200 Lire 1979 error 1 1

[Ynnohj]

This might be a wrong spelling at the word repubblica it become REPUBBEICA and akso have a die crack and partial broadatruck..thanks

[Oldhoopster]

Environmental damage.  

Making a die is a multi step process.  A master hub makes master dies, which are used to make working hubs, which are used to make working dies, which strike the coins.  The letters are added to the master hub, not individual dies, so if there is a spelling error, every coin struck that year would have it.

What do you see to make you think it's broadstruck?  

[Mohawk]

I'm just seeing a normal coin with damage.  I see no errors of any kind on that coin.

[Jason Abshier]

Even if it was an error , world error coins carry little to no premium . Unlike a U.S coins . Error coin collecting is a U.S fetish … I’ve seen tons of errors and double dies and off stuck world coins nobody cared 

[Henri Charriere]

I agree. The preoccupation by U.S. collectors with possible errors on world coins, amuses and perplexes the world.

I am familiar with many anomalies present on my Roosters, but none are recognized by any reference source.  There is not a single slot devoted to the acquisition and display of what would routinely be regarded, hands down, as an error, or variety.

I believe if @VKurtB were to seek a private audience with Royal Mint officials in London, one might confide in him that the reason is simple:  Those of the stiff upper lip persuasion would be reluctant to acknowledge "errors" or "varieties" as defects in otherwise superior products and an imperfection which would damage the reputation and myth of unsurpassed quality. Sound plausible?

Edited December 10, 2021 by Quintus Arrius
Die polishing.

[VKurtB]

On 12/9/2021 at 6:30 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

I agree. The preoccupation by U.S. collectors with possible errors on world coins, amuses and perplexes the world.

I am familiar with many anomalies present on my Roosters, but none are recognized by any reference source.  There is not a single slot devoted to the acquisition and display of what would routinely be regarded, hands down, as an error, or variety.

I believe if @VKurtB were to seek a private audience with Royal Mint officials in London, one might confide in him that the reason is simple:  Those of the stiff upper lip persuasion would be reluctant to acknowledge "errors" or "varieties" as defects in otherwise superior products and an imperfection which would damage the reputation and myth of unsurpassed quality. Sound plausible?

Not ONLY is the preoccupation with errors mostly a U.S. fetish, it’s mostly an online collector U.S. fetish. Go to major shows. VERY VERY few collectors are into errors. There is a category in the exhibits for errors and there are almost never any participants. It’s an Internet / YouTube thing.

Throwing common coins under a microscope all day looking for errors would cause me to blow my brains all over a wall VERY quickly. There is a national specialty club for them, CONECA, but they are a very small cadre of folks.

Edited December 11, 2021 by VKurtB

[Mohawk]

On 12/10/2021 at 10:21 PM, VKurtB said:

Not ONLY is the preoccupation with errors mostly a U.S. fetish, it’s mostly an online collector U.S. fetish. Go to major shows. VERY VERY few collectors are into errors. There is a category in the exhibits for errors and there are almost never any participants. It’s an Internet / YouTube thing.

This is all true.....the error community is very small and U.S. based, both in focus and in location.  I, for one, don't get the appeal but that's just me.  For me, the one I really don't get is paper money errors.  I'd never want an error note in my collection at all.  I guess if I'm going to add something to my collection, I want it to look right.

[Oldhoopster]

On 12/10/2021 at 10:21 PM, VKurtB said:

Not ONLY is the preoccupation with errors mostly a U.S. fetish, it’s mostly an online collector U.S. fetish. Go to major shows. VERY VERY few collectors are into errors. There is a category in the exhibits for errors and there are almost never any participants. It’s an Internet / YouTube thing.

Throwing common coins under a microscope all day looking for errors would cause me to blow my brains all over a wall VERY quickly. There is a national specialty club for them, CONECA, but they are a very small cadre of folks.

Why would you call error collecting a fetish?  

[VKurtB]

On 12/10/2021 at 9:45 PM, Oldhoopster said:

Why would you call error collecting a fetish?  

