What are your thoughts on this 78CC Morgan 0

[Jblindy]

I can’t tell if this is an AU or a weakly struck BU coin. I’m leaning more towards a possible AU58. Am I on the right track?  What do you more experienced guys think?

[J P M]

Is that a coin you own or want to buy ? The photo angle looks like someone is trying to hide all the damage on the coin ?

[Jblindy]

On 10/18/2021 at 6:40 AM, J P Mashoke said:

Is that a coin you own or want to buy ? The photo angle looks like someone is trying to hide all the damage on the coin ?

If it’s an AU coin, no, I wouldn’t be interested in buying it. If it’s BU, the answer is yes. 

I was thinking the same thing about the angle, considering the reverse is straight on, but it could be that they were trying to capture the most color. I’ve already asked for more pictures. 

[J P M]

On 10/18/2021 at 6:51 AM, Jblindy said:

If it’s an AU coin, no, I wouldn’t be interested in buying it. If it’s BU, the answer is yes. 

I was thinking the same thing about the angle, considering the reverse is straight on, but it could be that they were trying to capture the most color. I’ve already asked for more pictures. 

I also don't trust ungraded CC I understand they are copied a lot to my knowledge.

[Jblindy]

On 10/18/2021 at 6:56 AM, J P Mashoke said:

I also don't trust ungraded CC I understand they are copied a lot to my knowledge.

I’m inclined to agree but is the 78CC considered a rare coin at a high AU or low MS?

[JKK]

On 10/18/2021 at 4:05 AM, Jblindy said:

I’m inclined to agree but is the 78CC considered a rare coin at a high AU or low MS?

LMGTFY.

[Jblindy]

On 10/18/2021 at 10:53 AM, JKK said:

LMGTFY.

Thanks for taking the time to respond,  but I’ve already looked it up. Maybe I should have phrased my previous response better. According to Grey Sheet the 78CC “is common enough to satisfy collector demand”. It’s not until the higher grades, MS66 and above, that it gets harder to find. In my view, if it’s common enough to find in grades MS65 and below, is it worth counterfeiting?

It seems as if I have worn out my welcome here or maybe I’m not asking my questions correctly or maybe it’s the military in me that expects direct answers to direct questions and will keep digging until I’m satisfied my question has been answered. I’m not sure, but thank you all for your time. Y’all have given valuable advice and I will continue reading and learning. I have another book dedicated to Morgan dollars on the way. 

[Coinbuf]

My thoughts are that there is no way to give an accurate guess as to what this coin could grade from the two photos provided in the op.   If I had to make a call from only these two I would have be say AU, but honestly that is akin to throwing a dart onto a dartboard blindfolded and expecting to hit the bullseye.

On 10/18/2021 at 8:22 AM, Jblindy said:

It seems as if I have worn out my welcome here or maybe I’m not asking my questions correctly or maybe it’s the military in me that expects direct answers to direct questions and will keep digging until I’m satisfied my question has been answered. I’m not sure, but thank you all for your time. Y’all have given valuable advice and I will continue reading and learning. I have another book dedicated to Morgan dollars on the way. 

I do not think you have worn out your welcome, rather that you are expecting answers that cannot be given from the provided resources.   As such the members are doing what they can to help by providing the link above and their thoughts without the direct answer you seek.

And just to touch on the counterfeit issue, it is actually much easier to pass off fakes that look like circulated coins vs unc as the potential buyers may just rationalize the things that "don't look quite right" as having come from circulation as opposed to alteration.

[Alex in PA.]

On 10/18/2021 at 7:05 AM, Jblindy said:

I’m inclined to agree but is the 78CC considered a rare coin at a high AU or low MS?

No!  There were bags of 78s sold in the 1950s (By 1954, the 1878-CC was probably the most common Uncirculated dollar variety of this mint in dealers' hands. Around that time, Treasury dispersals trickled down to a virtual halt. Perhaps additional bags were deeper in the vaults and thus inaccessible. Whatever the reason, when quantities of other CC dollars started coming out in large numbers in 1955, the 1878-CC was not well represented among them. However, there were some scattered exceptions, such as the 1958 release of 1878-CC bags in Montana.

Probably, well over 100,000 coins were paid out by the Treasury from the early 1950s until toward the middle of that decade.)

[Mohawk]

Hi Jblindy!!

