new pcgs board policy

[chrisfuccione]

link

[chrisfuccione]

I have a feeling that my post on this across the street will be deleted so I cut an pasted it over here. CHRIS

 

 

 

 

chrisfuccione

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Posts: 520

Joined: May 2001

 

Thursday March 13, 2003 3:21 PM

 

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David it good to hear from you. I haven't had a chance to post over here for a while because there are

so many other sites and so much time that I spend on the internet. On of the reason I stopped posting over

here was because I got tired of the flame wars that were going on for a while. I have a consern about this

new policy. It seems that it looks like censorship, There are many time that we (your customers) have had

complaints and question on this company that I felt that have not been answered. Such as the Death coin

mess and the whole mess with QDB. Are we now going to be afraid to ask things like this. Or question about

apparent conflict of intrests between PCGS and other CU owned companys. Because of this new rule the line

of communication has been blocked even further. CHRIS

[nwcs]

To be completely honest, I think it's a non event.

[Architecht]

Interesting. It's also interesting to me that people over there have the impression that we censor things over here. Odd.

 

Perhaps I should open the penalty box to general view for a day. It contains basically every post I've ever pulled. Perhaps that would enlighten people about exactly what gets pulled. My sense is that there are those who think that we pull substantive issues that are just critical of the "Wrong Things". And that's not even remotely true.

 

We pull offensive material. And while the coin guys over there may think that they know what "offensive material" is, and that it's ok... my only comment would be... they've never met the comic guys. (laughing)

 

Arch

[SarasotaFrank]

I think the public announcement of the existence of such a policy is a black eye for the company in question.

 

Bad idea.

[TonerGuy]

Personally, I think PCGS is starting to feel the heat of the competition as well as their own internal problems.

 

From my experience, when a company starts clamping down, either on their employees, customers, vendors, or Board members, it's never a good sign.

 

There's things going on that unless you are an insider, you'll never know about.

 

I think we've seen a glimpse into that with the departure of Montgomery as well as Bowers and others at the top of PCGS, along with the shake up in management.

 

I'm not saying the end of PCGS/CU is in sight, but when you circle the wagons, something's defintely wrong -- IMHO.

 

Michael

[Architecht]

Actually, I don't know if it would be appropriate to open the penalty box to everyone, as many perhaps wouldn't be interested. But I'll do this.

 

NOW FOR A LIMITED TIME (laugh) anyone who wants access to the box can PM me and I'll let you poke around for a day or two.

 

(scratching head) How odd that they think we censor in some way that has anything to do wtih legitimate discussion of anything related to collecting. What do you guys think? Are we "censoring"? Have we done something to create that impression?

 

Arch

[BankNote1]

I don't know what the reason is, but people seem to be nicer over here! I think Ole Homerun maybe making a problem worse instead of fixing it, on the PCGS boards.

[jeh46544]

NOW FOR A LIMITED TIME (laugh) anyone who wants access to the box can PM me and I'll let you poke around for a day or two.

 

Are you serious? I want to see! PM sent!

[keithdagen]

Arch,

 

I saw one post across the street where two posters mentioned having a post censored in the past when another board member thought an Ask NGC question was being ignored. That's the only time I remember hearing any criticism over here about censorship without one of George Carlin's Seven Words being a focal point.

[jtryka]

Mr Hall: "There are a few...just a few...board members that just seem to be here to bag on everything and everybody. Their complaints and criticisms are usually mean-spirited and seldom constructive. And their comments often range from simply incorrect to pure BS. These members waste your time and ours....Effective immediately, the PCGS message boards will be for the sole purpose of members meeting, exchanging ideas and information, and learning from each other. The message boards will censor any mean-spirited, one-sided criticism of PCGS and we will boot members that consistently bag on PCGS."

 

Translation: How could any post critcizing us possibly have any basis in reality? There is obviously no truth to any of these posts and it's merely a bunch of mean spirited people trying to stir up trouble. So effective immediately, rather than addressing the truth, or these questions we will just delete them and put our heads back in the sand. Thanks for the suggestion WallStreetMan!

