Best Dates for Proof Morgans

[LINCOLNMAN]

I plan to buy a proof Morgan after the 1st for my type set. I recall reading that some date ranges were better than others, in terms of quality and contrast. Any recommendations? I will examine candidates in hand, but it would help to narrow the field. Many thanks. 

[Conder101]

Personally I prefer the earlier years for better contrast.  Many of the later proofs, especially after 1900, have little contrast almost like a brilliant proof, and a dead gray look to them.

[MarkFeld]

Don't decide ahead of time what dates to consider or pursue - that will reduce your options, unnecessarily. Let the coins come to you and see what you like.

[numisport]

If your money tree is in bloom don't be afraid to spend premium money certainly on heavily contrasted proofs; you will be happier down the road.

[messydesk]

Go for the date that looks like the one you have in mind when you see it.  With a few exceptions, they're priced like type coins.  The later years tend not to have as much contrast as the others, but look at all of them you can to find the one you want.

[BillJones]

23 hours ago, Conder101 said:

Personally I prefer the earlier years for better contrast.  Many of the later proofs, especially after 1900, have little contrast almost like a brilliant proof, and a dead gray look to them.

I think that this is accurate. I have never seen a 1903 Proof Morgan Dollar that I liked. They all seem to have a uniform shiney surface that I find unattractive. Still you should be open to any date that fits in your budget and looks nice to you. Here is the piece that is in my type set. It is an NGC PR-64, and it was not called "Cameo" for reasons I do not understhand.

 

[david3142]

Check out the Legend Regency sale, Lot 314. I am not an expert in Proofs but I have been collecting business strike Morgans for 15 years and I looked at the coin in hand. I have no idea why it doesn’t grade higher (or why it didn’t CAC) so this might be an opportunity  

[MarkFeld]

1 hour ago, david3142 said:

Check out the Legend Regency sale, Lot 314. I am not an expert in Proofs but I have been collecting business strike Morgans for 15 years and I looked at the coin in hand. I have no idea why it doesn’t grade higher (or why it didn’t CAC) so this might be an opportunity  

Grading coins in-hand can be difficult. Grading business strike coins based on images, can be extremely difficult. Grading proof coins based on images, is essentially pointless. Far more times than not, the grade of a proof coin is based largely upon the extent and degree of hairlines. And the hairlines aren't usually fully apparent in images.

[numisport]

1 hour ago, MarkFeld said:

Grading coins in-hand can be difficult. Grading business strike coins based on images, can be extremely difficult. Grading proof coins based on images, is essentially pointless. Far more times than not, the grade of a proof coin is based largely upon the extent and degree of hairlines. And the hairlines aren't usually fully apparent in images.

This is so true especially in modern proofs of '36-'42. Even more so on later modern proofs. Many 1936 proofs are hairlined reflecting low grades assigned. Most proof coins shipped in cellophane envelopes will have hairlines sometimes even in the fields. Some high grade proof Morgans are hairline free but not the prettiest coins as Coin Explorer will reveal. I don't own proof Morgans but dealers I have talked to say most have hairlines to some degree.

[LINCOLNMAN]

Thank you all for your input. This will be a fun search -  a dream coin for me when I was a kid.

6 hours ago, BillJones said:

Here is the piece that is in my type set. It is an NGC PR-64, and it was not called "Cameo" for reasons I do not understhand.

 

 Beautiful example. I think 64's generally represent excellent value if they have strong eye appeal, are gem to my eye.  I'll look for a cameo that didn't quite make the cut in the eyes of the TPG. 

6 hours ago, david3142 said:

Check out the Legend Regency sale, Lot 314. I am not an expert in Proofs but I have been collecting business strike Morgans for 15 years and I looked at the coin in hand. I have no idea why it doesn’t grade higher (or why it didn’t CAC) so this might be an opportunity  

Thanks David, a great coin as is #315, but I'm holding off until after the 1st, 

[e1cnr]

I would focus more on the price range I was going to spend, and then buy the best example I could get find - maybe going to a large show like FUN.

[RWB]

Mid-1890s are usually of superior quality - at least when original.

[Pwrnapper]

While many 90's and up proofs can be uninspiring there are many out there that are exceptionally beautiful. Here are a few examples of what I've picked up that I think match that description. Have to look in the right places like Legend and a few other places that carry such beauties.

[LINCOLNMAN]

10 hours ago, Pwrnapper said:

While many 90's and up proofs can be uninspiring there are many out there that are exceptionally beautiful. Here are a few examples of what I've picked up that I think match that description. Have to look in the right places like Legend and a few other places that carry such beauties.

Wow. 

[numisport]

12 hours ago, Pwrnapper said:

While many 90's and up proofs can be uninspiring there are many out there that are exceptionally beautiful. Here are a few examples of what I've picked up that I think match that description. Have to look in the right places like Legend and a few other places that carry such beauties.

