Coin fantasy or real 1 1

[KyCoinKollektor]

So here I am at st Augustine beach metal detecting this morning and found this on the shores about 8” down. My hopes are not high at all on this and I’m leaning towards a fantasy/gift shop coin but I figured why not get your all input since I have no testing acids/scales/loupes or any other tools I would normally use to help identify this. It is metal and it is also NOT magnetic. But it is just to clean looking. Thanks for any input and happy Father Day everyone!

[JKK]

Doesn't look real, or like any real one I have ever seen. I wonder if these are cheap fakes salted into the sand to get people excited. You can get it tested for silver if you want, just to make sure.

[VKurtB]

Looks like a cruise ship piece. 

[Alex in PA.]

How's the weather at the beach?  Must be a nice day for searching.

[KyCoinKollektor]

1 hour ago, Alex in PA. said:

How's the weather at the beach?  Must be a nice day for searching.

It’s been raining all day but I like it that way it cuts down on a lot of people being out so I can keep straight lines as I search. 

[KyCoinKollektor]

I have found out that this coin is indeed real. Took it to several coin shops in the area and all 3 said it looked real. It was acid tested and passed for silver. It is a silver pillars with waves, Found that it is 8 reales, made in 1790-98, mint mark is Peru. I’m completely blown away, and next step is to send it in for grading. 

[VKurtB]

4 minutes ago, KyCoinKollektor said:

I have found out that this coin is indeed real. Took it to several coin shops in the area and all 3 said it looked real. It was acid tested and passed for silver. It is a silver pillars with waves, Found that it is 8 reales, made in 1790-98, mint mark is Peru. I’m completely blown away, and next step is to send it in for grading. 

I frankly do not believe whomever told you that. It’s not plausible. Many coin dealers don’t know their you know what from a hole in the ground. 

[Woods020]

I’ve read on these for a while this morning out of curiosity. I admittedly know very little about early foreign coinage, but I will say nothing on this looks accurate based on many verified examples. Even the symbols on the reverse aren’t in line with how they were minted at the time. This doesn’t even look like a column and waved design. Lastly in 1790-1798 Peruvian 8 reales weren’t the column and wave design. They were in 1690-1698 perhaps? But with how good of shape this piece is seemingly in the year of mintage should be clearly discernible on the reverse, but again this piece doesn’t follow the correct design. This is not even a decent attempt at a copy from what I can see. 

[KyCoinKollektor]

I respect everyone’s input and I frankly do not know myself, I only have knowledge of American coinage so this is all new to me. I’ve got the money to take the gamble so I’ll take a shot in the dark and send it in anyway just to see. Again thanks everyone for there input. It is silver though for sure so that’s what’s throwing me for a loop. Fake or not I still think it was a cool find for my very first time beach detecting and in the first 5-10 minutes at that.

[Woods020]

The first two pictures are of an authentic 1790 Peruvian 8 reales from HA. 
 

The bottom picture is an authentic column and wave design 8 reales. I think you can see it doesn’t closely resemble the piece you found. 
 

Here is a link that explains very well how to read the information on these coins. I definitely learned something. 
 

https://cannonbeachtreasure.com/blogs/news/how-to-read-a-spanish-piece-of-8-pillars-waves-edition

[Woods020]

12 minutes ago, KyCoinKollektor said:

I respect everyone’s input and I frankly do not know myself, I only have knowledge of American coinage so this is all new to me. I’ve got the money to take the gamble so I’ll take a shot in the dark and send it in anyway just to see. Again thanks everyone for there input. It is silver though for sure so that’s what’s throwing me for a loop. Fake or not I still think it was a cool find for my very first time beach detecting and in the first 5-10 minutes at that.

Best of luck. It would be a once in a lifetime experience to find something like that, and I would love to see it be real (or reales in this instance). I’m just skeptical.  But I would love to see it be something special. 

[Oldhoopster]

 

This is a link to a dealer who specializes in these coins. Take some time and compare your coin to those for sale.  You'll easily see that your coin has none of the characteristics of an authentic pillar and wave cob.

https://www.sedwickcoins.com

If you still think you have something send it in.  But IMO, you'll just be wasting $60+.  You'll have better odds buying scratch-off tickets.

