If You Could Give Yourself Numismatic Advice

[physics-fan3.14]

If you could somehow travel back in time 10 years, and give your 10-year-younger-self some hard-earned numismatic advice, what would you tell yourself? What lessons or encouragement wold you share? What insights from the school of hard knocks would you impart?

 

I think I would tell myself several things:

 

1. Always be patient. The right coin will come along, sometimes sooner than you think. Don't buy that coin you see because it is there, wait for just the right one.

 

2. Learn to grade for yourself. 10 years ago, I had a basic understanding of grading, but I relied on the TPGs. I took their word as gospel. If you are buying numbers, this is OK - but we are buying coins. Read a book about grading (I have a suggestion about a good one, if you need it). The TPGs serve an important role, but when you learn to grade for yourself you don't need to depend on someone else to tell you if that coin is good quality or not.

 

3. Eye appeal, above everything else. Always choose the most attractive, eye appealing coin. If you only buy the best, it will serve you well. Refer to #1 - if it doesn't have the right eye appeal, wait for one that does.

 

4. Originality is important. While I haven't had too many problems with un-original coins, some of my purchases were probably less original than I would have hoped. I lost some money selling them, which could have been avoided.

 

5. When the right coin comes along, don't hesitate to buy it. The price isn't terribly important, within reason. Sometimes, when you've been patient and that perfect coin finally shows up, the price might be a little higher than what you wanted to pay. If the coin is all there, don't be afraid to spend up for it. I've missed out on a couple of coins that I regret, because I wasn't willing to spring for them when I should have. But, on the flip side, don't go crazy for it either. Be reasonable. If the coin is going for too much, refer to #1 again, and be patient.

 

6. Focus. Don't get distracted. Focus on a few series. Build something great, rather than an accumulation of random stuff. There are a few series that I am currently working on, but I have the tendency (as do many of us) to buy whatever I see, if it looks pretty. I look at the pile of stuff a year later, and wonder why on earth I bought that. Then I have to try and sell it, sometimes at a loss. Figure out what your goals are, and focus on building a collection rather than a hoard. For most of us, 2 or 3 sets at a time will tap out our budget - there is no way you can make progress on more than that.

 

7. Learn your series. The adage used to be "buy the book before the coin," and in many cases that still holds true. However, even if you don't want to buy the book, do enough research to really figure out what you are doing, rather than randomly buying and making mistakes. There are plenty of resources on the web now that you can make a good start for free. If you refer to #6, focus, this makes it easier. By specializing in a couple of series, you have the time to really learn the ins and outs of those series. There is no way for you to know enough to have the competitive advantage in more than a few series - so dive deep. I learned this the hard way by trying to build a set of French Colonial coinage. I was buying a bunch of stuff, not really knowing what I was doing, and I wound up having a bunch of stuff I didn't understand (and because of that, spent way too much). If I had focused on one or two areas, I would have fared much better.

 

8. If you don't understand a coin, or don't know if its a good price/value, don't buy it. This is a corollary of #6 and #7. There's an old saying "If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it." The numismatic corollary is "If you have to ask if its a good price, you shouldn't buy it." Several times I bought coins which were outside my focus, thinking they might be good values but not really understanding the market. It turns out, I was wrong.

 

9. Ask questions. Ask a dealer, ask a friend, ask a forum. Learn. Never stop learning. If something is unclear, ask. If you don't know something, ask. Never be afraid of looking dumb, because you'll look a lot dumber when you buy an ugly coin or loose a lot of money buying something you shouldn't have. If you don't understand something, you probably shouldn't buy it - but that doesn't mean that you can't learn about it. Once you've learned enough about it to understand it, then you won't have to ask if its a good value or a quality coin. Because you'll know.

 

10. If it isn't fun anymore, take a break. I learned this one the hard way. This is a hobby, and should be fun and relaxing. For most of us, this is not our job. When you find yourself getting more stressed out by coins and collectors than you are finding enjoyment, take a break. Work on a different series, explore a different hobby. Set it aside, and when you are ready come back to it. Several years ago, I was getting really tired of coin collecting, so I set it aside for a few months. I realized that I really did miss it, and so came back with renewed enthusiasm, a different perspective, and a new attitude.

 

So, I could have bypassed a lot of wasted time, and saved a lot of money by knowing and practicing these things. What would you tell your younger numismatic self? Share it here - and maybe we can save some people from making the same mistakes that we did.

