, 2022 by Coinbuf Lem E 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woods020 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 These are hard as heck to grade. For me atleast. I’ve never seen a Jefferson nickel I didn’t think was over graded. A lot of imperfection seems to be the norm with this issue. I’ll say two things about it. 1. This is the most eye appealing Jefferson nickel (war or not) I have ever seen by far. 2 Any other series I would say not only the area you mention, but also the cut in the cheek and the reverse Monticello would not warrant a 68. Or even close to it for a few grades. But again grading these seems to be a hugely subjective mystery. I can’t say it is/is not over graded for sure. Lem E 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lem E Posted January 30, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) I would like to start by thanking all of you for your opinions, advice, and observations. I appreciate, value, and respect each members input. As much as I like this coin, I don’t think it is the right piece for me. After pouring over this coin for hours, I am convinced that it will be returned. While I do think it is a beautiful piece, there are a few things I can’t get past. As we all know, it is hard to judge and grade a coin by pictures alone. Photos of coins will usually bring out things we don’t see by the naked eye. I of course have the advantage of having the coin in hand, and it is a very nice piece. In my unprofessional opinion I would put this coin at a 67. It has clean surfaces, good luster and a fairly good strike with minimal marks and of course the color is outstanding. I agree that this coin got a grade bump from the color. Unfortunately the marks are mostly confined to the face of Jefferson and are in a main focal point. As much as I wanted to love this piece, I can’t get past the distracting marks. Maybe I am too picky and I am quite hard on my coins. For the grade and price point, there should be no question in my mind, but there is. It’s like seeing the most beautiful girl in the world and then you see her smile and she is missing a tooth. Once again, thank you all for the input. The hunt continues. Have a wonderful day. Edited January 30, 2022 by Lem E Coinbuf, James Zyskowski, Hoghead515 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohawk Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 1/30/2022 at 5:06 PM, Lem E said: I would like to start by thanking all of you for your opinions, advice, and observations. I appreciate, value, and respect each members input. As much as I like this coin, I don’t think it is the right piece for me. After pouring over this coin for hours, I am convinced that it will be returned. While I do think it is a beautiful piece, there are a few things I can’t get past. As we all know, it is hard to judge and grade a coin by pictures alone. Photos of coins will usually bring out things we don’t see by the naked eye. I of course have the advantage of having the coin in hand, and it is a very nice piece. In my unprofessional opinion I would put this coin at a 67. It has clean surfaces, good luster and a fairly good strike with minimal marks and of course the color is outstanding. I agree that this coin got a grade bump from the color. Unfortunately the marks are mostly confined to the face of Jefferson and are in a main focal point. As much as I wanted to love this piece, I can’t get past the distracting marks. Maybe I am too picky and I am quite hard on my coins. For the grade and price point, there should be no question in my mind, but there is. It’s like seeing the most beautiful girl in the world and then you see her smile and she is missing a tooth. Once again, thank you all for the input. The hunt continues. Have a wonderful day. Sometimes, a coin just isn't the right one for you, Lem E. And there's nothing wrong with admitting that and taking action based on that decision. I had that happen to me a few times, but one stands out in particular. It was an 1894-A German New Guinea 2 Mark. It was an attractive coin, but it had been cleaned. As much as I tried, all I could see on the coin was the cleaning and I eventually ended up selling it. There's nothing worse collecting-wise than having a coin that makes your heart sink every time you look at it. It's probably a good idea to return the coin and keep searching for the right coin for you....and it is out there!! Best of luck on your continued hunt! Lem E and James Zyskowski 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hoghead515 Posted January 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 1/30/2022 at 5:06 PM, Lem E said: I would like to start by thanking all of you for your opinions, advice, and observations. I appreciate, value, and respect each members input. As much as I like this coin, I don’t think it is the right piece for me. After pouring over this coin for hours, I am convinced that it will be returned. While I do think it is a beautiful piece, there are a few things I can’t get past. As we all know, it is hard to judge and grade a coin by pictures alone. Photos of coins will usually bring out things we don’t see by the naked eye. I of course have the advantage of having the coin in hand, and it is a very nice piece. In my unprofessional opinion I would put this coin at a 67. It has clean surfaces, good luster and a fairly good strike with minimal marks and of course the color is outstanding. I agree that this coin got a grade bump from the color. Unfortunately the marks are mostly confined to the face of Jefferson and are in a main focal point. As much as I wanted to love this piece, I can’t get past the distracting marks. Maybe I am too picky and I am quite hard on my coins. For the grade and price point, there should be no question in my mind, but there is. It’s like seeing the most beautiful girl in the world and then you see her smile and she is missing a tooth. Once again, thank you all for the input. The hunt continues. Have a wonderful day. That my friend is why you got one of the nicest sets in the world. One of the nicest sets Ive ever laid eyes on. Some absolute gems. I think most people on here will agree with me. GBrad, Lem E, J P M and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