 

[gmarguli]

2 hours ago, KyCoinKollektor said:

I have found out that this coin is indeed real. Took it to several coin shops in the area and all 3 said it looked real. It was acid tested and passed for silver. It is a silver pillars with waves, Found that it is 8 reales, made in 1790-98, mint mark is Peru. I’m completely blown away, and next step is to send it in for grading. 

Did any of those shops want to buy it? Because if they did, I'd sell it to them ASAP.

Nothing about it looks authentic. 

[DWLange]

It's a novelty replica not intended to deceive but to entertain and, perhaps, educate.

It wasn't coined with a hammer, but rather was molded. You can see the seam where the two halves meet at the bottom of the second photo.

[Henri Charriere]

There were plenty of artifacts, coins and bars recovered from shipwrecks.  I do not recall anyone having the audacity to dismiss same with a wave of the hand saying they had never heard of such a refiner or mark, heretofore unknown, or examples of other such unknown numismatica.

Found eight inches down on a Florida beach. Silver. Aged, battered, with foreign inscriptions.  A true collector puts authencity first. There is plenty of time to determine its rarity, and Fair Market Value.

I say make multiple images and be sure to send two to David Vagi of NGC in Las Vegas who, to my knowledge, has never been stumped or vacillated over the most obscure, oldest of coins.

And other thing... how come all the naysayers here had nothing to say about the badly-worn 1837 bust half (sans counterfeit descriptor)  a seasoned member posted recently or was he given a pass because of his exalted status?  My best piece of advice is forward copies of your coin to the biggest and best emporiums and get additional opinions including price range before squandering time and money submitting something you know very little about. I wish you the best of luck!

[Oldhoopster]

1 hour ago, Quintus Arrius said:

There were plenty of artifacts, coins and bars recovered from shipwrecks.  I do not recall anyone having the audacity to dismiss same with a wave of the hand saying they had never heard of such a refiner or mark, heretofore unknown, or examples of other such unknown numismatica.

Found eight inches down on a Florida beach. Silver. Aged, battered, with foreign inscriptions.  A true collector puts authencity first. There is plenty of time to determine its rarity, and Fair Market Value.

I say make multiple images and be sure to send two to David Vagi of NGC in Las Vegas who, to my knowledge, has never been stumped or vacillated over the most obscure, oldest of coins.

And other thing... how come all the naysayers here had nothing to say about the badly-worn 1837 bust half (sans counterfeit descriptor)  a seasoned member posted recently or was he given a pass because of his exalted status?  My best piece of advice is forward copies of your coin to the biggest and best emporiums and get additional opinions including price range before squandering time and money submitting something you know very little about. I wish you the best of luck!

You may want to check out Daniel Sedgwick's site and/or read his book before implying that this is anything other than a replica of a pillar and wave cob (and a poor one st that). Take the time to study the characteristics of genuine cobs and note the appearance of salvaged ones.  Does it really look like it spent hundreds of years being in saltwater and tossed around  beach?  

Did you notice the casting seam Mr. Lange pointed out in a previous post?

It's irresponsible giving a new hobbiest false hope.  

Edited June 27, 2021 by Oldhoopster

[gmarguli]

2 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

There were plenty of artifacts, coins and bars recovered from shipwrecks.  I do not recall anyone having the audacity to dismiss same with a wave of the hand saying they had never heard of such a refiner or mark, heretofore unknown, or examples of other such unknown numismatica.

Found eight inches down on a Florida beach. Silver. Aged, battered, with foreign inscriptions.  A true collector puts authencity first. There is plenty of time to determine its rarity, and Fair Market Value.

Even unknown examples have one thing in common, they tend to be somewhat similar in characteristic to known examples of type/date. The writing and symbols on this "coin" are gibberish. No date, denomination, or anything to indicate a country of origin. Clearly cast (XF condition with no wear), not to mention the seam. And anyone who has experience can instantly tell that this "coin" is not old based on its look. Based on the attempted style, it should be 300-500 years old. My guess is that it was produced post 1960.

[Henri Charriere]

52 minutes ago, Oldhoopster said:

 

It's irresponsible giving a new hobbiest false hope.  

@Oldhoopster - let's see now, "inappropriate humor" and now "false hope," but it was pefectly okay for that Mint Director of yore to tell that young boy years ago, in substance,, A copper 1943 cent? None were authorized. Now git kid, you botha me.

