New security features plus an increase demand for gold 0

[Zebo]

Interesting article on the new security features being offered by the Royal Mint and a statement on the increased demand for gold.

The Royal Mint on Sept. 28 unveiled what officials there are calling the world’s most visually secure bullion coin. 

These new security features are debuting on the 2021 Britannia gold and silver coins. The Britannia range contains four innovative security features, which enable customers to verify that the product is authentic by rotating it in the light.

The features include:

Latent image: First introduced on the £2 coin, the latent image acts like a hologram and changes from a padlock to a trident when the coin is seen from different angles.

Surface Animation: Micro details on the coin combine to create the illusion of waves rolling behind the figure of Britannia. These are created using advanced picosecond lasers, and come to life as the coin is rotated. 

Micro-text: The addition of the inscription DECUS ET TUTAMEN, which translates to “an ornament and a safeguard,” surrounds the figure of Britannia and is created using specialist lasers. 

Tincture lines: To reinforce security, the Royal Mint has reintroduced the traditional art of tincture lines — depicting colors and patterns on metal.

The Royal Mint was one of the first mints in the world to use advanced picosecond lasers — used in medicine and aerospace — for the production of coins, the Royal Mint said. This technology enables the Royal Mint to work on a submicron level, creating complex designs using indents which are 200 times narrower than the width of a human hair.

Increased demand for gold

Demand for gold has significantly increased over the last six months as investors look for ways to diversify their portfolio through “safe haven” assets such as precious metals. 

Andrew Dickey, divisional director of precious metals for the Royal Mint, said, in a press release, “Our precious metals division has experienced its busiest year on record, and we know that investors value the trust and authenticity that comes with a Royal Mint product. We have seen demand for gold increase significantly since March 2020, which has included a large proportion of customers investing in gold for the first time as they diversify their portfolios.”

The Royal Mint has seen website sales of Britannia gold coins increase by 236 percent from April 1 to September 2020, when compared with the same period last year. 

UK net gold bar and coin demand in the period of April to June increased 86 percent when compared to the same period last year according to data from the World Gold Council.

[RWB]

RE: Demand for gold has significantly increased over the last six months as investors look for ways to diversify their portfolio through “safe haven” assets such as precious metals.

Demand might have increased, but the "reason" is specious. The only safe havens are food, shelter and protection. Gold, silver, platinum, etc. have arbitrary values - not utilitarian values.

[World Colonial]

Gold is historically overpriced versus the things people actually need to buy.  Silver is within prior historical range.

Financially, the primary benefit both have is that neither are someone else's liability and subject to direct counterparty exposure.  Most "assets" are actually someone else's debt.  Stocks (especially US) are ridiculously overpriced from the greatest bubble in the history of civilization.  The company can also go bankrupt and is subject to expropriation, either partially or fully.  Real estate depending upon the type has practical utility (grow food, natural resource extraction or to build shelter) but is also historically overpriced and subject to expropriation or vandalism.

However, for those buying gold in particular in anticipation of a future financial "reset", they are going to have to be nimble and pay attention because ultimately decades from now, it's likely to lose noticeable proportion of its current purchasing power.

[Zebo]

6 hours ago, RWB said:

RE: Demand for gold has significantly increased over the last six months as investors look for ways to diversify their portfolio through “safe haven” assets such as precious metals.

Demand might have increased, but the "reason" is specious. The only safe havens are food, shelter and protection. Gold, silver, platinum, etc. have arbitrary values - not utilitarian values.

As Warren Buffet says form time to time --- buy farm land and you can be self sufficient. 

Edited October 11, 2020 by Zebo

[Moxie15]

4 hours ago, RWB said:

RE: Demand for gold has significantly increased over the last six months as investors look for ways to diversify their portfolio through “safe haven” assets such as precious metals.

Demand might have increased, but the "reason" is specious. The only safe havens are food, shelter and protection. Gold, silver, platinum, etc. have arbitrary values - not utilitarian values.

