Possible record 1886 Type1 Brown Indian Head Cent 2 2

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/14/2021 at 8:28 PM, MarkFeld said:

If you want to try to get a grader’s perspective, (temporarily) toss that 30x loupe.

@VKurtB & now @MarkFeld .  In my heart I know you're both right, but I have had this relic since 1971 and it is impossible for me to conduct a proper autopsy or post-mortem without it.  😉 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/14/2021 at 7:58 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Ditto top tier Roosters.  🐓 

That's not as surprising to me....you would expect hoards of the French gold coin (and American DE's, too) to still be found in attics, wall boards, etc from the two World Wars and upheavals after each.  But that Indian Head Penny you would figure we'd have uncovered virtually all or all the known specimens.  You wouldn't expect a hoard of that coin type to exist.

At least I wouldn't.  

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[Woods020]

On 12/14/2021 at 7:42 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

That's not as surprising to me....you would expect hoards of the French gold coin (and American DE's, too) to still be found in attics, wall boards, etc from the two World Wars and upheavals after each.  But that Indian Head Penny you would figure we'd have uncovered virtually all or all the known specimens.  You wouldn't expect a hoard of that coin type to exist.

At least I wouldn't.  

 

I think a lot of people underestimate the amount of raw coins sitting with older collectors. It was eye opening to me. I started collecting after TPG slabbed coins were the norm. I thought all the nicer coins were graded. Far from true I’ve learned. The older collectors never had a TPG to send to. Nor did most want to. TPGs are a relatively new concept in the full history of numismatics. 

[Henri Charriere]

Mindful of the seemingly extraordinary number of encapsulations undertaken by all TPGS, both here and abroad , I believe it to be infinitesimal when compared to the universe of all coins ever minted and the precise numbers which remain unaccounted for whether by loss, surreptitious melting, or theft.   🐓 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/14/2021 at 10:41 PM, Woods020 said:

I think a lot of people underestimate the amount of raw coins sitting with older collectors. It was eye opening to me. I started collecting after TPG slabbed coins were the norm. I thought all the nicer coins were graded. Far from true I’ve learned. The older collectors never had a TPG to send to. Nor did most want to. TPGs are a relatively new concept in the full history of numismatics. 

Fair points...I get where you are coming from.  But I would doubt that a niche coin like that Indian Head Cent would be found in a collection in such a high grade.  

Kids who were teenagers right after WW II and into the 1950's -- the Golden Age for Coin Collecting -- are now passing on and their collections being sold by heirs or estates.  It's a process that has been going on for 10-15 years and will continue another decade or more.  We'll see if someone unknowingly has some valuable RAW ungraded coins of various types that were collected by young kids and maybe even young adults.  

Might even find some silver Morgans and gold Saints/Indian Heads collected for their PM content. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[Henri Charriere]

@GoldFinger1969

Ever the optimist; you always have an upbeat outlook.

They're out there alright.  My schnozzola has picked up the scent!  😉 

[Henri Charriere]

@Woods020

And let's not overlook the fact that only a small fraction of the gold bullion on the S.S. Central America was ever recovered. Tons of gold remain on the sea floor. As I recall, one of the Red Books had a special section dedicated to bars hitherto unknown to numismatists like that giant 866.19 oz Justh & Hunter gold ingot being auctioned off. Lots of ancient hoards being discovered lately. If, as the saying goes, you can't take it with you, then there's a lot of stuff being left around.

@GoldFinger1969 is right about one thing. It may not be top shelf grade-wise but it's out there, raw, and yet to be found.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/15/2021 at 10:42 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

@Woods020  And let's not overlook the fact that only a small fraction of the gold bullion on the S.S. Central America was ever recovered. Tons of gold remain on the sea floor. 

With the initial find, I thought they got the bulk of it, no ? 

I know there were/are plans to grab more stuff either with divers going down or robotic arms.  Anything happening with that ?

Edited December 15, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/15/2021 at 1:25 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

With the initial find, I thought they got the bulk of it, no ? 

I know there were/are plans to grab more stuff either with divers going down or robotic arms.  Anything happening with that ?

To my knowledge, everything has ground to a halt.  The prime mover, Tommy Thompson, has been in a Florida jail for 6 years on contempt charges for refusing to divulge the whereabouts of the bullion extracted from the ocean-floor with the help of a cutting-edge submersible outfitted with special equipment bankrolled by investors who apparently were never compensated.

The percentage of the bounty lying on the sea floor most recently (just last week) was cited as amounting to about 20% of what was shipped. The lion's share remains inaccessible to the vast majority of people who lack the funding and expertise to retrieve it.

The entire expedition was meticulouly planned, carried out and recorded and as one of the owners of a small sample of actual 49's gold nuggets distributed by Monaco, I was very disappointed with the outcome.  Is there anything stopping anyone else from mounting another expedition, or has Thompson, et al. claimed their stake.  I have no idea.   🐓