"Just Having Fun" MS68 PCGS Slab! 0

[Afterword]

Looks like the dust is starting to settle.

[bochiman]

Then again, I think many would take Wondercoin and his "limited posting", but obvious knowledge, over many here that have voluminous posting and obvious negativity and not as much knowledge as Wondercoin....

 

 

Just my worth

 

Says the guy who has contributed probably 800 of his 833 posts by coming to this side of the street to defend the posters ATS.

 

Says the one who said they have my posts "ignored" and yet comes out to troll whenever I post.....

 

I would rather be known as "defending" something than just being negative, trolling, and attacking others.

Bravo for you for doing just the opposite and thinking that it is classy to do

[coinman_23885]

Can't we all just get along...

 

 

[Wondercoin]

"Time for a nice long break."

 

AHFreak: From a guy who has posted less than 50 posts in 14 years here (and less than 25 as of last week):

 

Would you mind stopping by this thread from time to time though. I have really enjoyed your comments.

 

Thank you.

 

Wondercoin

[Wondercoin]

Bochiman ... Now, don't you go anywhere my friend!

 

Wondercoin

[coinman_23885]

"Time for a nice long break."

 

AHFreak: From a guy who has posted less than 50 posts in 14 years here (and less than 25 as of last week):

 

Would you mind stopping by this thread from time to time though. I have really enjoyed your comments.

 

Thank you.

 

Wondercoin

 

Bochiman ... Now, don't you go anywhere my friend!

 

Wondercoin

 

I feel so left out...

[jom]

Can't we all just get along...

 

You need to read the forum rules. It is STRICTLY against forum rules to "get along" in a thread that is the subject of either:

 

1) Grading

2) AT vs NT

3) CAC

4) Daniel Carr

 

You've been warned!

 

jom

[Wondercoin]

Coinman ... You did not suggest you were leaving

 

Wondercoin

[braddick]

There are many exciting times ahead for all of us within this terrific hobby! I look forward to just about all of it.

 

I enjoy the mix of personalities and thoughts brought up within this thread. I'll tell you what, agree or not- like it or not- there are no dummies contributing.

 

Differences of opinion, even ultra strong ones demonstrated right here doesn't equate to anything less than some of the greatest minds within this field.

[lehigh96]

 

I still only want to know why the listing description of the coin includes "the "bands" are fine".

 

The coin is labeled FB. Is this not enough for the Registry?

 

Mr. Wondercoin is consistent in avoiding a simple explanation for what "the "bands" are fine" means. It is not a slip of using a different word. The listing has "bands" in quotation marks.

 

I am sure he has reasons. It is not about the grade to me. I don't care. It is the marks. I also don't care what caused the marks. I just want to know what the interpretation of "the "bands" are fine means.

 

 

In my first post, I asked you if you have any experience with registry quality coins, but you did not answer me. The reason I asked is related to the answer to your question about what "bands are fine" means.

 

Coins with strike designations will often drive significant premiums over those without strike designations. This is true for SLQs, Franklin Halves, Jefferson Nickels, Mercury Dimes, and Roosevelt Dimes. At the registry quality grades, this price premium usually reaches its highest level and presents the greatest amount of risk for the collector.

 

You correctly point out that a coin with FB/FT designation will qualify for registry points and ranking but it ignores the other aspect which is price. Collectors are very hesitant about plunking down $10K on what is otherwise a very cheap coin unless they can be assured that the assigned grade, including the strike designation are warranted. Furthermore, any experienced collector of series with strike designations knows how often coins obtain these strike designations but do not warrant the designation in the eyes of most of the collecting community, especially by PCGS. Since the strike designation makes up so much of the price of the coin, the validity of designation becomes paramount at resale. As an example, look at this 1948 Jefferson Nickel NGC MS66 5FS with an current population of 25/1.

 

 

Directly under the 1st pillar there is a mark that traverses all of the steps and should preclude the FS designation, but NGC missed it. Without Full Steps, this is a $100 coin, with Full Steps Numismedia Wholesale is listed at $1,325. If I were to offer this coin for sale, I could not in good conscience make the claim in the description that the "steps are fine."

 

Any astute collector will certainly inquire about the dealer's opinion of the strike designation before spending $10K on a coin that without the strike designation would be worth a fraction of that price. So when Wondercoin says the "bands are fine," he is offering his opinion of the validity of strike designation, in much the same way that he comments about his opinion of the numerical grade earlier in his description.

