What to do with gold coin

[Lee in Phoenix]

Hi. I have a question. I should probably admit that I'm not a real coin collector. I've always been fascinated by gold coins since I first saw them as a child at the coin department in a big department store in downtown Chicago. So over the years I've bought a few gold coins by looking for the best looking coins at the lowest price. They have been coins with little or no collector value. Well, a while back I saw a roll of coins on ebay that was mostly pennies and had a 2 1/2 dollar gold coin on one end with the reverse side showing and an 1866 3 cent coin on the other. The seller stated that it was part of an estate and he had not opened the roll to check the dates. I have no idea why anyone would roll mixed coins in this manner, but I bought. Just recently I decided to look up the date on the gold coin and it is 1864 and is listed everywhere as being worth thousands of dollars. At this point I don't know whether I should try to find a reputable coin store in the northeast Phoenix or Scottsdale and have them send it in to be graded and put in a plastic holder or should I try to figure out how to send it in to NGC myself. If it is worth significantly more than the $370 I paid for the roll of coins, I will sell it and I imagine I will need to have it graded and sealed in one of those plastic holders in order to get a decent price. What should I do first? Thanks for your time.

 

If I knew how to post a picture I would do it but I can't seem to figure that out.

[RWB]

These things are usually frauds. Your comment "I have no idea why anyone would roll mixed coins in this manner...." sums the dilemma.

 

If you post the auction URL, someone here will probably take a closer look at the item and give you more information based on their experiences.

[CaptHenway]

Agreed, there is probably something fishy about it. Since you already have the roll in hand give us the link to the sale. If you can post pictures of the piece, front and back, that would be a big help.

[Lee in Phoenix]

I'd really like to post pictures, but don't know how. Are there instructions posted somewhere?

 

I can't post a link to the auction. I bought in a couple years ago and the auction has been deleted by ebay. The seller is still there and answered an ebay message I sent a few days ago. I figured it was like my other gold coins with a common date and no particular value and just decided to look it up one day recently when I was bored.

[RWB]

Sign on to a free image hosting service on line - many use PhotoBucket.

 

Upload your images (obverse and reverse).

 

One uploaded to your "Library" click on the image and then look to the lower right of the screen for the link for message boards. Copy this link.

 

Go to this site, open a reply to this message and copy the link into the message exactly as you would text.

 

Press Preview Reply to verify the image is visible, then press Submit if everything is OK.

 

[it's simpler than it sounds...]

[Lee in Phoenix]

Thanks for you help, it worked!

 

 

[CO Collector]

Unfortunately, maybe your gold coin is not genuine.

 

Lots of fake gold, like this: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1864-Liberty-Head-2-5-Gold-Dollars-FREE-SHIPPING/1736234923.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.1.ojpDEX&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_2,searchweb201602_5_505_506_503_504_10020_502_10014_10001_10002_10017_10010_10005_10006_10011_10003_10021_10004_10022_10009_10008_10018_10019,searchweb201603_1&btsid=df04b648-fceb-49c1-96cb-5cb6a5faf3e8

 

Point is, get it authenticated before you submit it for grading & slabbing. Maybe your local coin shop can help.

[CO Collector]

For comparison:

 

 

"The 1864 is among the rarest quarter eagles ever produced..."

http://raregoldcoins.com/civil-war-gold

[CaptHenway]

Don't think it is the Aliexpress counterfeit, but have serious doubts that it is genuine. Note the shape of the date and its position relative to the head above and the denticles below. Genuine business strikes always have the date low, as on the genuine pictures shown. Also, the ear is filled in, as can be seen on the genuine coin. I cannot see that on your coin.

 

Sorry.

[MarkFeld]

Thanks for you help, it worked!

 

 

 

Unfortunately, I believe that it's a counterfeit.

[Lee in Phoenix]

I'm not surprised to hear that it is likely counterfeit. I doubt that it is the one from China that is gold plated as this is a bit worn and I don't see any signs of the base metal showing thru where the plating is worn. Unfortunately I believe the only way I will know for sure and with enough certainty to complain to the guy who sold it on ebay will be to send it in to one of the grading places and have them send it back with something in writing saying it is counterfeit. I believe they refund part of their fee if that is the case. Too bad I didn't check into all this sooner. It's hard to complain about something 18 months after you bought it.