 

These are incredibly beautiful coins but I'm sure you are aware that if you choose Legend and a few others to deal with you limit the field of available coins greatly if not by half because you only see PCGS coins. Ms Sperber states that NGC coins are not marketable and they are known for crossing and even downgrading coins to fit PCGS holders as a ploy to make you think PCGS standards are higher.

[LINCOLNMAN]

5 hours ago, numisport said:

These are incredibly beautiful coins but I'm sure you are aware that if you choose Legend and a few others to deal with you limit the field of available coins greatly if not by half because you only see PCGS coins. Ms Sperber states that NGC coins are not marketable and they are known for crossing and even downgrading coins to fit PCGS holders as a ploy to make you think PCGS standards are higher.

Well aware, thanks numis. I do my best to buy the coin. 

[BillJones]

On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 12:36 PM, numisport said:

This is so true especially in modern proofs of '36-'42. Even more so on later modern proofs. Many 1936 proofs are hairlined reflecting low grades assigned. Most proof coins shipped in cellophane envelopes will have hairlines sometimes even in the fields. Some high grade proof Morgans are hairline free but not the prettiest coins as Coin Explorer will reveal. I don't own proof Morgans but dealers I have talked to say most have hairlines to some degree.

Recently I found this statement to be true as I began to assemble a 1936 Proof set. I have learned to use photos quite well when it comes to inspecting business strike coins in auctions from the circulated grades to the low Mint State levels. When comes to Proof coins, however, you really have to see the coin in person before you can begin to place a value on it.

[numisport]

1 hour ago, BillJones said:

On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 12:36 PM, numisport said:

This is so true especially in modern proofs of '36-'42. Even more so on later modern proofs. Many 1936 proofs are hairlined reflecting low grades assigned. Most proof coins shipped in cellophane envelopes will have hairlines sometimes even in the fields. Some high grade proof Morgans are hairline free but not the prettiest coins as Coin Explorer will reveal. I don't own proof Morgans but dealers I have talked to say most have hairlines to some degree.

Recently I found this statement to be true as I began to assemble a 1936 Proof set. I have learned to use photos quite well when it comes to inspecting business strike coins in auctions from the circulated grades to the low Mint State levels. When comes to Proof coins, however, you really have to see the coin in person before you can begin to place a value on it.

Couple good books on early modern proofs are available and talk about how 1936 coins were shipped and should look now. It would be interesting to know how many proof Morgans were shipped if any and how they were delivered to customers at Philadelphia mint. Any good reading available on early proof delivery ? Then one would have to consider how collectors handled them over the years in order to get an idea what your proof Morgan purchase should look like. Looks like I might need 5 to 10k to get my proof Morgan type.

[BillJones]

20 hours ago, numisport said:

Couple good books on early modern proofs are available and talk about how 1936 coins were shipped and should look now. It would be interesting to know how many proof Morgans were shipped if any and how they were delivered to customers at Philadelphia mint. Any good reading available on early proof delivery ? Then one would have to consider how collectors handled them over the years in order to get an idea what your proof Morgan purchase should look like. Looks like I might need 5 to 10k to get my proof Morgan type.

 

20 hours ago, numisport said:

Couple good books on early modern proofs are available and talk about how 1936 coins were shipped and should look now. It would be interesting to know how many proof Morgans were shipped if any and how they were delivered to customers at Philadelphia mint. Any good reading available on early proof delivery ? Then one would have to consider how collectors handled them over the years in order to get an idea what your proof Morgan purchase should look like. Looks like I might need 5 to 10k to get my proof Morgan type.

The 1936 and later Proof coins were delivered in cellophane sleeves wrapped in tissue paper. It the coins were left in those devices for a long time, they developed a haze. Many of them were. The haze can be dipped off successfully if done properly, but in today's market, with the huge emphasis on original surfaces, a fair number of collectors are rejecting or avoiding dipped coins. The trick is to find these silver Proof coins with a little haze, which is not that easy to spot in photos. If there is too much haze, the coins are dull and lifeless. 

There is anecdotal evidence that the Proof coins that were bought directly at the mint were only wrapped in tissue paper without the cellophane.

The Morgan Dollars came wrapped in tissue paper. If they were stored in that for a long period, they developed blue toning, which can be very attractive IF it has not gone too far. Sometimes heavy tarnish, which turns black in its final stages, can kill the Proof coin mirrors. Such coins are undesirable in my opinion, but that has not stopped the third party graders from placing very high grades on some of them.

[RWB]

RE: " It would be interesting to know how many proof Morgans were shipped if any and how they were delivered to customers at Philadelphia mint. Any good reading available on early proof delivery ?"

There is a Philadelphia Mint document covering proofs from 1893-1897 and certain deliveries can be inferred to be by mail and others in person. All the coins were packed the same way - in tissue paper - just like medals. (From 1936-1942 all were delivered in cellophane envelopes.) Coin dealers in Philadelphia and vicinity picked up multiple sets and pieces at the Mint; out of town orders were mailed. I doubt there was any difference in quality since the pieces were struck in batches.