Because while relatively few serious numismatists care about them, those who do really REALLY R-E-A-L-L-Y care about them, as if nothing else matters or even exists. I’ve had a friend excitedly bring me a heavily off-center Kennedy half, and I couldn’t have cared less, but he paid what I thought was an obscene sum for it. I didn’t get the appeal then, and I never have. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by VKurtB

[Oldhoopster]

On 12/10/2021 at 11:32 PM, VKurtB said:

Because while relatively few serious numismatists care about them, those who do really REALLY R-E-A-L-L-Y care about them, as if nothing else matters or even exists. I’ve had a friend excitedly bring me a heavily off-center Kennedy half, and I couldn’t have cared less, but he paid what I thought was an obscene sum for it. I didn’t get the appeal then, and I never have. 

So what I hear you saying is that because YOU  have no interest in this area of numismatics, it's ok to make make condescending comments about the topic. Correct?

While your certainly entitled to your opinion, were your comments really necessary?  Were the error collectors making fun of what you collect?  Were they trying to convert you into becoming an error specialist?  Why didn't you just say something like I didn’t get the appeal then, and I never have like you did in your last post?  That would have worked without insulting other collectors.

 

 

[VKurtB]

On 12/11/2021 at 7:28 AM, Oldhoopster said:

So what I hear you saying is that because YOU  have no interest in this area of numismatics, it's ok to make make condescending comments about the topic. Correct?

While your certainly entitled to your opinion, were your comments really necessary?  Were the error collectors making fun of what you collect?  Were they trying to convert you into becoming an error specialist?  Why didn't you just say something like I didn’t get the appeal then, and I never have like you did in your last post?  That would have worked without insulting other collectors.

 

 

It's not MY fault if you take umbrage with the word "fetish". That you do is merely icing on the cake. Actually, the fact that you take such offense to the word "fetish" kind of proves that the use of the word is accurate and appropriate. I have yet to see any error collector whose collection has any "story" or "theme" to it. Whoopee!! The Mint made an error coin! So what? The entire genre is run by surreptitious backroom dealing and shady practices at the jobbers who receive the ballistic bags from the Mint, such as String and Sons of Harrisburg, PA.

Edited December 11, 2021 by VKurtB

[Oldhoopster]

On 12/11/2021 at 12:14 PM, VKurtB said:

It's not MY fault if you take umbrage with the word "fetish". That you do is merely icing on the cake. Actually, the fact that you take such offense to the word "fetish" kind of proves that the use of the word is accurate and appropriate. I have yet to see any error collector whose collection has any "story" or "theme" to it. Whoopee!! The Mint made an error coin! So what? The entire genre is run by surreptitious backroom dealing and shady practices at the jobbers who receive the ballistic bags from the Mint, such as String and Sons of Harrisburg, PA.

It must be nice to be the Self Proclaimed Arbitrator of Numismatic Collectability.  

I'll just stick with the old "collect what you like" philosophy. Members post on collecting topics that I find ridiculous and a waste of time and money, but who am I to tell them that I think they're wrong.  They are passionate about their interests and share information.  I don't see that as a reason for being condescending. 

 

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/10/2021 at 10:27 PM, Mohawk said:

I guess if I'm going to add something to my collection, I want it to look right.

IMHO, that Del Monte $20. bill that sold for nearly $4M ain't got nothin' on my collection of Chiquita brand sawbucks.   

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/10/2021 at 10:45 PM, Oldhoopster said:

Why would you call error collecting a fetish?  

"Brevity is the soul of wit."

(Shakespeare, Hamlet, Polonius, a2, s2)

Translation:  clever people can express intelligent things using very few words.

Gratuitous observation:  It appears you've met your match.    😉  🐓 

[VKurtB]

There’s nothing inherently wrong with collecting errors, but they are being grossly over-hyped to and by new collectors. There are thousands of newbs out there scouring circulation coins for so-called errors and varieties that are not. Worse yet, they’re giving these non-errors and non-varieties cutsie pie names and trying to market them for obscene prices on places like eBay and Etsy. It’s a subset of the hobby with HUGE ethics problems, even worse than the “flippers”. They create excess supply of the few minor real varieties they do find, and there’s virtually no demand for them. But they strut around acting like they’ve found the next 1955 doubled die cent.

Edited December 11, 2021 by VKurtB

[Mohawk]

On 12/11/2021 at 1:28 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

IMHO, that Del Monte $20. bill that sold for nearly $4M ain't got nothin' on my collection of Chiquita brand sawbucks.   

