• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Is this considered ethical? How do they get by NGC?
1 1

Started by Jerry Picker,

67 posts in this topic

Jerry Picker

Jerry Picker

Posted
Posted (edited)

I sold two items to someone and he did something to them and then sent them to NGC and now he is reselling them.

My listings: 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/403046556866

https://www.ebay.com/itm/403086237791

 

His listings:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185068890161

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185072612143

 

Edited by Jerry Picker
Link to comment
Share on other sites
gmarguli

gmarguli

Posted
Posted

It's called capitalism and other than with a few left-wing loonies, it's considered 100% ethical. 

He removed some dirt and oxidation by using MS70. The TPG allow this as it does not harm the coin. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Henri Charriere

Henri Charriere

Posted
Posted

[Unsolited editorial comment some may find offensive and defamatory...]

One member's got 2 HOURS in.  The other's got nearly 20 YEARS.

ME THINKS IT TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Joydeep

Joydeep

Posted
Posted
On 10/1/2021 at 6:04 PM, Jerry Picker said:

....... Capitalism? SMH

A coin graded by a top tier TPG like NGC will fetch more than if it was sold raw. The seller did what he had to do (including sending them in for grading) and taking the risk (could have gotten details grade). He has generated much greater wealth in this process. I guess Capitalism in this sense of the word.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mikhail2400

Mikhail2400

Posted
Posted
On 10/1/2021 at 7:12 PM, Jerry Picker said:

@Quintus ArriusWow!! He's been a "member" for 20 years. I've been collecting, selling, buying coins for over 40. What's your point?

I dont understand why you would think that persons actions were unethical. He bought a token, restored it a bit and then paid to have it slabbed, which increased its sale value. You could have done the same thing he did and with over 40 years "collecting, selling, buying coins" it would seem to me to be a logical step for you to take.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
zadok

zadok

Posted
Posted
On 10/1/2021 at 6:04 PM, Jerry Picker said:

What does politics have to do with it? I'll admit I use Blu-Bow but it doesn't chemically change the surface of the coin or make it appear to have original mint luster. Capitalism? SMH

nothing to do with ethics, nothing different than sending the coins in for conservation n grading....no big deal.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mohawk

Mohawk

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 10/1/2021 at 5:56 PM, gmarguli said:

It's called capitalism and other than with a few left-wing loonies, it's considered 100% ethical. 

He removed some dirt and oxidation by using MS70. The TPG allow this as it does not harm the coin. 

Why does this need to be political?  It's a freaking coin board. Can't we just leave political garbage out of it?

Edited by Mohawk
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jerry Picker

Jerry Picker

Posted
  • Author
Posted

@zadok Sorry, but, me and a lot of others on a couple of coin chats, disagree. It's not conserving, it's enhancing. If I sent the coin in as it was, would I have gotten the grade he received? Especially the MS66 which is totally outrageous. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Popular Post
gmarguli

gmarguli

Posted
  • Popular Post
Posted
On 10/1/2021 at 4:12 PM, Jerry Picker said:

@Quintus ArriusWow!! He's been a "member" for 20 years. I've been collecting, selling, buying coins for over 40. What's your point?

Perhaps his point is that in over 40 years you haven't learned much about the coin business. He bought a coin from you. He used an industry accepted solvent to remove dirt and oxidation. He sent it in for certification. He put it up for sale in a true auction starting at 1c. He took the risk and will get the reward. You could have done any of this. He is a true capitalist and no amount of whining will change that. And if you think me pointing out that a vast amount of people in this country other than a sliver of the ultra-left think capitalism is "political" you need to get some thicker skin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Popular Post
Henri Charriere

Henri Charriere

Posted
  • Popular Post
Posted
On 10/1/2021 at 7:37 PM, Jerry Picker said:

Joydeep  Nobody's answered my question. Is it ethical? It's ok if you don't get caught?

The problem here appears to be one of first blush.  What is a polite way to tell a gentlemen -- new member or not -- who's "been collecting, buying and selling coins" for over 40 years that it would be advisable, if within the realm of possibility, to submit a coin for authentication and certification, i.e., encapsulation, minus dirt and oxidation so as to present it to the discriminating customer in the most favorable light possible?    🐓 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jerry Picker

Jerry Picker

Posted
  • Author
Posted

@Mikhail2400  I guess us old timers and serious collectors are behind the times. We never thought of altering coins to make a profit. We take the coins as they are, which we think look fine. Pretty soon all you'll see are all blue-brown coins in plastic holders. It's a shame.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Popular Post
gmarguli

gmarguli

Posted
  • Popular Post
Posted
On 10/1/2021 at 5:03 PM, Jerry Picker said:

Sorry, I should have known not to join a chat room sponsored by a grading service and bring this up. CYA

