Indian Head Cent Woodgrain collection

[jesbroken]

Hey all, been a while.

Here's the woodgrain IHC set I've been working on. A few will be updated

as they become available and I'll probably never replace the 1866 even though

it is heavily damaged, as it is a favorite and what got me interested in doing

this herculean task. Will add more as I make the virtual albums complete. Thanks for viewing.

Jim

 

 

 

[Walkerfan]

Nice set, Jim! The 1860 RD is sweet. Keep it up!!

[jesbroken]

Here are a few more pages. I have many that would fill the blanks, only not good enough grade. Should anyone have any woodgrain cents that fill those missing from the album(no uncirculated please), give me a pm.

Thanks,

Jim

 

 

 

 

 

[RWB]

What is it that some find attractive about the discoloration pattern? Not criticizing -- just wondering.

[BillJones]

I have understood that the wood grain results from an uneven mix of copper and tin. I have often seen this on 1909-S Indian cents. I don't care for the look, but everyone's taste is different.

[jesbroken]

It's a natural occurrence to the metal that I find very attractive. Far more so than the green/blue Morgan dollar that many pay thru the nose for.

Then that's only my opinion.

Jim

[RWB]

I really doubt the copper-tin explanation. There was never more than 2.5% tin and often much less in the bronze cent. The approximate melting points for copper, zinc and tin are, respectively, 1,085C, 419C and 232C. The mint had problems with excessive evaporation of zinc and tin, but only if they tried to hold the liquid alloy too long or when they tried to melt brass such as WW-II shell casings. (Alloy was added in liquid form to prevent dangerous explosions of solid metal.) Further a lot of the Indian cent planchets came from contractors such as Scoville. We know nothing about how they treated the planchets before delivery to the Philadelphia Mint.

[jesbroken]

RWB,

This would make an interesting article for one of your books. I would be interested in how it actually occurs. I have read that the wash used for the material led to this occurrence and that the metal composition caused this. I would have no idea as to how it occurs only that I find it attractive. Obviously, some do not. I have never heard by anyone that it is a storage of the copper causing the issue. I have as of yet not identified a single year date that this did not occur.

Thanks for your reply.

Jim

[Afterword]

What is it that some find attractive about the discoloration pattern? Not criticizing -- just wondering.

 

 

 

Perhaps, because it is a pattern and one that is recognizable, like the Morgan’s rainbow. They both are, of course, an illusion, but then people love a good illusion.

[coinman1794]

Woodgrain toning patterns occurs on many coin types, not just on coppers. I actually find them intriguing. Sometimes I do think it results from planchet impurities, but also from rinsing methods, and most often it's normal toning processes.

 

 

[bsshog40]

I think its a cool looking set! Nice Jim!

[jesbroken]

Thanks, Bobby and to all viewing and replying.

Jim

[dcarr]

I have understood that the wood grain results from an uneven mix of copper and tin. I have often seen this on 1909-S Indian cents. I don't care for the look, but everyone's taste is different.

 

I believe that is correct.

Technically, I think the lighter-color streaks are brass.

 

Some people like the wood-grain look on US Cents circa 1909 because it is an indicator of a genuine coin (counterfeits don't typically have that pattern).

 

[jesbroken]

Thank you Mr. Carr. The major reason I like the look, is simply that it is pleasant to look at and different from most other coins on a series that is already my favorite. I have a normal collection also, but this one just grabbed me. As you said, I have never yet seen a counterfeit with this appearance in any of the key coins. I have looked at many, many but so far have only been able to pick the lesser keys due to available funds.

Jim

[RWB]

jesbroken -

 

At present, I doubt there is enough solid information covering mint operations from the 1870s through 1960s to draw any conclusions about planchet whitening, etc. The half dollar is clearly superficial discoloration, and the cents are likely something similar.

 

As mentioned previously, the idea of poor tin distribution in the alloy is a non-starter. But -- maybe those who make counterfeit coins have some secret knowledge?

[jesbroken]

RWB,

It would be nice if we had a metallurgist among our forum members. Perhaps they could then explain or maybe discover exactly what causes this effect on copper coins.

Thanks

Jim

[Buffalo Head]

Very nice, Jim. I love the look of these!! (thumbs u

[RWB]

Jesbroken:

Yep. I've tried to drum up interest on getting independent testing of several coins where claims have been made about alloy, or mixing, etc. But no one has volunteered to do the work or fund the project. Dealers, it seems, would rather have something to build a sales story around without confronting the truth.

 

As a simple question: what was the alloy actually used by the U.S. Mint for cents? How much tin was in cents after May 1941 when the mints were ordered to eliminate "all but a trace" of tin?

 

 

[jesbroken]

Roger,

E-sylum did a nice write up on this effect and offered photos of 1793 Liberty Cap Cent and early British coins with this same effect, so it would not appear to me that it was a wash that caused it and would make me lean more toward the metal content(just a layman's view without any true merit). This is becoming more and more interesting. Hope someone comes forward to help.

Thanks

Jim

 

http://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v12n11a07.html

[RWB]

Until tests are done, it is a matter of opinion; however, until then what is known about how the U.S. mints operated does not support alloy segregation.

 

Very early US or non-US coins might have entirely different causes.

 

(PS: Segregation was well known in silver-copper alloys and the U.S. Mints compensated for it during manufacture of strips and blanks.)