Mark Kratzer Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 (edited) I ordered a proof 5oz Lowell Massachusetts America the beautiful hockey puck and it came to me with visible signs of scratching along the circle of the writing on the Jefferson front as well as scratches to the breast. Should I return this to the mint or could this be even more collectible now? Thanks in advance, Mark Edited April 14, 2019 by Mark Kratzer Added pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_dac Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 I would return it. You want your best shot for a PF70. Mark Kratzer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawtomatic Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Ya know, the part about would this be more collectible made me chuckle. Only because earlier today I was thinking of modern proofs and deep/ultra cameo designations and such and amused myself with the clever little thought that at this point a non-cameo issue proof would be the exception and qualify for condition rarity. The census reports are quite interesting in that regard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conder101 Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Why would you think being damaged after it was struck would make it more collectible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BipolarBaby Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 11 hours ago, Mark Kratzer said: I ordered a proof 5oz Lowell Massachusetts America the beautiful hockey puck and it came to me with visible signs of scratching along the circle of the writing on the Jefferson front as well as scratches to the breast. Should I return this to the mint or could this be even more collectible now? Thanks in advance, Mark return it senior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kratzer Posted April 14, 2019 Author Share Posted April 14, 2019 5 hours ago, Conder101 said: Why would you think being damaged after it was struck would make it more collectible? Because when coins come off the line with errors they are often worth more. Did I have to explain that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BipolarBaby Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 I dont see what the error is here? The coin has significant scratches as you've stated. What about scratches makes it an error? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokiechan Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Do you mean clash marks or something similar and are just using the generic term scratches? Because as Condor 101 said " Why would you think being damaged after it was struck would make it more collectible?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_dac Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 3 hours ago, Mark Kratzer said: Because when coins come off the line with errors they are often worth more. Did I have to explain that? Errors, maybe, ‘damage after strike’ as Condor noted, never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 4 hours ago, Mark Kratzer said: Because when coins come off the line with errors they are often worth more. Did I have to explain that? That response was a bit rude in my opinion. Conder101 asked a legitimate question, and if I know him, was probably trying to determine from your response whether it was indeed a scratch, or if it was something else, like a die crack. A scratch on a coin is not an error. Mark Kratzer and Matt_dac 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kratzer Posted April 14, 2019 Author Share Posted April 14, 2019 10 hours ago, Conder101 said: Why would you think being damaged after it was struck would make it more collectible? This was during striking, not after. See attached near the end of America, that circle goes part way around the coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kratzer Posted April 14, 2019 Author Share Posted April 14, 2019 11 minutes ago, Just Bob said: That response was a bit rude in my opinion. Conder101 asked a legitimate question, and if I know him, was probably trying to determine from your response whether it was indeed a scratch, or if it was something else, like a die crack. A scratch on a coin is not an error. OMG, I never said coin was damaged after strike. His comment was rude and assumed that I was mistakenly even asking a question. If people on this beginner board are that intolerant, then maybe they should just hang out with the experts? Matt_dac 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kratzer Posted April 14, 2019 Author Share Posted April 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, Just Bob said: That response was a bit rude in my opinion. Conder101 asked a legitimate question, and if I know him, was probably trying to determine from your response whether it was indeed a scratch, or if it was something else, like a die crack. A scratch on a coin is not an error. Here is his reply - Why would you think being damaged after it was struck would make it more collectible? I never said the coin was damaged after striking. I asked a simple question just seeking info on if I should return the item die to scratching that's all. I've added a pic now that shows some of the scratch and I should have done that before but remember, this is a beginners thread so please have patience and don't pass judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kratzer Posted April 14, 2019 Author Share Posted April 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Mokiechan said: Do you mean clash marks or something similar and are just using the generic term scratches? Because as Condor 101 said " Why would you think being damaged after it was struck would make it more collectible?". Look at the original question please as I never said it was damaged AFTER striking. It came from he Mint in the condition noted. I now added a photo that shows part of the circular scratch. Look at the A