 

As a buyer/seller of registry quality Jefferson Nickels, I can tell you that this practice is extremely common and I comment about the strike designation almost always when selling high grade full step Jefferson Nickels. Of course, I can't state for a fact that this was Wondercoin's intention or meaning, but as a player in the registry coin market, that was my assumption.

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by Lehigh96

[lehigh96]

Thank you Coinman!

 

If you thought the story about Roosies was interesting ... you should only learn the story behind Jefferson Nickel registry set collecting

 

Wondercoin

 

As the owner of the 5th ranked Jefferson Nickel set in the NGC Registry, I would very much like to hear that story, but perhaps if you are willing, you could create a new thread to tell the story so that it does not get lost in the Purgatory that is this thread.

[Wondercoin]

Lehigh96... Once again, another thoughtful and interesting post.

 

Yes, I also thought that the plain English of "Bands are fine" meant exactly what it said as well.

 

But, to further amplify (for anyone who cares)...

 

You can have coins where you believe the bands are not "fine" and the FB designation has been awarded without justification (or, alternatively, not awarded but you believe they should have been because the bands are fine).

 

A significant number of Mint State Roosies are not "full band" coins (a designation by the way that myself and OnlyRoosies, if memory serves me right, pressed PCGS to adopt for a number of years until they finally did). Be careful what you wish for.

 

If one believes the grading service awarded "Full Bands" to a dime unjustifiably, then a simple statement that the bands are "not all there" is probably a simple comment to the point.

 

If it is an important date coin that rarely comes with FB, perhaps one might even assign a percentage of bands present, such as "90% Full Bands".

 

If a coin is "Full Band" it can be a "Full Band" coin with weak bands all the way to strong bands (i.e. across the spectrum of strength). If one believes the bands are exceptionally strong, a comment such as "the bands are strong" or the "bands are very strong" would convey that. If one thought the bands just "squeaked into FB" then one might say that the "bands are weak" or the bands are "very weak". This conveys that you believe the coin is indeed full band, but perhaps just barely.

 

When one says the bands are "fine" that signifies that the bands are full, but they are neither exceptionally strong nor exceptionally weak. They are simply "fine". Not great, not horrible. Anywhere from slightly below average to slightly above average.

 

This is the plain English I have used with Roosie collectors and dealers in discussing the series and the coins for over three decades now. Obviously, anyone interested in searching for "deeper meanings" might ask what words such as "not all there", "fine", "weak", "very weak", "strong", "very strong" really mean. And, of course, I might think bands are "fine" while the next guy thinks they are "Weak" or "Strong". As Lehigh said, it is just an opinion and in this case my personal opinion of "fine" is backed up by a professional grading service.

 

Lehigh ... send me your phone number .... if I don't post the story here one day, at a minimum, I want to tell it to you personally on the phone. It really shows the heart and character behind some of the pioneers on the registry game.

 

As always, just my 2 cents.

 

Wondercoin

 

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by Wondercoin

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Finally. An answer. It would have been so easy to explain this many, many posts ago.

 

I realize the answer is built on the hypothetical what he means is theory of another, but you ran with it and completed construction of the story. You even worked in self praise for birthing the method of what the secret language of fine means and fb means and schooling the TPG.

 

A suggestion: next time, just state in the listing that the marks that can be seen are acceptable for the designation of fb, instead of misdirection. If nothing else, it would not have the appearance of a questionable sales tactic.

 

 

[Wondercoin]

Next time, I will say the bands are fine. Period end. That is what I will do next time as I have done for 30 years.

 

I will speak plain English as usual, and so far no one interested in a dime has been the least bit confused by it in close to 30 years. That isn't to say, the next guy won't say "I personally think the bands are weak". At which point, I won't demand that he define "weak" as I will understand what he is trying to say. My only follow up will be "I assume then you are not interested in the dime"? At which point, he might say, "Can I have $1,500 off because of the weak bands"? And so on and so forth ....

 

Now if he says the bands are "Red" not "Red Brown", I may stop and ask him what in the heck he is talking about.

 

Wondercoin

 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by Wondercoin

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Next time, I will say the bands are fine. Period end. That is what I will do next time as I have done for 30 years.

 

I will speak plain English as usual, and so far no one interested in a dime has been the least bit confused by it in close to 30 years. That isn't to say, the next guy won't say "I personally think the bands are weak". At which point, I won't demand that he define "weak" as I will understand what he is trying to say. My only follow up will be "I assume then you are not interested in the dime"? At which point, he might say, "Can I have $1,500 off because of the weak bands"? And so on and so forth ....