The fact that Del Monte $20 sold for what it did is absolutely ridiculous, in my opinion.  I wouldn't have wanted that note in my collection at face value, let alone at almost $4M!!!! It's one of those things that shows that there's no accounting for personal taste, and people with lots of money can still have bad taste.  Once again, just my opinion.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Mohawk

[VKurtB]

On 12/11/2021 at 2:36 PM, Mohawk said:

The fact that Del Monte $20 sold for what it did is absolutely ridiculous, in my opinion.  I wouldn't have wanted that note in my collection at face value, let alone at almost $4M!!!! It's one of those things that shows that there's no accounting for personal taste, and people with lots of money can still have bad taste.  Once again, just my opinion.

How about the $6,000 cricket at ATS? Utter insanity on a planetary scale, especially since it was intentionally created.

[Mohawk]

On 12/11/2021 at 4:03 PM, VKurtB said:

How about the $6,000 cricket at ATS? Utter insanity on a planetary scale, especially since it was intentionally created.

That was even worse, no doubt about it, Kurt.  That went beyond ridiculousness and into the realm of deep insanity, you're absolutely correct.  And what does that person have now for their $6,000? The remains of a long deceased invertebrate sealed in PCGS plastic.  When my pet scorpion, Terra, was still alive and well, I could have easily provided anyone who wanted them the remains of deceased crickets anytime they wanted, and for much less than $6.000.  I could have even bought a cheap coin in a PCGS slab, opened it up, removed the coin and put the cricket remains into the slab and then glued it back together for them. All for much less than $6,000. For my remains of a long dead invertebrate dollar, I'd rather have this nice Sea Scorpion fossil.  It's 420 million years old, it was probably found somewhere fairly close to me and it's only $545:

[Oldhoopster]

On 12/11/2021 at 2:40 PM, VKurtB said:

There’s nothing inherently wrong with collecting errors, but they are being grossly over-hyped to and by new collectors. There are thousands of newbs out there scouring circulation coins for so-called errors and varieties that are not. Worse yet, they’re giving these non-errors and non-varieties cutsie pie names and trying to market them for obscene prices on places like eBay and Etsy. It’s a subset of the hobby with HUGE ethics problems, even worse than the “flippers”. They create excess supply of the few minor real varieties they do find, and there’s virtually no demand for them. But they strut around acting like they’ve found the next 1955 doubled die cent.

I agree with most of your points, particularly the "value" of minor errors.  We need to keep pushing the education in a positive manner

 

On 12/11/2021 at 2:12 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

.

....Gratuitous observation:  It appears you've met your match.    😉  🐓 

I wasn't aware this was a competition. 

[Oldhoopster]

Re: slabbed cricket

There is a backstory to the cricket and it was owned by Fred Weinberg.  I'm not saying that justified the price, and I personally think it's ridiculous, but that may explain some of the bidding interest

https://coinweek.com/auctions-news/greatcollections-offering-the-cricket-in-the-pcgs-sample-slab/

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/11/2021 at 4:43 PM, Oldhoopster said:

I agree with most of your points, particularly the "value" of minor errors.  We need to keep pushing the education in a positive manner

 

I wasn't aware this was a competition. 

To paraphrase the Notorius B.I.G (decessed):  "You ain' know, now you know, [expletive deleted]. 🐓 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Quintus Arrius
Die polishing demolished a critical comma

[Henri Charriere]

SUPERFLUOUS NOTE:

A few lines from Samuel Taylor Colridge describes exactly how I felt after @VKurtB took his time sizing me up before  engaging (and, in so doing, eviscerating) me days after my first post...

"He went like one that had been stunned, and is of sense forlorn:

A sadder and a wiser man, he rose the morning morn."

-From the closing lines of The Rime of the Ancient Mariner. (written in the late 1790's)

Seasoned member @VKurtB pulled no punches not only ridiculing the idea a world class collection of French 20-franc gold roosters could be assembled in only 90 days, but also questioned the value of any collection that could.  Turns out he was right on both counts.  Availability is what stymied me.  I am fond of straight-shooters, and he fits the bill.

 

[Mohawk]

On 12/11/2021 at 4:49 PM, Oldhoopster said:

Re: slabbed cricket

There is a backstory to the cricket and it was owned by Fred Weinberg.  I'm not saying that justified the price, and I personally think it's ridiculous, but that may explain some of the bidding interest

https://coinweek.com/auctions-news/greatcollections-offering-the-cricket-in-the-pcgs-sample-slab/

That's interesting, Hoopster, and it likely explains some of it.  Some people get pretty wound up on provenance.  I'm not one of them, but I know that a well known name attached to something carries a lot of weight with some people.  That's fine.  Different strokes for different folks.  But $6,000 for a dead cricket is pretty excessive, no matter who owned it.  