 

Man, it seems like they have really juiced up the Kool-aid over there since I left! I read through that thread, and chills went up my spine, it was like watching films of the Nurenburg rallies before Hitler annexed Poland! I must say, that since I haven't posted over there, or really read much over there since I left last year, I am not sure how bad it's gotten, but to halt any criticism of your company seems aggressive at best, and will raise significant suspicion and doubts about your integrity and credibility at worst. It's a sad day for PCGS, but I guess if they have enough collectors brainwashed, they'll do all right. This "slab bias" that seems to affect that side of the street more than this side truly befuddles me. To me it's always about the coin. NGC, PCGS, ANACS, ICG, whoever, if there's a pretty coin inside, I want it. These wack-job kool-aid addicts that say, "I only buy XYZ slabs" are not true coin collectors, they are slab collectors. That's fine for them, but why bother us on the COIN forums?

 

Sorry for the rant, hope I don't get sensored.

 

By the way, someone over on that thread mentioned NGC posting a self-serving letter over on their site. What's the story with that?

 

 

 

[keithdagen]

By the way, someone over on that thread mentioned NGC posting a self-serving letter over on their site. What's the story with that?

 

EVP posted Mr. Salzburg's response to Greg over on the PCGS Coin Forum. Some people took offense at that.

[Architecht]

Wow. That's an interesting thread too. And it's not true. We have never pulled a post remote like the one this guy mentions: "NGC deletes any kind of posts that put them in a bad light. They did it to me last year, on my first post there, when I described my experience with an 1882-CC Morgan that they graded as 65, when in fact it was a 64. Doesn't sound like their censorship policy has changed much."

 

Never happened. I do recall way early in the board life a hiccup in the database that wiped out a series of EVERYONE'S posts. Not just some specific post but a handful that had gone up that got corrupted. As I recall, the issue was that some posts that were the starts of thread got scrambled, and this buried all of the replies to them as unreachable. It's the only thing I can think of that explain this person's experience.

 

An alternative might be that he clicked the post button with "preview" checked, previewed it and THOUGHT it was posted. Perhaps he then quit without hitting "continue" to actually post it. Hrm.

 

Arch

[Architecht]

This is also interesting:

 

"I asked a question on NGCs moderated forum. They did answer it, but left out important parts of what I had written that changed the context of the question quite a bit. I left their forum shortly after that and rarely visit anymore."

 

I can only find one question by this guy. It's here.

 

If anyone had edited his post, it would be marked as edited. There is no way through the board software for someone who is NOT the owner of a post (even an admin) to edit a post without it getting flagged that way. Here's what it looks like when that is done.

 

For instance, I did it to the above post because I felt the title of the post didn't clearly represent the contents of the question inside. So I edited the title to add clarity. I did that to a few of the early questions.

 

The only way you can edit a post without having it marked as edited is:

 

1) If you're the owner of the post in question - so you are the actual account who posted it, you can edit it and click the button to not show your edit.

 

2) If you're me, you can go through all of the hassle of diving directly into the database structure and editing the contents of a field directly. Nobody else has the access to do this.

 

And I can tell you, I didn't edit it.

 

Arch

[jtryka]

Arch,

 

Your links are bad, all that comes up is http:/// It was probably a bad idea for EVP to reprint the letter on their site. He should have just put in a link to the thread on this site.

[Architecht]

Oops. Fixed.

 

(mumbles something about mixing UBBCode and HTML syntax)

 

 

[IrishMike]

Arch there is a misconception by some members across the street that posts get censored because they don't see the same type of posts over here and they assume you guys are censoring them. They have failed to realize that attitudes beget attitudes. As long as the employess of CS run a professional company and make themselves available to their customers you won't see the whining here that you see there.

 

They just don't get it.

[gmarguli]

Rather than address the root of the complaints, they have decided to silence the complainers. What a wonderfully run company.

