My Find of the Day 4 4

[Lem E]

3 minutes ago, J P Mashoke said:

Yes I saw the crack when I bought it and thought it may have more stuff now I can see it sure does. I wonder if I should send it out to be regarded.?

Maybe if you wanted to try for the clashed dies attribution.

[Woods020]

If you are going to get into collecting Morgans, you should familiarize yourself with VAMs. I am attaching a link to VAM World which has a nice listing by date for Morgans. There are a buuunch of VAMs on Morgans. The TPGs will only attribute the top 100 or something like that. They wont attribute all of them by any stretch. Anyway it’s fun to figure out which VAM a Morgan has. Some people collect them by VAM, but generally only the rarer ones add any real value. If you match it you can see what that VAM has sold for on eBay. Often times it isn’t with the extra attribution fee, but sometimes it is. 
 

http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compute.amazonaws.com/wiki/Morgan_VAMs_by_Date

[J P M]

Well  I paid $70 for the coin it is worth $150 according to the coin verification lookup? Not sure if it would be worth the cost unless it would increase the value of the coin by a good percentage. But it sure has some cool cracks that die must have been junk after the clash.

[J P M]

[Woods020]

Just now, J P Mashoke said:

Start with VAM 37a2. I’m pretty sure that’s it. But you can verify. 

[Woods020]

4 minutes ago, J P Mashoke said:

Well  I paid $70 for the coin it is worth $150 according to the coin verification lookup? Not sure if it would be worth the cost unless it would increase the value of the coin by a good percentage. But it sure has some cool cracks that die must have been junk after the clash.

Don’t go by the NGC or PCGS price guide. Those are always inflated. This coin was still a good buy at $75, but looking at recent auctions they sell in the $90-$100 range. One went on eBay on 6/21 for $83, but most are going for that $90-$100. Learn how to look up auction realized prices and it will benefit you. Or get a membership to Greysheet. It’s not that expensive and it makes life easier. 

[Alex in PA.]

Nice catch J P.....................

[J P M]

6 minutes ago, Woods020 said:

Start with VAM 37a2. I’m pretty sure that’s it. But you can verify. 

You hit the nail on the head Woods it is that vam all of the photos

[J P M]

I want to thank you all for you help. I think I did ok with this coin. A nice luster 1884-0 MS64 and a Vam37 A2 found by Woods 020 to go with it

Edited June 23, 2021 by J P Mashoke

[Jeremy468]

On 6/22/2021 at 6:58 PM, Woods020 said:

Don’t go by the NGC or PCGS price guide. 

So what would you and others recommend for reliable value/pricing information?

Before finding online price guides, I began using Redbook and got my 2022 copy practically as soon as it was available. It seemed to be a good starting point, but then came across the pricing at usacoinbook.com, PCGS, and NCG. Sometimes they are roughly in line with each other and with Redbook, other times of course one or two differ significantly from the others. Sometimes Redbook is higher, other times it is lower. Of course Redbook is already a few months out of date once a new edition becomes available which had led me to try to rely on the online sites more, in addition to thinking that the prices were influenced by auction prices and supposed to represent retail prices.

I understand that dealers use greysheet, so I paid for an online copy of that a few weeks ago and it was my impression that it was more representative of value to dealers or what they would pay. The online copy is a bit cumbersome to use, but of course the printed copy would surely be easier to use, but obviously pricey.

On top of that, I purchased CoinManage last week to keep inventory of my growing collection, and of course it has its own default values. With all of these, the largest differences most often occur with higher grades in addition to gold and larger silver coins like Morgans.

So any advice would be greatly appreciated, and I would suspect that most new collectors would appreciate the information also.

Just an example for a 1926 Quarter Eagle in AU50: Redbook $400, USA $507, PCGS $550, $500, GS June $370, CoinManage $350.

[Henri Charriere]

8 minutes ago, Jeremy468 said:

I would suspect that most new collectors would appreciate the information also.

Just an example for a 1926 Quarter Eagle in AU50: Redbook $400, USA $507, PCGS $550, $500, GS June $370, CoinManage $350.

Warning:  the following comment(s) may be insensitive and downright offensive to viewers. Act accordingly. 

Addressing the OP's question indirectly, I have a question of my own: A coin is being auctioned off. There are only three active bidders + one on the phone.  The final price is $18.9 million. Simple question:  What is its Fair Market Value?

To a person like me, zero. I don't buy grotesquely damaged coins, unique or not. To others, they don't buy coins sight unseen or via internet. Does the Red Book include descriptions of coins such as strike quality (weak or strong) state of preservation, original mint luster (if applicable) color (such as, frosty gem with a bright honey golden hue) a brief descriptor like "sharp devices" or "smooth fields" or "prominent high point details" and attractiveness (exceptional, dazzling eye appeal, among others? 

How about the entire range of defects?

Complicating matters apparently are TPGS, which very often assign conflicting grades which is not surprising since there are scores of both opinions and grades. And then there are plus ➕ signs and 🌟 stars with other grading services assessing the grades of others, by affirming, elevating or rejecting them.

