So how are the restrikes of the FSNC being received by you guys and who collects them? 0

[coinsarefun]

I have the original Felix Schlag nickel strikes by the FSNC but Ron Landis was contacted by another Nickel club to do some

restrikes without the FSNC on the obverse. Ha also made available some struck on nickel planchets, copper and gold.

I have a collage below showing what I have plus I included the other competitor along with a Jefferson commemorative, just because it made a cool wallpaper.

 

I’ll upload an image soon. Having trouble doing in on an iPad 

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by coinsarefun

[Henri Charriere]

Very colorful collage! 

[Lem E]

On 1/10/2022 at 1:40 PM, coinsarefun said:

I have the original Felix Schlag nickel strikes by the FSNC but Ron Landis was contacted by another Nickel club to do some

restrikes without the FSNC on the obverse. Ha also made available some struck on nickel planchets, copper and gold.

I have a collage below showing what I have plus I included the other competitor along with a Jefferson commemorative, just because it made a cool wallpaper.

 

I’ll upload an image soon. Having trouble doing in on an iPad 

 

 

 

I have wanted one of the Landis Schlag nickel strikes for a while now and just recently ordered the #14 gold 2021 piece. Can’t wait to get it in hand. That is a very nice collection you have there. Quite an impressive group.   

[RWB]

Unless they all include the word "COPY" they are all counterfeit coins.

[Lem E]

On 1/10/2022 at 3:58 PM, RWB said:

Unless they all include the word "COPY" they are all counterfeit coins.

I thought that “COPY” only needed to be on exact replicas of circulating coinage. This design was never used on real coins. Is it still considered a counterfeit?

[Buffalo Head]

If the coin never existed how can it be a counterfeit?  Stamp COPY of what?

[Henri Charriere]

I believe dimensions, weight, etc., have to be taken into consideration.  I have an 1857 Flying Eagle, an exact copy, w/o the "COPY," probably because it was 3" in diameter, and an antiqued, brass replica.  I have a gorgeous St. Gaudens... 😍  ... but it's rendered in a 2-oz. .999 silver planchet. Not legal tender, but not stamped "COPY". 

[RWB]

On 1/10/2022 at 5:16 PM, Lem E said:

I thought that “COPY” only needed to be on exact replicas of circulating coinage. This design was never used on real coins. Is it still considered a counterfeit?

No. If a thing is in the likeness or similitude of a coin, or includes a legal tender denomination and country of origin, it is a counterfeit. The making of it is prima facie fraudulent intent. Nothing else matters. Go read the US Code. It is so clear even a colorado counterfeiter can understand it. The HPA provides a legal exemption by REQUIRING the word copy be added, which converts it into a legitimate reproduction.

Note: It does not matter if the item existed as a legal coin or not. A vending machine slug is a counterfeit just as much as a fake Jefferson nickel or colorado fake half dollar, or Chinese Morgan dollar made in scrap steel.

ANA has legal standing to sue the pants off any counterfeiter, but they have neither spine nor testicles to do so....And collectors get ripped off every day.

[Henri Charriere]

Ladies, simmer down! One thing for sure, I will never be accorded the grant of immunity @RWB enjoys. I am green with envy. [No way. No way, Jose] 🐓  

[Woods020]

On 1/10/2022 at 9:13 PM, RWB said:

No. If a thing is in the likeness or similitude of a coin, or includes a legal tender denomination and country of origin, it is a counterfeit. The making of it is prima facie fraudulent intent. Nothing else matters. Go read the US Code. It is so clear even a colorado counterfeiter can understand it. The HPA provides a legal exemption by REQUIRING the word copy be added, which converts it into a legitimate reproduction.

Note: It does not matter if the item existed as a legal coin or not. A vending machine slug is a counterfeit just as much as a fake Jefferson nickel or colorado fake half dollar, or Chinese Morgan dollar made in scrap steel.

ANA has legal standing to sue the pants off any counterfeiter, but they have neither spine nor testicles to do so....And collectors get ripped off every day.

Actually Roger if you read the law this would not be covered even in the strictest of readings. While I disagree this would be a counterfeit because it isn’t what I would consider a similitude, regardless the law clearly says anything LARGER THAN 5 CENTS. 

18 U.S. Code § 485 - Coins or bars

Whoever falsely makes, forges, or counterfeits any coin or bar in resemblance or similitude of any coin of a denomination higher than 5 cents or any gold or silver bar coined or stamped at any mint or assay office of the United States, or in resemblance or similitude of any foreign gold or silver coin current in the United States or in actual use and circulation as money within the United States

[Henri Charriere]

I am familiar with Title 18 of the U.S.C., but this is the first instance this particular section was brought to my attention. Interesting!

[RWB]

HPA applies it to all things used as money, ancient and modern, foreign or domestic. Also applies to political buttons, pins and similar.

[Woods020]

On 1/11/2022 at 11:38 AM, RWB said:

HPA applies it to all things used as money, ancient and modern, foreign or domestic. Also applies to political buttons, pins and similar.

I know this is one of your personal vendettas, but I’m not sure you are reading the rules themselves. I’ll fully and readily admit I’m not a lawyer nor play one on TV, but the facts seem to be pretty clear. 
 

Even under the HPA, the following is the definition of an imitation numismatic item requiring COPY

An imitation numismatic item is “an item which purports to be, but in fact is not, an original numismatic item or which is a reproduction, copy, or counterfeit of an original numismatic item.” 15 U.S.C. 2106(4). The Hobby Act defines original numismatic items to include coins, tokens, paper money, and commemorative medals which have been part of a coinage or issue used in exchange or used to commemorate a person or event. Id. 2106(3).

To me this is clear that the intent applies to copies of “original numismatic items” , and not the coins from the OP that are clearly not original. However you may argue that this isn’t fully descriptive and my interpretation is incorrect. Fair enough I’m wrong atleast 51% of the time. Just ask my ex wife. 
 

So if we look deeper into how this has been defined it brings us to your favorite person in the world, Mr. Carr and his fantasy coins. I am not a fan myself and do worry some of his items could be deceptive. And deception is the standard to be considered. The 2016 review and update of the HPA clearly considered fantasy coins specifically.  They found that “92 F.T.C. at 223 (“[M]inor variations in dates between an original and its alleged `copy' are insufficient to deprive the latter of its status as a `reproduction, copy or counterfeit' of an `orginal numismatic item' and do not eliminate the requirement that the latter be marked with the word `Copy.' ”).

They went on to say this specifically regarding fantasy coins:

 Notably, the Commission has addressed whether coins resembling government-issued coins with date variations are subject to the Rules. In re Gold Bullion Int'l, Ltd., 92 F.T.C. 196 (1978). It concluded that such coins should be marked as a “COPY” because otherwise they could be mistaken for an original numismatic item.
 

So while fantasy coins resembling government issued-coins should clearly be marked COPY this wouldn’t be the case here in my opinion.  The restrikes from the OP are neither close enough to government-issued coins to be deceptive to a reasonable person under review, nor are they marketed in a way to deceive. They are not copies or counterfeits of “original numismatic items” because they are not of a reasonable likeness to any “original numismatic item”. The restrikes clearly took this into consideration and steps were taken to ensure compliance with the law. Where the obverse is largely similar to an original the reverse is heavily altered and vice versa. The HPA and other laws are intended to stop deceptive items and/or marketing practices that could be reasonably mistaken for “original numismatic items”, not prevent everything. 

 

[jtryka]

I have a pair of the 2002 version and I think they are swell.

[Henri Charriere]

Q.A.:  Resolution?

🐓 :  Not yet. Not sure. I will keep you posted...