 

Are there are doubts as to why they are #2 in practically everything?

 

A smart businessman would try to resolve the issues behind the complaints. A clueless businessman would institute a new policy silencing the people having the problems.

 

Keep digging your grave David, keep digging...

[cladking]

There has been some excessive bashing of CU and PCGS over there. There has also long been bashing of the dealers and some of the coins. When David Hall started trying to address some of the more constructive criticism some of the schriller complainers just ratcheted up a little. They've shown tremendous restraint in the past and it seems unlikely they'll suddenly show little toleration. To keep it in perspective, there is no evidence yet that anything has been deleted, and there are certainly several candidates.

 

Both sides of the street are to be commended for their generousity in providing the sites and allowing the virtually unfettered interchange of ideas.

 

 

[coinman1794]

You're right Greg. I think they are loosing touch with reality. When there are problems with your company, you address those problems directly, rather than cover them up. This is especially important when those problems deal with customer service and product quality, which, I might add, is seriously overrated at the present.

 

"It has gotten so bad that numerous PCGS dealers have asked us why we allow message board posts that unfairly critisize the product they sell and support. And numerous collectors have asked us why we allow message board posts to unfairly critisize the coins they love and the grading service they support."

 

When someone on the NGC boards does post a complaint, it is addressed and often times, it is quickly solved, and the company becomes even better. PCGS seems to be ignoring problems (problems that I can tell you first hand do exist!) and covering things up by selectively censoring the complaints.

 

 

[nwcs]

One thing I do want to add is that I hope the trolls from the other board don't decide to play in this neighborhood. I like the atmosphere over here.

[Weidel Legacy Collection]

I've been out of town on business and missed the letter that was posted resulting in HRH redefining what free speech is on the PCGS board.

 

Can someone post a link to it?

[jtryka]

RWW, I don't have a link, but its the post on this board by MSalzberg.

[K6AZ]

Arch, that was me who posted about my first post here disappearing last year. And I did post it, it was viewable after I posted it, and the next day it was gone. I am still sore over that coin, it was graded when the grading at NGC was fairly loose. I took a substantual loss on that coin.

 

Enough of that, it is past, What has happened now is PCGS has really tightened up their grading to the point of being ridiculous. Nothing is crossing. Their turnaround time for economy is now over two months, and I am not so sure that isn't the reason they have instituted the new board policy. I have stated over there many times that I have switched my submissions to NGC because of it. I truly believe they have done this to silence the criticism of their horrible customer service. And that is my opinion.

[MastaHanky]

Hey ladies!

 

Looks like I'll be over here more often. Although I wasn't banned across the street, I find their move childish. I don't think I'll go back.

[LucyBop]

Hey ladies!

 

You called?

[DonHeath]

Well,

 

Hope there is room at the inn. That said, I'm looking forward to meeting some of the NGC staff at the upcoming grading seminar in Charlotte. On to positive things.

[chrisfuccione]

Arch There has been one time that I can remember that you censored and deleted a thread that did not involve swear words.

 

A few months ago You put Meth in the pentaly box and deleted a tread of his because he told people how to open and reclose comic slabs. I still say that you were wrong for doing that because he was providing a valuable service to your company by showing a major fault with your comic slabs. He should of been thanked and not treated the way he was.

 

Other than that I think you are doing a great job on the boards. I know that we can be wild at times and at times you have to be a babysitter to us. So overall keep it up. CHRIS

[jom]

I've heard several members got banned. That is a load of garbage, IMO.

 

I guess PCGS can't take the heat...boo hoo.

 

jom

[gmarguli]

Yep. There are two confirmed bans (me & Darka). Still no word on EVP. There could also be others that haven't figured it out yet.

 

Too bad for PCGS. I answered 100X the number of questions that David Hall ever answered and my answers were 100% truthful. Wonder if he can put down his fiddle long enough to answer the burning questions?

 

I guess it doesn't matter if you've spent over $100,000 in submissions with them - like I have. You can't complain over there because they do no wrong.