Bear in mind, there are collectors like me for whom price for a specific coin is no object. Hence, a cacophony of numbers much as you would encounter on a stock exchange floor. I wish you the best of luck!

[Woods020]

2 hours ago, Jeremy468 said:

So what would you and others recommend for reliable value/pricing information?

Before finding online price guides, I began using Redbook and got my 2022 copy practically as soon as it was available. It seemed to be a good starting point, but then came across the pricing at usacoinbook.com, PCGS, and NCG. Sometimes they are roughly in line with each other and with Redbook, other times of course one or two differ significantly from the others. Sometimes Redbook is higher, other times it is lower. Of course Redbook is already a few months out of date once a new edition becomes available which had led me to try to rely on the online sites more, in addition to thinking that the prices were influenced by auction prices and supposed to represent retail prices.

I understand that dealers use greysheet, so I paid for an online copy of that a few weeks ago and it was my impression that it was more representative of value to dealers or what they would pay. The online copy is a bit cumbersome to use, but of course the printed copy would surely be easier to use, but obviously pricey.

On top of that, I purchased CoinManage last week to keep inventory of my growing collection, and of course it has its own default values. With all of these, the largest differences most often occur with higher grades in addition to gold and larger silver coins like Morgans.

So any advice would be greatly appreciated, and I would suspect that most new collectors would appreciate the information also.

Just an example for a 1926 Quarter Eagle in AU50: Redbook $400, USA $507, PCGS $550, $500, GS June $370, CoinManage $350.

There is no perfect answer. The best gauge in my opinion is what coins in similar grade are selling for. Aside from that Greysheet is based off recent sales, but often times the last sale they list is years old. But as far as a simple price look up I think it’s most accurate. Its what a lot of dealers use. They (dealers) pay more blue price if they are buying or less. 
 

In summary:

1. Most price guides are inflated. Many largely so. (PCGS/NGC/Redbook). 
 

2. There is a marked difference between market value (retail) and what a dealer will pay. 
 

3. For retail/market price look at recent sold auction results or Greysheet. Remember you will have to deduct costs of selling if auctioned. This also will take into account market shifts as it’s possible other price guides could be low if something gets hot. 
 

4. If selling wholesale/dealer look more at blue book prices or slightly less. Expect about 50% of retail give or take from a dealer. Somewhat situational. 
 

Add in eye appeal/CAC/toning/etc. and a coin could go way above others in the grade. A good example is a nicely toned Buffalo Nickel will often times sell or 2x/3x others in the same grade. It’s not an exact science and things are worth what someone will pay for it. Knowing the market is a big step in “guesstimating” accurately. 
 

 

*Greysheet has a phone app if it helps. It’s not the best app I’ve seen, but it’s convenient to click on it on my phone. It doesn’t say they have one on their website that I saw, but a search in the App Store reveals they do. 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Woods020

[VKurtB]

2 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Warning:  the following comment(s) may be insensitive and downright offensive to viewers. Act accordingly. 

Addressing the OP's question indirectly, I have a question of my own: A coin is being auctioned off. There are only three active bidders + one on the phone.  The final price is $18.9 million. Simple question:  What is its Fair Market Value?

To a person like me, zero. I don't buy grotesquely damaged coins, unique or not. To others, they don't buy coins sight unseen or via internet. Does the Red Book include descriptions of coins such as strike quality (weak or strong) state of preservation, original mint luster (if applicable) color (such as, frosty gem with a bright honey golden hue) a brief descriptor like "sharp devices" or "smooth fields" or "prominent high point details" and attractiveness (exceptional, dazzling eye appeal, among others? 

How about the entire range of defects?

Complicating matters apparently are TPGS, which very often assign conflicting grades which is not surprising since there are scores of both opinions and grades. And then there are plus ➕ signs and 🌟 stars with other grading services assessing the grades of others, by affirming, elevating or rejecting them.

Bear in mind, there are collectors like me for whom price for a specific coin is no object. Hence, a cacophony of numbers much as you would encounter on a stock exchange floor. I wish you the best of luck!

The FMV is $18.9 million. Easy Peasy. 

[James Zyskowski]

I am fairly new but for kinda realistic idea of value is for me to check eBay sold prices. Then for entertainment I compare the price guides in numismatic news, coin world and red book and sometimes laugh or cry but mostly I’m learning that of the 3 take 50percent off and your fairly close?  Kinda.  The eBay sold working the best so far. This tidbit is changing as I learn more about grading 😂(it’s so hard)

[J P M]

Well look what I found today at a antique dealer hiding on a shelf in the back marked $8.00 Type 2 1981 CAM  

[Mr.Bill347]

Jim you sure can find the bargains!

great finds! 

[J P M]

Today is a lucky day! I never find silver in change anymore but we stopped for Ice Cream after dinner tonight and I got this in my change, someone's dad is going to be mad.