at the end of America. That scratch kinda goes circular around more than half seen at certain light angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Just Bob Posted April 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 14, 2019 10 minutes ago, Mark Kratzer said: OMG, I never said coin was damaged after strike. His comment was rude and assumed that I was mistakenly even asking a question. If people on this beginner board are that intolerant, then maybe they should just hang out with the experts? I think you are missing the point. It does not matter if you said that it was damaged. If it is indeed a scratch, it happened after the strike, and is not considered an error, but is considered damage. Whether it was scratched one millisecond or one hundred years after it was struck, it was still after the strike, and thus is not considered an error. No one is trying to give you a hard time or pass judgement, we just don't always make ourselves clear. coinsandmedals, Crawtomatic and BipolarBaby 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kratzer Posted April 14, 2019 Author Share Posted April 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Just Bob said: I think you are missing the point. It does not matter if you said that it was damaged. If it is indeed a scratch, it happened after the strike, and is not considered an error, but is considered damage. Whether it was scratched one millisecond or one hundred years after it was struck, it was still after the strike, and thus is not considered an error. No one is trying to give you a hard time or pass judgement, we just don't always make ourselves clear. Look at the pic? It wasn't damaged after strike because you can see the circular scratching the coin was made by a machine. The line goes perfectly through the United States of America inscription and blank areas so that's not made by a person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 (edited) I guess I am doing a poor job of explaining. When the hammer die reaches the end of its travel, the coin is considered struck. Once the die starts retracting, and begins its return to the resting position, anything that happens to the coin is considered to be after the strike. Whether the coin gets scratched by a part of the machine or by a person makes no difference. "After the strike" means at any point after the point of striking, not after it leaves the press. Edited April 15, 2019 by Just Bob Cleaning up the typing and spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kratzer Posted April 14, 2019 Author Share Posted April 14, 2019 35 minutes ago, Just Bob said: I think you are missing the point. It does not matter if you said that it was damaged. If it is indeed a scratch, it happened after the strike, and is not considered an error, but is considered damage. Whether it was scratched one millisecond or one hundred years after it was struck, it was still after the strike, and thus is not considered an error. No one is trying to give you a hard time or pass judgement, we just don't always make ourselves clear. Oh, well that makes all the sense in the world. So then I should initiate a return. Thank you very much sorry for the miscommunication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 I mostly collect old lumber company and trade tokens, and scratches are usually "par for the course." Therefore, they don't bother me a whole lot in that situation. On a new coin, though, I would be very disappointed. I would send it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kratzer Posted April 14, 2019 Author Share Posted April 14, 2019 Yes, sending back to Mint tomorrow for an exchange. Tks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BipolarBaby Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Just Bob said: I think you are missing the point. It does not matter if you said that it was damaged. If it is indeed a scratch, it happened after the strike, and is not considered an error, but is considered damage. Whether it was scratched one millisecond or one hundred years after it was struck, it was still after the strike, and thus is not considered an error. No one is trying to give you a hard time or pass judgement, we just don't always make ourselves clear. bob must have a gorilla ding dong. Edited April 14, 2019 by BipolarBaby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_dac Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 15 hours ago, BipolarBaby said: bob must have a gorilla ding dong. Certainly more patience.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kratzer Posted April 15, 2019 Author Share Posted April 15, 2019 10 minutes ago, Matt_dac said: Certainly more patience.... It's a beginners thread, if you can't be patient and you shouldn't be on it. Alex in PA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_dac Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 50 minutes ago, Mark Kratzer said: It's a beginners thread, if you can't be patient and you shouldn't be on it. You’ve made quite an impression as a brand new member. If you can’t develop some online etiquette maybe you should not be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kratzer Posted April 15, 2019 Author Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Matt_dac said: You’ve made quite an impression as a brand new member. If you can’t develop some online etiquette maybe you should not be here. it's apparent to me that just like watch snobs coin snobs also exist on these boards. Who hang out on beginners threads and make fun of people asking beginners questions. Then when I stand up for myself you say that my etiquette is lacking. Why don't you ask about the people's etiquette who greet a new member in a beginner with smart remarks. No one asked for your opinion so move on. Do me a favor Mr. Perfect and put me on ignore. Edited April 15, 2019 by Mark Kratzer Some harrassmant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
