Did I get burned? I believe I did. 2 2

[Jason Abshier]

14 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

@Jason Abshier  These are usually the dealers -- many based overseas -- that provide what they believe is the highest degree of information and the finest example of photography they feel is sufficient for a buyer to make their decision.  In a perfect world make, this would make but is not good enough for the more experienced experts who would prefer to conduct an autopsy at their leisure and on their own terms with a return guarantee. As you may be aware, I have regular dealings with reputable coin emporiums who emphasize the fact that, if for reason you remain unsatisfied, you are free to send the purchased item back postehaste.

@Quintus Arrius, I’m far far from an expert I would never ever consider myself an expert . I do believe there a big difference when it comes to American’s collecting coins VS European market on how they grade coins I’ve heard some Europeans find that old classic coinage in say AU-MS63 is considered a nice coin for their collection . As an American prefers the best or best GEM quality coin hoping it grades out MS67 or higher . If it has a splash of rainbow toning an American is willing to pay a lot more for it . I see a lot of old old classic European coinage with heavy tone as well as rainbow toning they don’t seem to try sell it over price just for that reason (and that’s the way an old coin should look untouched) . I also sadly see a lot of “cleaned” “damaged” European coins in NGC , PCGS , ANACS holders as well probably from Americans trying to clean an old European coin before sending it off to grading. I do see we are different as Americans with our standards and when it comes to coin collecting compared to other countries around us that have coin collectors as well 

[VKurtB]

On 7/12/2021 at 12:31 PM, Jason Abshier said:

@Quintus Arrius, I’m far far from an expert I would never ever consider myself an expert . I do believe there a big difference when it comes to American’s collecting coins VS European market on how they grade coins I’ve heard some Europeans find that old classic coinage in say AU-MS63 is considered a nice coin for their collection . As an American prefers the best or best GEM quality coin hoping it grades out MS67 or higher . If it has a splash of rainbow toning an American is willing to pay a lot more for it . I see a lot of old old classic European coinage with heavy tone as well as rainbow toning they don’t seem to try sell it over price just for that reason (and that’s the way an old coin should look untouched) . I also sadly see a lot of “cleaned” “damaged” European coins in NGC , PCGS , ANACS holders as well probably from Americans trying to clean an old European coin before sending it off to grading. I do see we are different as Americans with our standards and when it comes to coin collecting compared to other countries around us that have coin collectors as well 

Thank you for this post, Jason. It confirms my observations, but my sample size of observations is small. 

[Jason Abshier]

Not to get to far off topic is anyone familiar with grading scale of the new French coin grading company GENI ? How are they compared to NGC/PCGS on grading scale ? I haven’t been doing business on European market since about 2015 … I was bidding in a few auctions came across the slabbed coins GENI must of opened up around few years ago , I like the look of their holders I might bid on a few of their coins in the auction just to have a few coins that are graded by them . I know over in European countries some collectors have hard time having coins shipped through custom to get to NGC or PCGS offices That are based overseas in that area , it’s a matter of time before they develop their own coin grading companies looks like the French finally took that step grading coins 

[Henri Charriere]

[I am in too deep to contemplate investigation of yet another TPGS I never heard of and because I have been stricken with set registrant fever for which there is no known cure, anything I acquire from any source at whatever cost would have to undergo cross-grading, a hazy labyrinth to which there is no road map, but requires additional costs.

I have my own sneaky suspicions but it would be the height of folly to attempt a valid extrapolation based solely on my limited exposure to a single series of coins minted in one country, once upon a time.

As noted elsewhere on another thread, I began my quest with raw coins, violated my life-long religious beliefs and switched gears to encapsulations with NGC, only to discover the reason why so many set registrants throw in the towel is due to the scarcity of the earlier coins which constitute half the series. Enter PCGS, by default -- not choice. They apparently locked down the European market for 20-franc gold roosters, a claim I want to qualify by stating I am not qualified to make a blanket statement beyond that.  If I had my druthers I would cross-grade all coins to NGC and attempt to compile the finest collection that can be assembled.