I read an article written by a man, or told by him to a journalist, that was stuck in Serbia during the disaster of a war there. He told how the only things of value were foods, not just any food though. Things like coffee, sugar, chocolate, cheese, and booze. He claimed a pound of coffee could buy you a gun and all the ammo you could possibly carry. Cigarettes were also valuable beyond just about anything.  I scoff at the fools who think pre 1982 cents will be of value when the feces hits the air conditioner.

[numisport]

17 minutes ago, Moxie15 said:

I read an article written by a man, or told by him to a journalist, that was stuck in Serbia during the disaster of a war there. He told how the only things of value were foods, not just any food though. Things like coffee, sugar, chocolate, cheese, and booze. He claimed a pound of coffee could buy you a gun and all the ammo you could possibly carry. Cigarettes were also valuable beyond just about anything.  I scoff at the fools who think pre 1982 cents will be of value when the feces hits the air conditioner.

You may scoff but air conditioners are made of copper too and thugs like to steal them.

[Coinbuf]

Might be kinda cool looking, many years ago I bought a gold coin form the Canadian mint that had a prismatic hologram on it.  I'm not much for colorized coins in general but this was somewhat unique and I do enjoy viewing that coin when I stop by the bank box.

[RWB]

4 hours ago, Moxie15 said:

I read an article written by a man, or told by him to a journalist, that was stuck in Serbia during the disaster of a war there. He told how the only things of value were foods, not just any food though. Things like coffee, sugar, chocolate, cheese, and booze. He claimed a pound of coffee could buy you a gun and all the ammo you could possibly carry. Cigarettes were also valuable beyond just about anything.  I scoff at the fools who think pre 1982 cents will be of value when the feces hits the air conditioner.

American and British soldier experiences in WW-I and WW-II are similar. A small town in Italy could become an instant safe-haven if a squad passed out cigarettes, K-rations, coffee, chocolate and liquor. Declassified Army medical records indicate that a lot of cases of VD, and town infections, came from 1 to 1 distribution of as little as one can of meat (including Spam), or a blanket, or something for children. My Dad was in India, Burma and China in WW-II - he had stories and photos of persistent solicitation by women, girls and boys trading sex for a few annas, or food, or cigarettes.

As the US discovered in Vietnam, the pilot emergency kits containing gold coins were dangerous. Any local found with a gold coin was instantly shot, and the coins bought no rice or pilot protection because of the scarcity of food and the fear of death.

Gold bugs tend to be attracted to shiny things -- much like crows and ravens -- but are equally devoid of assessing real value.

Edited October 11, 2020 by RWB

[MAULEMALL]

51 minutes ago, RWB said:

American and British soldier experiences in WW-I and WW-II are similar. A small town in Italy could become an instant safe-haven if a squad passed out cigarettes, K-rations, coffee, chocolate and liquor. Declassified Army medical records indicate that a lot of cases of VD, and town infections, came from 1 to 1 distribution of as little as one can of meat (including Spam), or a blanket, or something for children. My Dad was in India, Burma and China in WW-II - he had stories and photos of persistent solicitation by women, girls and boys trading sex for a few annas, or food, or cigarettes.

As the US discovered in Vietnam, the pilot emergency kits containing gold coins were dangerous. Any local found with a gold coin was instantly shot, and the coins bought no rice or pilot protection because of the scarcity of food and the fear of death.

Gold bugs tend to be attracted to shiny things -- much like crows and ravens -- but are equally devoid of assessing real value.

Do you have verified evidence of this or is this just more pontificating?

I ask because being a Veteran of 7 years in the airwing of the Marine corps of  that time period we knew they hadn't packed gold since WW2..  Maybe it's an oversite on your part..

Although some of the Men I trained when I was a Drill Instructor @ Parris Island SC told me that they did for the desert storm op..

Can't say thats 100% but ...

http://www.survivalreadyblog.com/uploads/1/4/1/2/1412634/military-survival-kits.pdf

 

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by MAULEMALL

[GoldFinger1969]

10 hours ago, RWB said:

RE: Demand for gold has significantly increased over the last six months as investors look for ways to diversify their portfolio through “safe haven” assets such as precious metals.