 

Now if he says the bands are "Red" not "Red Brown", I may stop and ask him what in the heck he is talking about.

 

Wondercoin

 

 

 

 

Thank you.Your wording suggests exasperation. I can understand.You are consistent in obfuscation. I can not find fault in that or you personally. I have no reason to. It is required in the profession you practice, I assume. The fact still remains, you avoided continuously answering any question at all about the meaning of your chosen definition language or explaining the meaning of your phrasing. You are a very intelligent person. You certainly knew the marks are there. Your method of description appears as misdirecting the viewer, by stating "the "bands" are fine". You opined on every other topic about the coin and your expertise, but deliberately avoided any questions concerning what "the "bands" are fine" means. I can understand that you would assume that your expertise described in the listing would set aside any questions about the marks, especially when you added the phrasing "the "bands" are fine". Yet you couldn't articulate what it supposedly means until now, and then only after a hypothetical by another was presented. Thirty years is not the issue. The issue is you could not articulate and explain a very simple question. Until an opportunity presented itself via the words of another. why would you assume that anybody interested would know what you mean? Yes you are the expert, but facts are facts there are marks on the coin. You can't possibly believe there would not be questions about why the bands are described as fine.

 

Even now, within the answer you present in this post, you can not resist obfuscating, by presenting another hypothetical sales question, which I note your answer would again be obfuscation by not replying to the direct question that is asked of you and simply state why the bands are not really weak in your opinion. Your own hypothetical answer would be that you assume the person is not interested.

 

I, too, have wondered since the beginning of the thread "what the heck is he talking about by stating "the "bands" are fine"? Why would he use that wording when the picture in his listing shows marks? There must be an explanation. I am going to ask."

 

I really don't know if your logic posit via the answer you have finally presented is logical. I will leave that to others to decide.

 

A passing thought: not every question you received is or was from a person that is not or was not interested in the coin. It is worth considering. Sometimes it is good to change little things in our 30 year old habits. Consider the persons that have been reading this thread that might be interested. It is sometimes not what you know, but how you present what you know. If you make a blooper, say so, chuckle and move on. We are all different. It is neither good or bad. It just is.

[Wondercoin]

Anyone who asks me a question politely, I go out of my way to answer. And, I often spend my evenings and weekends doing exactly that, quite often under 2:00 a.m. or 3:00 a.m.

 

You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

 

Wondercoin

 

 

[RWB]

Discussions/disagreements like this once were played out at Coin Club meetings or on the bourse floor (or hallway). Now they have become public matters of curiosity and appear in multiple search engine results.

 

Kind of disheartening that every insignificant disagreement or misunderstanding on line is now gossip fodder. It's little wonder that people seem more agitated and divided that a generation ago.

[bochiman]

Finally. An answer. It would have been so easy to explain this many, many posts ago.

 

As stated by a few, people that KNOW Roosevelts and what FB (or FT) means, KNEW what Wondercoin meant.

Those that just want to talk a lot, and try to badger beat someone, are the only ones harping on it.

If you know the series, you knew what was meant. If you are a busybody and don't have a care about this particular coin (other than some unexplainable need to find fault), then that is the only explanation for keeping on and on about it, and about Wondercoin.

 

 

A suggestion: next time, just state in the listing that the marks that can be seen are acceptable for the designation of fb, instead of misdirection. If nothing else, it would not have the appearance of a questionable sales tactic.

 

Wondercoin has MANY satisfied customers and IS SUCCESSFUL in his business. If he were practicing "questionable sales tactics" as you imply, it is very likely he would not have the people backing him up that he has.

He goes out of his way to provide information AND very clear/large pictures. It would be much easier to be "questionable" if he did not do that and just said "no picture, just buy the coin on my word".

 

You've added NOTHING to this thread. You complain about a coin you have no intention of purchasing and a seller that you seemingly have no firsthand knowledge of in dealing with.

You play word games with people and attempt to bully them to conform to the way YOU want them to conform. That is the way this country is currently going with things but not everyone appreciates that or wants to play that game.

 

Anyone that is willing to step up to purchase something at this level is going to do due diligence and your wording/wishes and desires mean nothing to them. They will be capable of forming an opinion of the words used and the pictures used, and the seller, all by themselves.

 

Suggest taking a step back and asking yourself what you are really trying to accomplish with your continued focus in your posts on this issue......are you a Don Quixote type? Do you have something against $10,000 coins that you obviously have no intention of purchasing? Do you have something against the seller? Do you have something against PCGS? Do you have something against registry class coins? Do you know anything about Roosevelt dime series/designations or really even care?