The OP asks, "Did I get burned?" I know I did, skewing prices and taking irrational risks, but you are only a loser if you didn't learn from your mistakes. I am accessible. Anyone can PM me here and contact me "over there." But the collectors of this series are notably uncommunicative. Almost everything I've learned was through trial-and-error and the occasional helpful tip. Recently, one of my many detractors charged me with being incapable of staying away from the Forum.  I am ashamed to say I am guilty as charged.  🐓

P.S.  @Hoghead515  I appreciate your forthrightness, honesty, humility and uncanny ability to avoid controversy and remain on good terms with every member, across the board!  We should all emulate your style.

 

[MorganMan]

I have carefully cracked out quite a few NGC slabs for my Dansco 7070 and other albums. I assure you, there would be quite a bit more damage than that little crack. Looks like it was just dropped.

Even the best crack out I did was quite damaging to the seam area.

 

 

If you like the coin, keep it. If not, just send it back.

Edited July 16, 2021 by MorganMan

[thebeav]

I wouldn't be very happy with that 20 centime with a straight grade of 61. I don't know about that grading company.

[Henri Charriere]

On 7/15/2021 at 10:45 PM, Jason Abshier said:

Not to get too far off topic is anyone familiar with grading scale of the new French coin grading company GENI ? How are they compared to NGC/PCGS on grading scale ? 

I think it safe to say that just as NGC, PCGS, ANACS, etc. are expected to conform to USA grading standards, so too are these same businesses -- and GENI, likewise obligated to conform to the grading system used in France 🇫🇷, with corresponding "equivalencies," as follows:

B (Beau) from G-6 to F-14

TB (Tres Beau) from F-15 to VF-39

TTB (Tres tres Beau) from XF-40 to AU-54

SUP (Superbe) from AU-55 to MS-62

SPL (Splendide)  MS-63 and MS-64

FDC (Fleur De Coin) from MS-65 to MS-70

BE  (Belle Epreuve) Proof

BU  (Brillant Universal)  Brilliant Uncirculated

This upstart, GENI, has apparently been around since 2017 and is recognized by numiscorner.com and cgb.fr Numismatique Paris among other highly reputable firms, but I was unaware of their existence because I never requested certification of my French coins through their service though I have been collecting them since 2018.  🐓

[Mr.Bill347]

That’s a shame Hog, who knows the coin may have been graded long ago and developed the spot over the years. The sellers picture is not that good perhaps an indication he was trying to hide it. I would hang on to it if I were you, for $39 it is a 1961 ms66 so IMO you should keep it. But, on the other hand, if it’s going to annoy you forever, return it for a refund and get another.

here’s on ending in 45 minutes,

[Hoghead515]

On 7/16/2021 at 8:07 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

That’s a shame Hog, who knows the coin may have been graded long ago and developed the spot over the years. The sellers picture is not that good perhaps an indication he was trying to hide it. I would hang on to it if I were you, for $39 it is a 1961 ms66 so IMO you should keep it. But, on the other hand, if it’s going to annoy you forever, return it for a refund and get another.

here’s on ending in 45 minutes,

I went ahead and kept it. Everyone on here made me feel better about it not being cracked open and switched out. I've never seen an open slab and didn't know they couldn't be cracked open without making a mess of it. Ive done got a replacement on the way for my set I won in auction. I'll keep the other in my miscellaneous coin box. It's not eating nothing sitting there so all in all I'm happy. That was a real deal you got on that proof. Nice coin my friend. 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Hoghead515

[coinman_23885]

I would return it without reservation.

[VKurtB]

On 7/15/2021 at 10:37 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

I have been stricken with set registrant fever for which there is no known cure

Please see the Bob Newhart video I posted elsewhere on this forum.