I don't think you've worn out your welcome at all, but the others are right....those photos are bad.  Especially the obverse one.....you really need a head on shot to discern anything with any hope of accuracy.  But as soon as I saw the photos, something about that reverse looked off to me.....I'm wondering if you either have an artificial toning situation or a cleaned coin that has toned from the chemical cleaning agent there.  At any rate, the 1878-CC is one of the easier CC's.  If it were me, I'd take a pass on this coin altogether and find another 1878-CC.  That coin concerns me.

[JKK]

On 10/18/2021 at 8:22 AM, Jblindy said:

Thanks for taking the time to respond,  but I’ve already looked it up. Maybe I should have phrased my previous response better. According to Grey Sheet the 78CC “is common enough to satisfy collector demand”. It’s not until the higher grades, MS66 and above, that it gets harder to find. In my view, if it’s common enough to find in grades MS65 and below, is it worth counterfeiting?

It seems as if I have worn out my welcome here or maybe I’m not asking my questions correctly or maybe it’s the military in me that expects direct answers to direct questions and will keep digging until I’m satisfied my question has been answered. I’m not sure, but thank you all for your time. Y’all have given valuable advice and I will continue reading and learning. I have another book dedicated to Morgan dollars on the way. 

You asked a question about rarity in certain grades. Pricing is an indicator of rarity. I'd have thought by now you knew about the NGC price guide, but if not, all right, I would provide a link that would show values in all grades. If you don't like that very direct answer, which I considered not only responsive but generous to someone who seemed unwilling to look it up himself (or even in any Red Book, which would list prices that would be obsolete but helpful in a relative sense), okay.

[Jblindy]

On 10/18/2021 at 2:28 PM, JKK said:

You asked a question about rarity in certain grades. Pricing is an indicator of rarity. I'd have thought by now you knew about the NGC price guide, but if not, all right, I would provide a link that would show values in all grades. If you don't like that very direct answer, which I considered not only responsive but generous to someone who seemed unwilling to look it up himself (or even in any Red Book, which would list prices that would be obsolete but helpful in a relative sense), okay.

Your assumption was wrong. In fact, one of my previous threads was asking why the disparity between the various price guides and I’ve made it known that I try my best to do my homework before I come here asking questions. Hell, I’ve bought the books suggested to me by members here for reading. That said, even if I read something, I’m still going to ask questions so I can get the complete story.  Trust but verify. 

I would consider a $500 MS60 coin to be at the bottom of the rarity scale, especially when I see some AU and below coins going for thousands of dollars.  I admit, the way I phrased that post was probably not the best as I ‘assumed’ y’all would know how I meant that somewhat rhetorical question to be taken. My mistake.

 

On 10/18/2021 at 2:18 PM, Mohawk said:

Hi Jblindy!!

I don't think you've worn out your welcome at all, but the others are right....those photos are bad.  Especially the obverse one.....you really need a head on shot to discern anything with any hope of accuracy.  But as soon as I saw the photos, something about that reverse looked off to me.....I'm wondering if you either have an artificial toning situation or a cleaned coin that has toned from the chemical cleaning agent there.  At any rate, the 1878-CC is one of the easier CC's.  If it were me, I'd take a pass on this coin altogether and find another 1878-CC.  That coin concerns me.

Thank you for your response. It is very much appreciated. Hopefully the seller will reply back with additional photos. I was iffy on the color as well, but it seemed to follow the natural color progression. What do you see on the reverse that causes you to pause?  Is it the dull, somewhat chalky appearance?  I haven’t seen many cleaned coins to be able to spot that type of toning, so I’m genuinely curious.

 

[J P M]

Well I wish you luck with this coin. I for one do not think you have worn out your welcome Jblindy.  What the heck I ask questions with bad wording all the time because I am a dam Yankee from New England     The only other thing that makes me pause is that both sides of the coin are toned. It does happen. I have some gold toned Nickels but the blue always makes me wonder if it is artificial toning. just trying to cover all the bases you may already know about. 

[Mohawk]

Jblindy,

As far as what concerns me about the coin, it's the coloration, the chalky appearance and the way the letters look on the reverse.  The letters almost look like they have some residue or shading around them....I don't know how to explain it better than that, but in my experience that kind of appearance is a sure sign a coin has been cleaned.  I've seen many Morgans with that look in my time and they've all been cleaned.  The chalky appearance is also a concern.....a natural, toned MS Morgan won't look chalky.  It will still have luster even though it's toned.  And chalky isn't a natural look for coins at any grade.  Once again, chalky is a sure sign of cleaning, in my experience.  Like I said before, I'd strongly urge you not to purchase this coin.....I definitely wouldn't.  I really think it's been cleaned with a chemical agent at some point and everything you see is a result of that.