Demand might have increased, but the "reason" is specious. The only safe havens are food, shelter and protection. Gold, silver, platinum, etc. have arbitrary values - not utilitarian values.

People have held it for 2,000 years so they feel comfortable holding it another 20-40 years.

It's easily portable and you can get a nice stash of value in a suitcase.

[MAULEMALL]

6 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

People have held it for 2,000 years so they feel comfortable holding it another 20-40 years.

It's easily portable and you can get a nice stash of value in a suitcase.

100% correct ,I was wondering where rwb got his info.. It seems to be off...

[RWB]

7 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

People have held it for 2,000 years so they feel comfortable holding it another 20-40 years.

It's easily portable and you can get a nice stash of value in a suitcase.

True....But in times of severe crisis, people bury the stuff and hope to live to recover their hoard when times are better. Never heard of anyone burying a T-bone steak, hoping to come back in a year or two and have a meal.

:)

It truth gold, silver etc. and not "stores of value" but merely convenient tokens representing the utilitarian value of property.

[comicdonna]

I am a huge fan of gold but, never desired to own it for use in trade for necessities.  

[zadok]

...I would beg to differ...food, booze, trinkets, candy, cigarettes, nylons etc may provide a basis for localized barter in  times of stress but hardly equate to stores of value...hard specie i.e. gold will always be more advantageous as a medium to obtain life essentials...during the pre thru post Vietnam war era Asian women migrating away from the areas of stress wore all the gold they could carry, im not aware of any instances of them carrying kegs of beer or bags of beans or the family cow with them in their departures...gold has been THE store of value for the past two millennia, medieval kings, feudal lords, emperors, knights templars et al derived their power n influence from their gold reserves, they did not pay their mercenaries in beef, mead or crumpets...countries with strong gold reserves still rule the roost...of course if one were on mars or the moon, its true that gold might not be preferable to oxygen or water...there is a dichotomy in these discussions; persons in areas of stress i.e. war zones that have no hope of escape obviously need to make it from day to day n need those necessities n can not drink nor eat gold, there must be required goods available for exchange, but for those with hope of escape gold will be their number one store of value to take with them...my father was also in the CBI theatre of operations during ww2 n the locals preferred the US dollar n British pound n in some instances mpc notes over all else...cigarettes n chocolates were just items of favor that were normally just given away...gold , land n maybe gunpowder continue to remain king....

[MAULEMALL]

1 hour ago, zadok said:

...I would beg to differ...food, booze, trinkets, candy, cigarettes, nylons etc may provide a basis for localized barter in  times of stress but hardly equate to stores of value...hard specie i.e. gold will always be more advantageous as a medium to obtain life essentials...during the pre thru post Vietnam war era Asian women migrating away from the areas of stress wore all the gold they could carry, im not aware of any instances of them carrying kegs of beer or bags of beans or the family cow with them in their departures...gold has been THE store of value for the past two millennia, medieval kings, feudal lords, emperors, knights templars et al derived their power n influence from their gold reserves, they did not pay their mercenaries in beef, mead or crumpets...countries with strong gold reserves still rule the roost...of course if one were on mars or the moon, its true that gold might not be preferable to oxygen or water...there is a dichotomy in these discussions; persons in areas of stress i.e. war zones that have no hope of escape obviously need to make it from day to day n need those necessities n can not drink nor eat gold, there must be required goods available for exchange, but for those with hope of escape gold will be their number one store of value to take with them...my father was also in the CBI theatre of operations during ww2 n the locals preferred the US dollar n British pound n in some instances mpc notes over all else...cigarettes n chocolates were just items of favor that were normally just given away...gold , land n maybe gunpowder continue to remain king....

He is wrong about a lot 

[Moxie15]

I think that most people are forgetting an important point or two in much of this discussion.

In World War II when you, your father, or grandfather was in Italy or France their government and economy were nonexistent. The German government had no standing outside of their own Reich so the only money worth anything at all was the money of the current occupiers, The British and Americans.  