[mumu]

I'm not surprised to hear that it is likely counterfeit. I doubt that it is the one from China that is gold plated as this is a bit worn and I don't see any signs of the base metal showing thru where the plating is worn. Unfortunately I believe the only way I will know for sure and with enough certainty to complain to the guy who sold it on ebay will be to send it in to one of the grading places and have them send it back with something in writing saying it is counterfeit. I believe they refund part of their fee if that is the case. Too bad I didn't check into all this sooner. It's hard to complain about something 18 months after you bought it.

 

The chineses strike them with built-in wear to more easily sell the story.

[dcarr]

Definitely counterfeit, sorry.

[RWB]

NGC can examine and authenticate your coin. If it is not genuine - or maybe a Colorado Counterfeit - they can tell you.

[MarkFeld]

I'm not surprised to hear that it is likely counterfeit. I doubt that it is the one from China that is gold plated as this is a bit worn and I don't see any signs of the base metal showing thru where the plating is worn. Unfortunately I believe the only way I will know for sure and with enough certainty to complain to the guy who sold it on ebay will be to send it in to one of the grading places and have them send it back with something in writing saying it is counterfeit. I believe they refund part of their fee if that is the case. Too bad I didn't check into all this sooner. It's hard to complain about something 18 months after you bought it.

 

The major grading companies do not refund part of the fee when they determine that a coin is counterfeit.

 

You might want to contact the seller, let him know you've been told the coin is counterfeit and request a refund (which, legally, at least, you should be entitled to). It will be difficult, so long after the fact, however.

[thebeav]

Unfortunately Lee, that 1/4 eagle is not genuine.

I hope it doesn't sour you to the fun that can be had with numismatics !

 

Paul

[Lee in Phoenix]

NGC can examine and authenticate your coin. If it is not genuine - or maybe a Colorado Counterfeit - they can tell you.

 

I'll be sending it to them once I figure out exactly how to do that. Although I appreciate all the people here who took the time to look at the pictures and tell me it is counterfeit I don't feel that I can go back to the seller and say "I know the coin is counterfeit because the people in the forum told me so from pictures I posted." It will be worth the fee to have it in writing even if I just keep it.

 

Yes, I was mistaken in thinking they refund part of the fee if it is counterfeit. The refund is if they can't determine if the coin is authentic. In that case they refund most of the fee.

[bstrauss3]

I hate to burst your bubble even further, but if this was "a while back" like months, the scammer isn't going to give you your money back even if the Director of the Mint attested it was fake. He's either closed his eBay account and opened a new one or going to claim you substituted a fake for the beautiful genuine coin he sold you.

[orifdoc]

Don't bother submitting it. At this point, the loss has already been incurred. Wasting even more money on grading fees just puts you in a deeper hole. Nobody on the planet is going to sell a roll of cents with a genuine quarter eagle showing on one end. "Unsearched" rolls never are. "Estate Sales" aren't either.

 

Sorry. This sort of stuff drives those of us that love the hobby crazy. Untold thousands of people have been burned by unscrupulous individuals and have abandoned what could have been an enjoyable pursuit.

 

If you're not sure, just take it to some local dealers or to a coin show and ask a few people what they think. You can also weigh it. As-minted, a genuine coin will weigh 4.18 grams. With that much wear, it should come in around 3.9-4.0 grams. Anything less and it's probably plated lead, or some other base metal.

[Matt_dac]

There are many forms of this....such as listings for 'unsearched wheat pennies' showing a 1909 S on one end with the heading "VDB?".

 

Good luck with your collecting. The insurance of buying NGC or PCGS slabbed coins is very worthwhile.

[Lee in Phoenix]

I hate to burst your bubble even further, but if this was "a while back" like months, the scammer isn't going to give you your money back even if the Director of the Mint attested it was fake. He's either closed his eBay account and opened a new one or going to claim you substituted a fake for the beautiful genuine coin he sold you.

 

I hate to disappoint anyone, but the place I bought this from on ebay isn't a "scammer." He is still on ebay and had 99.8 positive feedback on a large volume of transactions. Maybe I'm just a sucker, but I sort of doubt that he knowingly stuck a counterfeit in there to rip someone off. I wouldn't think it would be worth the like bad feedback that would result.