By your measure, asking a surgeon for a second (or third) opinion is being irresponsible.  I see nothing wrong with seeking additional guidance. Right now, if someone were to ask him what've you got there?  The height of folly would be to say, "I don't know. "But I've been told it's not real."

And if asked, who told you that? The last thing I would want to admit is some guy on a chat room. I wrote an evidently inattentive seller a note simply wishing to bring to his attention that the sell price he had posted on a common 🐓 was considerably less than its prevailing melt price. He thanked me profusely (for my unsolicited second opinion).

[Oldhoopster]

56 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

@Oldhoopster - let's see now, "inappropriate humor" and now "false hope," but it was pefectly okay for that Mint Director of yore to tell that young boy years ago, in substance,, A copper 1943 cent? None were authorized. Now git kid, you botha me.

By your measure, asking a surgeon for a second (or third) opinion is being irresponsible.  I see nothing wrong with seeking additional guidance. Right now, if someone were to ask him what've you got there?  The height of folly would be to say, "I don't know. "But I've been told it's not real."

And if asked, who told you that? The last thing I would want to admit is some guy on a chat room. I wrote an evidently inattentive seller a note simply wishing to bring to his attention that the sell price he had posted on a common 🐓 was considerably less than its prevailing melt price. He thanked me profusely (for my unsolicited second opinion).

Once again, look at some authentic examples and compare it to the OPs coin.  What characteristics do you see that may indicate it warrants further research (especially after the comments of other knowledgeable members)?

 

I will give you credit, however. You somehow manage to work in a comment about French roosters into many of your responses.  I didn't think it was possible to do it in this thread, but you did.  Congratulations.

[Woods020]

4 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

There were plenty of artifacts, coins and bars recovered from shipwrecks.  I do not recall anyone having the audacity to dismiss same with a wave of the hand saying they had never heard of such a refiner or mark, heretofore unknown, or examples of other such unknown numismatica.

Found eight inches down on a Florida beach. Silver. Aged, battered, with foreign inscriptions.  A true collector puts authencity first. There is plenty of time to determine its rarity, and Fair Market Value.

I say make multiple images and be sure to send two to David Vagi of NGC in Las Vegas who, to my knowledge, has never been stumped or vacillated over the most obscure, oldest of coins.

And other thing... how come all the naysayers here had nothing to say about the badly-worn 1837 bust half (sans counterfeit descriptor)  a seasoned member posted recently or was he given a pass because of his exalted status?  My best piece of advice is forward copies of your coin to the biggest and best emporiums and get additional opinions including price range before squandering time and money submitting something you know very little about. I wish you the best of luck!

A couple of times you have made reference to this 1837 bust Half. What is the context? I missed something apparently. 

[Henri Charriere]

3 hours ago, Woods020 said:

A couple of times you have made reference to this 1837 bust Half. What is the context? I missed something apparently. 

Briefly, I expressed an interest in buying a coin posted nonchalantly in the Follow the Lead post, by a long-time member who rules it with an iron hand.

I made him a riciculously generous offer for a bust half that looked to be in deplorable condition: a negative (-3) three on the Sheldon Scale.  Not to be unhinged, by me, a master chiffonier and inarticulate. uneducated collector not worthy of acknowledgment from a professional threadmaster with considerable clout, he deftly brushed me off with a response opening a whole new can of worms: "You wouldn't want it. It's counterfeit." I reported it to management but members who have been around awhile and exercise considerable clout are immune to criticism. He is a task master who runs his thread tightly.  You may not address questions to those who post relics on his thread and if your comments tend to annoy him, he will not PM you -- he will order you to get off his thread and presumably get lost, publicly.  He minces no words.

Asked why this member runs his thread with iron-clad progression and has the audacity to feature a non-genuine coin to which he could have simply said, "the coin is not for sale,.is beyond me.  His incivility is more a reflection of him than me.

Incidentally, if.Joe Hammond is still referred to in 🏀 as "the Destroyer" I see no reason why @Oldhoopster  can't change his moniker to the "Old 🐓 Rooster," Anyway, that's another story. 

 

 

 

[Woods020]

3 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Briefly, I expressed an interest in buying a coin posted nonchalantly in the Follow the Lead post, by a long-time member who rules it with an iron hand.

