How overgraded?

[Danye West]

http://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/387327/1961-Franklin-Half-Dollar-NGC-Proof-69-UC

 

[MarkFeld]

It's usually folly to try to grade Proof coins from images.

[Danye West]

My issue is the scratches on the cheek and bell.

The milk spots and flecks could be the photos.

[Curry]

The scratches on the cheek were the first things i seen

[MarkFeld]

My issue is the scratches on the cheek and bell.

The milk spots and flecks could be the photos.

 

Maybe you're not seeing (man-made) scratches. Perhaps it's die polish and/or mint made flaws, instead.

 

In the future, if you're looking for unbiased feedback - and I don't know whether you are - you might want to phrase your question without the "overgraded" slant to it.

[physics-fan3.14]

My issue is the scratches on the cheek and bell.

The milk spots and flecks could be the photos.

 

I don't see any milk spots? Where are you seeing them?

 

The "flecks" you see are not marks - they are a product of how the metal flows across the die.

 

As Mark mentioned, it is folly to try to grade proofs from images. However, what I see in those pictures is an unquestionably high grade, very strongly cameo'd piece. Is it 68? Is it 69? Not a single soul alive can tell that from an image.

 

Either way, it is a beautiful coin.

[Walkerfan]

The only thing that I don't like is that mark in the right facing field at 3:00.

 

Other than that it appears to be a really nice coin.

 

Of course, it would have to be viewed with a halogen to be absolutely sure.

[MarkFeld]

The only thing that I don't like is that mark in the right facing field at 3:00.

 

Other than that it appears to be a really nice coin.

 

Of course, it would have to be viewed with a halogen to be absolutely sure.

 

That doesn't look like a mark to me.

[BillJones]

The cloudy spots are a turn-off for me on a high grade, Ultra Cameo Proof. For that reason I would not want it. I was torn between PR-66 DCam and PR-67 DCam. In the end I voted PR-66 because of the "I don't want it" factor. If someone called it a PR-67 I would not complain although at that level, I would expect the defacts not to be very obvious.

[KMAG100]

I don't think you can accurately grade a proof coin from a picture. You have to have that coin in hand under a light. I think a picture can give an idea of what the coin may have a shot for with respect to grade.

 

The picture would indicate a 68, and if the cloudiness is on the coin and not the holder than possibly 67. But as presented not sure how someone could say with absolute sureness the coin is not 69. I give NGC graders a little more credit than to second guess them on a picture. May be wrong

[coinman1794]

As others have already said; it is not easy to grade Proofs from photographs, and the imperfections seen are mint-made flaws that do not count against the grade.

[numisport]

This coin could be 69 but should not bring real 69 money which ma be 10k for monster coin. Master die rework for 1960 meant more obverse detail and more matched 2 sided cameos. Still a condition rarity with contrast that heavy.

[Lucky One]

It's usually folly to try to grade Proof coins from images.

I agree Mark- there is no way to know what I'm seeing so I wouldn't even try on this one until I had it in hand...

[Lucky One]

This coin could be 69 but should not bring real 69 money which ma be 10k for monster coin. Master die rework for 1960 meant more obverse detail and more matched 2 sided cameos. Still a condition rarity with contrast that heavy.

 

and from long experience, that is the reason the coin sold so high, not necessarily the opinion on the holder. Truly scarce condition rarities are rising in value because there are so many new speculators and investers competing with collectors these days and with the internet and TPGs making it so easy, it doesn't surprise me. What most of the speculators and investors don't understand though is that in a crash, collectors put their hobby on a back burner and buy sparingly, and most certainly won't pay the high prices they did in the bull run so if they are forced to sell, their more common modern condition rarities won't bring but a fraction of bull market prices based on my experience. And I lived through and survived the 1989-1990 crash that sent many of the more common issues to a tenth of their original value. (slabbed Morgan dollars in MS65 come to mind)

[numisport]

This one instance where 4th party verification could be valuable. Nobody in their right mind would buy a highest grade coin like this with cloudiness and milk spot in obverse field. I owned a more appealing coin of this date in Pf 67 Ultra Cameo that I paid 700.00 for in 2008. I've also seen same problems in PCGS holders. I think it is time for grading companies to start buying this stuff back before somebody (like this poor soul) gets hurt again. Yes of course this white stuff is on the coin. If it was a bad holder it would be noted wouldn't it ?