[Mr.Bill347]

My finds today. 1922 D and 1926 S wheat cents and a 1868 Three cent Nickel. Just 15 cents left to find for my complete penny collection from 1909-2021, but oh those 15 cents are gonna cost me. :0)

[J P M]

1 hour ago, Mr.Bill347 said:

My finds today. 1922 D and 1926 S wheat cents and a 1868 Three cent Nickel. Just 15 cents left to find for my complete penny collection from 1909-2021, but oh those 15 cents are gonna cost me. :0)

What Dates are you looking for Bill ? are they big bucks?

[Mr.Bill347]

JP yes the 15 I need can be pricey The 1916s is about $40 in XF

the 1909S VDB is ridiculous and the 1914d I may get for a hundred bucks or so. Need mostly 1911 1912 1913

Now.

[Rummy13]

On 7/3/2021 at 6:01 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

My finds today. 1922 D and 1926 S wheat cents and a 1868 Three cent Nickel. Just 15 cents left to find for my complete penny collection from 1909-2021, but oh those 15 cents are gonna cost me. :0)

I know what you mean about price. I need three more and they will cost me more than all the others combined.

 

[J P M]

Got another sweet deal today for $65 ,the slab is a little scratched but a MS63 is ok by me

[Henri Charriere]

What about the redaction? What exactly are you, and other collectors afraid of?

[J P M]

7 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

What about the redaction? What exactly are you, and other collectors afraid of?

I see a lot of people blank out the bar code numbers to help keep the counterfeiting down to a minimum ? The bad guys are copying slabs now Quintus.

[Henri Charriere]

1 minute ago, J P Mashoke said:

I see a lot of people blank out the bar code numbers to help keep the counterfeiting down to a minimum ? The bad guys are copying slabs now Quintus.

Well they will have a problem now what with the security chips embedded in slabs with Near Field Technology [NFT] One swipe with a smart phone is all it will take.  (Plus, for Set Registrants, a 3-day waiting period is mandatory before a slab can be added allowing the previous owner or seller time to confirm the legitimacy of the transfer. Nice Morgan and a nice grade!

[J P M]

On 7/9/2021 at 4:12 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Well they will have a problem now what with the security chips embedded in slabs with Near Field Technology [NFT] One swipe with a smart phone is all it will take.  (Plus, for Set Registrants, a 3-day waiting period is mandatory before a slab can be added allowing the previous owner or seller time to confirm the legitimacy of the transfer. Nice Morgan and a nice grade!

Yes the new slabs will be harder but most of the stuff I am getting is older slab coins. NGC is pretty quick with the registry I submitted 3 coins yesterday and got approval this morning. Yes thanks for the complement Quintus the 1881 is a coin I have been looking around for at a good price. Not that it is rare coin far from it but I like the palindromic number and it seams others do also so it pushes the price up a bit at most dealers. Plus it is another MS to add to my Morgan collection I am trying to get one of each Morgan MS slab grade from 60 to 69 so far I have  a MS 63,64,65 the lower numbers left to get will be more reasonable than the last  higher grades 66,68, and 69 may be out of my ballpark I would think ,we will see.   

Edited July 11, 2021 by J P Mashoke

[Mr.Bill347]

Here’s a cool find, an 1893 Columbian exposition half dollar coin from several hundred coins from all over the world. Germany,Austria,Panama, Chile, France, Britain, Caribbean, Morocco all very interesting plus a 1922 and 1923 peace dollar. I get to keep the Columbian exposition  coin for my efforts. 

[James Zyskowski]

On 7/10/2021 at 6:19 AM, J P Mashoke said:

Yes the new slabs will be harder but most of the stuff I am getting is older slab coins. NGC is pretty quick with the registry I submitted 3 coins yesterday and got approval this morning. Yes thanks for the complement Quintus the 1881 is a coin I have been looking around for at a good price. Not that it is rare coin far from it but I like the palindromic number and it seams others do also so it pushes the price up a bit at most dealers. Plus it is another MS to add to my Morgan collection I am trying to get one of each Morgan MS slab grade from 60 to 69 so far I have  a MS 63,64,65 the lower numbers left to get will be more reasonable than the last  higher grades 66,68, and 69 may be out of my ballpark I would think ,we will see.   

Thank goodness the new Morgan’s will provide the 67-69 you need plus the almighty 70 will now be attainable. This ofcourse is the doorway to the original vs modern acceptance debate 

Edited July 11, 2021 by James Zyskowski

[J P M]

2 hours ago, James Zyskowski said:

Thank goodness the new Morgan’s will provide the 67-69 you need plus the almighty 70 will now be attainable. This ofcourse is the doorway to the original vs modern acceptance debate 

I myself would not consider a new Morgan or Peace part of any older collection, to me it is a commemorative coin celebrating the 100th anniversary of the original coins. Unless of course they are going to continue to produce them every year and then it would be in it's own collection.  I will eventually pick up a 2021 but for now I will look at my 1921

[Mr.Bill347]

That is one beautiful coin JP