I made him a riciculously generous offer for a bust half that looked to be in deplorable condition: a negative (-3) three on the Sheldon Scale.  Not to be unhinged, by me, a master chiffonier and inarticulate. uneducated collector not worthy of acknowledgment from a professional threadmaster with considerable clout, he deftly brushed me off with a response opening a whole new can of worms: "You wouldn't want it. It's counterfeit." I reported it to management but members who have been around awhile and exercise considerable clout are immune to criticism. He is a task master who runs his thread tightly.  You may not address questions to those who post relics on his thread and if your comments tend to annoy him, he will not PM you -- he will order you to get off his thread and presumably get lost, publicly.  He minces no words.

Asked why this member runs his thread with iron-clad progression and has the audacity to feature a non-genuine coin to which he could have simply said, "the coin is not for sale,.is beyond me.  His incivility is more a reflection of him than me.

Incidentally, if.Joe Hammond is still referred to in 🏀 as "the Destroyer" I see no reason why @Oldhoopster  can't change his moniker to the "Old 🐓 Rooster," Anyway, that's another story. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the context. No one is aware of this or can read your thoughts. So when you ask the forum “but what about this situation with an 1837 Bust Half” you and one other person know what you mean. 
 

I will say @Oldhoopster was correct though. You do have an uncanny ability to weave in roosters 🐓 into any topic. You have to be seeing clouds shaped like 🐓 at this point. 

[James Zyskowski]

Wow.  Just a lesson I think I’m witnessing but as a newbie sometimes the learning is more about navigating the people who kindly intelligently respond to our questions than the dang coin. Baby steps to some but kind of an awakening to me and note worthy to this collector. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to open up about your personal experiences it adds content that is appreciated 

[Henri Charriere]

3 hours ago, Woods020 said:

I will say @Oldhoopster was correct though. You do have an uncanny ability to weave in roosters 🐓 into any topic. You have to be seeing clouds shaped like 🐓 at this point. 

True, constructive criticism. And to think one seasoned veteran suggested another was obsessed with S-G Double Eagles!  At least that gentleman confines his remarks to the appropriate thread. Good reality check. Many thanx!

[VKurtB]

40 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

True, constructive criticism. And to think one seasoned veteran suggested another was obsessed with S-G Double Eagles!  At least that gentleman confines his remarks to the appropriate thread. Good reality check. Many thanx!

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. This piece is a cruise ship line fantasy piece, or “on board” token of some kind. I’ve seen the commercials for the concept. I don’t care if someone said it’s silver, or osmium, or plutonium. It’s not an old piece.

Edited June 27, 2021 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

[Reading what you've written, and the time and resources you've spent on behalf of the hobby and in pursuit of it, I think it fair to say you missed your real calling in life.

If you truly enjoyed doing what you've done over the course of your life, no loss there, you got paid to do what you love.

I do hope you get to do everything you've wanted to do, complete every project, written every treatise and concocted every potion so you will have the luxury of saying -- in your case "Zink-Zonk," in mine the NYC Sheriff, a petite, armed woman bearing a warrant of evection (2012) standing back ten feet from the door, accompanied by the super with his red lock-changing tool box to whom I smiled, and said: "Please, please, come in! come in!... I've been expecting you.  Just give me three minutes and I'll be on my way..." And I was.  Moderators can be mercurial and temperamental, but there is only one you.  P.S.  I received my request for a cross-grade from NGC an hour ago. The result of that single determination will dictate, in an instant, whether I soldier onward or surrender. Coward that I am, I will open it on July 4th.  All the best!]

[Conder101]

On 6/26/2021 at 10:07 PM, gmarguli said:

. No date, denomination, or anything to indicate a country of origin.

It does have date and denomination,  The second picture is upside down but it does show the 8 for the denomination. and the date appears to be (1)795.  (the 1 is assumed, they only put the last three date digits on the coin.  The 7 is clear, the 9 less so.  The 5 on many of the earlier 8 reales is often just a "squiggle" which is what I think you have here.  If you look to the left of the 9 (remember the image is upside down) you see what could be a "stretched" S.  That's the 5.)  Don't know how they came up with a Lima mintmark out of that mess.  I don't see anything that looks like one.

But it is still a complete fake, absolutely no question.

And KyKoinKollektor, you have learned something else in this thread.  Those three local dealers don't have a clue about Spanish colonial cobs.  Be careful, their knowledge may be lacking in other areas as well.