Please don't leave. All us non-serious collectors can learn from your vast 40 years of knowledge. I can see the topics now:

  • How not to make your coins look their best so you can get a low grade.
  • How not to have your coins professionally graded to help maximize their value.
  • How to undergrade your raw coins and sell them as AU+ when they are really choice UNC.
  • How to complain when others resell coins they bought from you for more money.
  • How to be 15 years late to the party on the forums about the blue copper debate.
  • How to be 200 years too late the introduction of blue to copper US coins.
  • How to be dismissive of others using industry accepted solvents to clean a coin and instead call it "altering".
  • How to collect only unaltered coins, like 150 year old blast white silver coins.
  • How to leave the forums when not everyone agrees with your opinion since you have super thin skin.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
zadok

zadok

Posted
Posted
On 10/1/2021 at 7:52 PM, Jerry Picker said:

@zadok Sorry, but, me and a lot of others on a couple of coin chats, disagree. It's not conserving, it's enhancing. If I sent the coin in as it was, would I have gotten the grade he received? Especially the MS66 which is totally outrageous. 

u asked a question u got answers...if u dont like them or agree not our problem...if u dont want buyers to resell ur coins dont sell them....

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mohawk

Mohawk

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 10/1/2021 at 8:18 PM, zadok said:

u asked a question u got answers...if u dont like them or agree not our problem...if u dont want buyers to resell ur coins dont sell them....

Yep.  You nailed it zadok. I'm a buyer and reseller myself.  I buy mint and proof sets, send the nicest coins in them and the good varieties off for grading at NGC and I sell them.  It's how I fund my Faustina collection.  And I certainly don't feel that I am unethical for doing that.

Edited by Mohawk
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Popular Post
Revenant

Revenant

Posted
  • Popular Post
Posted
On 10/1/2021 at 6:52 PM, Jerry Picker said:

It's not conserving, it's enhancing.

It's worth pointing out that you wouldn't conserve art or anything unless you expected to enhance it and make it so that it can be enjoyed more and longer.

That said, part of your question was "how did this get by NGC?" The answer would seem to be that NGC and their sister NCS are not hypocrits and do not details grade people for something they themselves probably do some version of, if done well.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Woods020

Woods020

Posted
Posted
On 10/1/2021 at 8:48 PM, Revenant said:

It's worth pointing out that you wouldn't conserve art or anything unless you expected to enhance it and make it so that it can be enjoyed more and longer.

That said, part of your question was "how did this get by NGC?" The answer would seem to be that NGC and their sister NCS are not hypocrits and do not details grade people for something they themselves probably do some version of, if done well.

 

Not true. Art is cleaned often without enhancement. It’s more about keeping it from damage over time. I’m staying out of the coin debate but museums have teams of people who clean and preserve pieces with no intention of improving. They simply want it to stay as is for as long as possible. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
MorganMan

MorganMan

Posted
Posted

So as of now, He paid you 389 for the Indian head, and the bid is 330.

Plus, he paid for grading. Unless the bid goes way higher, he is losing money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Revenant

Revenant

Posted
Posted
On 10/1/2021 at 10:04 PM, Woods020 said:

Not true. Art is cleaned often without enhancement. It’s more about keeping it from damage over time. I’m staying out of the coin debate but museums have teams of people who clean and preserve pieces with no intention of improving. They simply want it to stay as is for as long as possible. 

The word conservation - as opposed to preservation - includes repair as well as simple preservation. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Popular Post
Fenntucky Mike

Fenntucky Mike

Posted
  • Popular Post
Posted

Generally, buying something and reselling it is not unethical. It doesn't seem like anything unethical happened with these transactions and judging by the quick turnaround to get these slabbed the current seller is still in the red. Conserving or having a coin conserved is not unethical. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
zadok

zadok

Posted
Posted
On 10/2/2021 at 7:24 AM, Alex in PA. said:

Oh my gawd; another one!  doh!

i suggest we now call this the ngc forum n corrida....wasnt caesar assassinated in the forum?...ironic that brutus denarius sells for more than caesar denarius, just to keep topic numismatically grounded....

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Alex in PA.

Alex in PA.

Posted
Posted
On 10/2/2021 at 11:22 AM, zadok said:

ironic that brutus denarius sells for more than caesar denarius,

Big Juli really got a bum deal.  Murdered by folks he liked and now history is going cheap on him.  :ohnoez:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mohawk

Mohawk

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 10/2/2021 at 12:34 PM, Alex in PA. said:

Big Juli really got a bum deal.  Murdered by folks he liked and now history is going cheap on him.  :ohnoez:

Yeah, he did.  Caesar totally got the shaft.  Things went a whole lot better for his great-nephew though.

Edited by Mohawk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
1 1
Go to topic listing