[Lee in Phoenix]

You can also weigh it. As-minted, a genuine coin will weigh 4.18 grams. With that much wear, it should come in around 3.9-4.0 grams. Anything less and it's probably plated lead, or some other base metal.

 

Thanks for the tip about the weight. Just from curiosity I'll weigh it tonight.

[MarkFeld]

I hate to burst your bubble even further, but if this was "a while back" like months, the scammer isn't going to give you your money back even if the Director of the Mint attested it was fake. He's either closed his eBay account and opened a new one or going to claim you substituted a fake for the beautiful genuine coin he sold you.

 

I hate to disappoint anyone, but the place I bought this from on ebay isn't a "scammer." He is still on ebay and had 99.8 positive feedback on a large volume of transactions. Maybe I'm just a sucker, but I sort of doubt that he knowingly stuck a counterfeit in there to rip someone off. I wouldn't think it would be worth the like bad feedback that would result.

 

The fact that he is still on EBay and has that feedback score does not mean that he's not a scammer. I know of some sellers with higher feedback scores than that, who take advantage of unknowledgeable buyers. Sorry, but you sound naive.

[mumu]

I hate to burst your bubble even further, but if this was "a while back" like months, the scammer isn't going to give you your money back even if the Director of the Mint attested it was fake. He's either closed his eBay account and opened a new one or going to claim you substituted a fake for the beautiful genuine coin he sold you.

 

I hate to disappoint anyone, but the place I bought this from on ebay isn't a "scammer." He is still on ebay and had 99.8 positive feedback on a large volume of transactions. Maybe I'm just a sucker, but I sort of doubt that he knowingly stuck a counterfeit in there to rip someone off. I wouldn't think it would be worth the like bad feedback that would result.

 

If a gold coin sold on the end of a penny bank roll isn't a clear attempt to at least deceive, then I don't know what is.

[Lee in Phoenix]

Well, you folks were right about the counterfeit. I should have noticed the weight. It was obvious to me today when I picked up a $5 coin and then the fake $2.50 coin which should have weighed half as much. My scale is meant for weighing gunpowder so it weighs in grains. The fake coin only weighed 30.3 grains which comes out to 1.96 grams, less than half of what it should weigh. To check the accuracy of the scale and my conversion the $5 coin weighed 129.1 grains which converts to 8.3655 grams, very close to the 8.36 that it should be. I'm recovering from a broken leg and was standing on one leg so I probably didn't level the scale perfectly when I got it out today. At any rate, the fake coin is so light I'm surprised I didn't notice it just in handling it.

 

As for the intent of the seller on ebay and whether he knew or bought the roll that way as he claims, who knows? If anything, I'm the one to blame for not looking into any of this much, much sooner.

 

To everyone who took time to answer, thanks for your time! Overall it has been an interesting experience and as my wife said I probably got my $300 worth in interesting research since I started looking into this a few weeks ago.

 

 

[e1cnr]

I hate to disappoint anyone, but the place I bought this from on ebay isn't a "scammer." He is still on ebay and had 99.8 positive feedback on a large volume of transactions. Maybe I'm just a sucker, but I sort of doubt that he knowingly stuck a counterfeit in there to rip someone off. I wouldn't think it would be worth the like bad feedback that would result.

 

The only people that sell that kind of you bought are scammers, praying on the naïve. There seldom is a Santa Claus in coins.

[RWB]

Sounds like your wife is being very supportive. Suggest you find and extra $100 and take her out to a really nice restaurant as soon as your injury permits.

[orifdoc]

A handloader huh? That hobby can be even more fun than coins.

 

We've all paid "educational fees" in one way or another. In reality, this is pretty cheap compared to what some of us have been through.

 

Want to have some fun and put a happy ending on it? After you get done taking your wife to diner, go visit a local coin show, get to know a few of the dealers, and pick out a common-date quarter eagle in MS63 or so. It shouldn't cost you more than $450-500 and you'll have a nice piece of mint-state gold to show for it.

 

Be careful though. This hobby is addictive.

[GoldFinger1969]

To everyone who took time to answer, thanks for your time! Overall it has been an interesting experience and as my wife said I probably got my $300 worth in interesting research since I started looking into this a few weeks ago.

Don't let this experience turn you off either numismatic or bullion coin collecting, Lee.

 

Lots of ways to educate yourself on the Internet -- and this is a great place. Plenty of threads here -- some sticky and dated -- with great info.