Do you just enjoy "showing off" seldom used vocabulary or browbeating and bullying people?

 

[coinman_23885]

Let's remember that the title literally has the words "just having fun" in the title; let's not spoil it. Let's remember that this is a hobby and not worth fighting over.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Anyone who asks me a question politely, I go out of my way to answer. And, I often spend my evenings and weekends doing exactly that, quite often under 2:00 a.m. or 3:00 a.m.

 

You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

 

Wondercoin

 

 

Pages 17-21.

 

I have made my views known. You supplied an answer, however delayed. The logic of the answer is for each person to decide.

 

Politeness and honey and vinegar was offered by 6 different persons. All came away empty handed looking for sweets that were expected in return. Politeness was not exhibited to those with questions. Evasiveness was. I am always curious about a non-answer answer to a question about such a coin being offered to the public. A direct answer to a question should always be offered by the seller or representative, without avoidance. It is honorable to do so, and assists in keeping the hobby alive and well. It is a $10,000.00 coin, in your opinion. I would think you would be ecstatic to describe the marks and the basis for the worthiness of the coin at the first opportunity a question was raised.

 

What you interpret as a lack of politeness, I interpret as courteous and direct insistence.

 

I wish you well.

 

XXX

OOO , solved for XO

[Afterword]

The dust is starting to settle, again.

 

There are a lot of replies for this kind of thread.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Afterword

[numisport]

A proof 68 Rosie should have full clean smoking hot torch and maybe deep mirror surfaces. So the discussion should involve clean surfaces and heavy cameo contrast to quality for real eye appeal right ? Why spend 10 k for a highly contested unc grade when '64 Proof 69 Ultra Cameo coins are available for a couple hundred bucks.

[coinman_23885]

A proof 68 Rosie should have full clean smoking hot torch and maybe deep mirror surfaces. So the discussion should involve clean surfaces and heavy cameo contrast to quality for real eye appeal right ? Why spend 10 k for a highly contested unc grade when '64 Proof 69 Ultra Cameo coins are available for a couple hundred bucks.

 

It isn't a proof coin.

[MarkFeld]

A proof 68 Rosie should have full clean smoking hot torch and maybe deep mirror surfaces. So the discussion should involve clean surfaces and heavy cameo contrast to quality for real eye appeal right ? Why spend 10 k for a highly contested unc grade when '64 Proof 69 Ultra Cameo coins are available for a couple hundred bucks.

 

Apples to oranges. And grades for proof coins - low value, as well as high value ones - can be just as easily and "highly contested".

[Afterword]

The dust has settled - but now it is mutating into a living dead thread! How do you kill a living dead thread that has no head?

[brg5658]

The dust has settled - but now it is mutating into a living dead thread! How do you kill a living dead thread that has no head?

 

What's the internet forum equivalent to a rocket launcher?

[Wondercoin]

Good chance this thread will be "alive and well" 90 days from now as I pulled the coin from the bank this afternoon and I am preparing to send it to Mark for inclusion in the Heritage Summer ANA (Anaheim) auction. The coin will have no reserve and will sell for whatever Roosie dime collectors determine it is worth.

 

But, tonight I enjoy what could be perhaps my final evening with the special dime as I might never see it again.

 

Wondercoin

[coinman_23885]

Is there any chance that Heritage will attend the summer Baltimore convention, and if so, will this coin be available for viewing?

[EleMint Man]

 

 

I'm very pleased and excited about all the comments on this informative and intense thread.

Special thanks to you Wondercoin! The wealth of detailed, eloquently written comments by

 

some of whom are at the top of this field is phenomenal! I'm humbled by this "Meeting of the Minds".

 

I look forward to seeing the auction results on Heritage of this illustrious coin!

 

 

 

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

A proof 68 Rosie should have full clean smoking hot torch and maybe deep mirror surfaces. So the discussion should involve clean surfaces and heavy cameo contrast to quality for real eye appeal right ? Why spend 10 k for a highly contested unc grade when '64 Proof 69 Ultra Cameo coins are available for a couple hundred bucks.

 

It isn't a proof coin.

 

I do not think he is stating the coin in question is a proof. He is simply presenting an "eye appeal" example for collectors, a sort of what you see is what you get. He is not trying to make a point of rarity or comparison of rarity between an unc. and proof, or a quantitative issue.