In my experience the preppers and doomsday believers are preparing for the fall of the US government. So if the government has collapsed and war has ravaged the cities and towns and you are in Smalltown America with the nearest store is six miles away with mostly bare shelves, no fuel available, it is 10 below, and your kids have not eaten in three days. You place 16 Gold eagles in a bag and walk to the store. After a 2 and half hour trudge through snow and ice how many loafs of bread will your bag of gold buy?

[RWB]

The commonly quoted "store of value" attribute is equivalent to DeBeers' "a diamond is forever" conundrum. As Moxie 15 noted "value" is relative. The only gold value is if someone who has necessities will exchange for shiny metal bits.

Collecting gold coins as a hobby, or maybe as something to emulate Scrooge McDuck and run your hands through cold metal is fine. But do not  - ever - expect to feed your family with it.

[GoldFinger1969]

10 minutes ago, RWB said:

The commonly quoted "store of value" attribute is equivalent to DeBeers' "a diamond is forever" conundrum. As Moxie 15 noted "value" is relative. The only gold value is if someone who has necessities will exchange for shiny metal bits. Collecting gold coins as a hobby, or maybe as something to emulate Scrooge McDuck and run your hands through cold metal is fine. But do not  - ever - expect to feed your family with it.

x 1,000,000 !!!  

[GoldFinger1969]

These security features on new bullion coins are VERY interesting.  Would seem to really raise the bar for counterfeiters -- you just can't make a pico-laser with spare parts.  Takes serious $$$$.

[World Colonial]

In times and conditions of extreme scarcity, the same comments could be made about any form of "money".  Obviously, under these circumstances, no one with any common sense will exchange something with no utility value whatsoever ("money") for the basic essentials of survival. 

This exaggeration doesn't change the fact that gold (or silver) has traditionally been the best store of value relative to anything else.  In the current environment, it's not as liquid as "hard currency" folding money but that's temporary situation.

Edited October 12, 2020 by World Colonial

[GoldFinger1969]

Collapsed or ruined economies, devestating wars on their home territory, hyper-inflation, looting of national treasuries -- they are all commonplace in the last 125 years for Europe and most of Central/South America. 

Not so for the United States. 

[thebeav]

On 10/12/2020 at 11:43 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

These security features on new bullion coins are VERY interesting.  Would seem to really raise the bar for counterfeiters -- you just can't make a pico-laser with spare parts.  Takes serious $$$$.

I think these features are no more than sales gimmicks.

It's quite simple to measure and weigh a bullion coin. When these two parameters are correct, you know what the piece must be made of.

[World Colonial]

1 hour ago, thebeav said:

I think these features are no more than sales gimmicks.

It's quite simple to measure and weigh a bullion coin. When these two parameters are correct, you know what the piece must be made of.

I own several Fisch Instrument wallets which perform the test you describe.  Tests the width, diameter and weight.

They also make a "ringer" instrument which purportedly tests the sound the metal gives off as additional authenticity confirmation.  I do not own this device or ever used it. 

There must be a reason they thought it was necessary.  My recollection is that it's purpose is to detect counterfeits with Tungsten, though I do not remember this specifically and don't know it's relative weight versus gold..

[RWB]

RE: "This exaggeration doesn't change the fact that gold (or silver) has traditionally been the best store of value relative to anything else.  In the current environment, it's not as liquid as "hard currency" folding money but that's temporary situation."

Traditional comment. Not actually true. Ask any old-time banker about keeping gold as a required reserve - they hated it, and dumped it as quickly as possible. Gold simply sits. It does nothing, contributes nothing, earns nothing, and profits no one except the middleman who is quick to flip it. Bullion sellers/buyers do not hold it - they dump it as fast as possible. If it's such as good "store of value" then they should want to hold a lot and preserve "value."  DeBeers and Alrosa (the Russian cartel) hold diamonds to inflate price - to "store value" by restricting trade. There is no organized analog for gold. Commercial users buy at negotiated prices - not the "spot market." Hoarders merely relinquish interest, capital gain and potential financial gain from free capital, buy sticking the stuff in mattress holes or the in the fake ice cream box in a home freezer.