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Mohawk

[VKurtB]

On 12/11/2021 at 8:13 PM, Mohawk said:

That's interesting, Hoopster, and it likely explains some of it.  Some people get pretty wound up on provenance.  I'm not one of them, but I know that a well known name attached to something carries a lot of weight with some people.  That's fine.  Different strokes for different folks.  But $6,000 for a dead cricket is pretty excessive, no matter who owned it.  

 

Some pretty huge percentage of ALL of the most worthwhile errors also passed through Fred Weinberg’s hands. Maybe not a majority, but a nice sized plurality at least. Now that he’s stepping away from the field, there is an opening that may resemble a chasm or a vacuum.

[VKurtB]

On 12/11/2021 at 6:17 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

SUPERFLUOUS NOTE:

A few lines from Samuel Taylor Colridge describes exactly how I felt after @VKurtB took his time sizing me up before  engaging (and, in so doing, eviscerating) me days after my first post...

"He went like one that had been stunned, and is of sense forlorn:

A sadder and a wiser man, he rose the morning morn."

-From the closing lines of The Rime of the Ancient Mariner. (written in the late 1790's)

Seasoned member @VKurtB pulled no punches not only ridiculing the idea a world class collection of French 20-franc gold roosters could be assembled in only 90 days, but also questioned the value of any collection that could.  Turns out he was right on both counts.  Availability is what stymied me.  I am fond of straight-shooters, and he fits the bill.

 

But still the Holy Grail of the MS68 Coq Mariannes tortures and mocks your efforts to acquire them, and that is a worthwhile life quest. What makes your particular quest all the more interesting is the shared belief by RWB and me that they are out there, hiding from their plasticizing imprisoners, mostly in France, but likely many places - as is likely true of many of the late 19th and early 20th century European gold pieces.

There is a mostly unwritten story of the large outflow of gold, both American and European, from Europe to America, that accompanied the end of the American gold ownership restrictions. The reason it’s not well documented might have something to do with the tax man.

Edited December 12, 2021 by VKurtB

[Mohawk]

On 12/11/2021 at 9:24 PM, VKurtB said:

Some pretty huge percentage of ALL of the most worthwhile errors also passed through Fred Weinberg’s hands. Maybe not a majority, but a nice sized plurality at least. Now that he’s stepping away from the field, there is an opening that may resemble a chasm or a vacuum.

That's a good point, Kurt...I wonder if anyone will step in to try to fill it.  As we've established on here, the error community is quite small and there may not be any one particular error collector who is fully equipped to fill Weinberg's shoes.  

[VKurtB]

On 12/11/2021 at 8:38 PM, Mohawk said:

That's a good point, Kurt...I wonder if anyone will step in to try to fill it.  As we've established on here, the error community is quite small and there may not be any one particular error collector who is fully equipped to fill Weinberg's shoes.  

His absence as THE dealer of the best errors is even more interesting to the hobby writ large than his own collections’ ultimate disposition. 

[Just Bob]

On 12/11/2021 at 8:38 PM, Mohawk said:

That's a good point, Kurt...I wonder if anyone will step in to try to fill it.  As we've established on here, the error community is quite small and there may not be any one particular error collector who is fully equipped to fill Weinberg's shoes.  

 

On 12/11/2021 at 8:24 PM, VKurtB said:

Some pretty huge percentage of ALL of the most worthwhile errors also passed through Fred Weinberg’s hands. Maybe not a majority, but a nice sized plurality at least. Now that he’s stepping away from the field, there is an opening that may resemble a chasm or a vacuum.

In the future, I expect Mike Byers to be "The Man" as far as errors are concerned.

[VKurtB]

On 12/11/2021 at 8:54 PM, Just Bob said:

 

In the future, I expect Mike Byers to be "The Man" as far as errors are concerned.

Has been associated with Fred, or is he “the next man up”?

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/11/2021 at 9:35 PM, VKurtB said:

But still the Holy Grail of the MS68 Coq Mariannes tortures and mocks your efforts to acquire them, and that is a worthwhile quest....

Too little, too late. As Edison said, [Success] is one percent inspiration, ninety-nine percent perspiration. If my wife allows me to attend NYINC, I'll go but I would no sooner switch to errors and varieties than you would  -- or  🐓 🐓 🐓.