"Store of Value" is the grinding tune played in an expensive game of musical chairs.

[Zebo]

9 hours ago, World Colonial said:

I own several Fisch Instrument wallets which perform the test you describe.  Tests the width, diameter and weight.

Haven't heard anyone mention Fisch wallets in a long time. Did you obtain them in the 70s or 80s? I forget when they first came out, 

[Zebo]

7 hours ago, RWB said:

"Store of Value" is the grinding tune played in an expensive game of musical chairs.

It's all in the timing. 

[GoldFinger1969]

14 hours ago, thebeav said:

I think these features are no more than sales gimmicks.  It's quite simple to measure and weigh a bullion coin. When these two parameters are correct, you know what the piece must be made of.

I beg to differ.  I believe there are other metals that mimick the weight and density of gold that you just can't weigh them when dealing with "good" counterfeiters.

These "rolling waves" are difficult to produce as is the hologram-like picture.  I'd want to see them in-hand but they seem to be the equivalent of the hidden strips in our currency introduced 20 years ago.

[World Colonial]

4 hours ago, Zebo said:

Haven't heard anyone mention Fisch wallets in a long time. Did you obtain them in the 70s or 80s? I forget when they first came out, 

No, sometime around 2005.  And it isn't cheap either.  I have four or five of the wallets which cost about $400.  Bought it directly from the company.

[World Colonial]

1 hour ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I beg to differ.  I believe there are other metals that mimick the weight and density of gold that you just can't weigh them when dealing with "good" counterfeiters.

These "rolling waves" are difficult to produce as is the hologram-like picture.  I'd want to see them in-hand but they seem to be the equivalent of the hidden strips in our currency introduced 20 years ago.

My inference also.  I have not read up on it but it's my understanding that modern counterfeits use tungsten to fool the Fisch wallets which is why they came out with the "ringer".  Different sound for different metals apparently.  I still intend to buy this "ringer" but have not got around to it.

High metal prices bring out more and better criminals.  Not aware it's a problem for silver yet but it could or will be if the dreams of the metal bugs ever come true.

Edited October 14, 2020 by World Colonial

[World Colonial]

12 hours ago, RWB said:

RE: "This exaggeration doesn't change the fact that gold (or silver) has traditionally been the best store of value relative to anything else.  In the current environment, it's not as liquid as "hard currency" folding money but that's temporary situation."

Traditional comment. Not actually true. Ask any old-time banker about keeping gold as a required reserve - they hated it, and dumped it as quickly as possible. Gold simply sits. It does nothing, contributes nothing, earns nothing, and profits no one except the middleman who is quick to flip it. Bullion sellers/buyers do not hold it - they dump it as fast as possible. If it's such as good "store of value" then they should want to hold a lot and preserve "value."  DeBeers and Alrosa (the Russian cartel) hold diamonds to inflate price - to "store value" by restricting trade. There is no organized analog for gold. Commercial users buy at negotiated prices - not the "spot market." Hoarders merely relinquish interest, capital gain and potential financial gain from free capital, buy sticking the stuff in mattress holes or the in the fake ice cream box in a home freezer.

"Store of Value" is the grinding tune played in an expensive game of musical chairs.

Of course bankers hated it, because they love fractional reserve lending and the lack of financial discipline that goes with it.  They also love deposit insurance now because it also institutionalizes unsafe and unsound banking practices which to this point has allowed banks to get away with excessive leverage and lending to deadbeat borrowers who would never get a loan in an economic system with stable money. 

Perpetual inflation allows banks to lend to deadbeats who get bailed by cheating savers out of their savings.  These deadbeats who couldn't get loans in the past didn't miraculously become credit worthy borrowers because current bankers are so much smarter.

Bullion speculators are exactly that, speculators.  They don't care how they make their profits.

The ones who care are mostly average middle class individuals who are trying to preserve what they have, not participate in the modern casino we call a financial system.

I'm not a "metal bug".  I equally know that this fiat ponzi financial system we have is destined for a catastrophic system failure once confidence evaporates due to moral hazard mostly created by government policy.