 

(focus here on lessons learned and advice - not specific coins you wish you could have bought for their price appreciation)

[bsshog40]

Don't waste your money on those graded Prez Dollars!!

[Walkerfan]

Sometimes, I wish that I had been more active 15-20 years ago and spent more money on coins and less on going out, entertainment, partying, etc. But other times; I feel that my timing was just about right. I learned FIRST and bought RIGHT, so I didn't make huge mistakes, although I did make some along the way. I should have joined these boards sooner, too, that is a big one for me.

[jom]

Jason: I think your list is great.

 

Comments:

 

Personally, I have a real problem with #1 and #6 so I need to work on those.

 

#2 is hard to do when you only go to a few coin shows (or auction) a year.

 

#4 is important but I find myself being a little less concerned about it over the years. I've bought coins I know have been dipped but it doesn't bother me as much as it might other people. I even bought a "graffiti" coin recently because I thought it was funny. To each their own I suppose.

 

#5: I screwed that up many times. It's a matter of....(see next)

 

#7: Very important but easy to do. If you like a series then this should be a breeze.

 

jom

[Houston Investor]

If I were to go back to 1990:

 

I would buy nothing but gold coins I could get close to melt especially modern world gold. I also would buy any Gem CU USA large size notes I could find plus Gem Nationals Banknotes.

 

Ten years ago: Load up on gold and silver bullion and blow out in 2011 when they peaked.

[e1cnr]

go take a grading class

[coinman1794]

Don't waste your money on those graded Prez Dollars!!

 

Hey now, I have an actual "business strike" MS69 pres dollar, and that's a rare instance that the slab is worthwhile. Then again, I paid more for the certification than I did for the coin!

 

Great points, Jason.

[tommy44]

I like Jason's list with #2, #7, #5 and #1 being the most important, and in that order in my opinion.

 

Once you establish a goal #6 Focus is probably next. When available concentrate on buying the keys first and buy the best example you think you can afford.

 

If I followed the above advice when I started collecting over 50 years ago I wouldn't still be looking for most of the keys in my half-eagle set. I'd have more empty holes for sure but assuming I had the money I could fill dozens of the "common date" holes at any major coin show or auction.

[RWB]

Very thoughtful list, Jason.

[coinman_23885]

My advice to myself 10 years ago would be:

 

(1) Don't bother with sub $1000 coins unless the coins are PL, gorgeously toned, or have some other unusual characteristic that would make them desirable (given this is the segment that has been hit hardest now that I wish to liquidate many items); and

 

(2) Invest early on in a quality camera and macro lens so that you can take your own images saving yourself money for imaging and postage/insurance fees.

 

[World Colonial]

For myself, I agree with your points except the following:

 

#1- When I first started collecting, there were coins in my series that I did not buy for this reason. I should have bought them anyway because they effectively do not exist in better grades. The criteria used by probably at least 95% of all US collectors does not apply to my series. I can still remember quite a few.

 

#3 - Same reason as above, though there are also many coins I should not have bought.

 

#4 - Also same reason as #1 above. Many of the coins I collect don't exist with this eye appeal.

 

The biggest mistake I have made is/was buying coins that I could find later versus one that I could and cannot. The coins I collect are more available than they were in the past but most of them are either very difficult or somewhat difficult to buy. So for the most part, I just bought and buy them when they come up for sale but sometimes, a scarcer one becomes available after I have spent my coin budget.

[World Colonial]

If I were to go back to 1990:

 

I would buy nothing but gold coins I could get close to melt especially modern world gold. I also would buy any Gem CU USA large size notes I could find plus Gem Nationals Banknotes.

 

Ten years ago: Load up on gold and silver bullion and blow out in 2011 when they peaked.

 

I see your point but it doesn't have anything to do with collecting.

[bsshog40]

 

I think I would tell myself several things:

 

 

 

6. Focus. Don't get distracted. Focus on a few series. Build something great, rather than an accumulation of random stuff. There are a few series that I am currently working on, but I have the tendency (as do many of us) to buy whatever I see, if it looks pretty. I look at the pile of stuff a year later, and wonder why on earth I bought that. Then I have to try and sell it, sometimes at a loss. Figure out what your goals are, and focus on building a collection rather than a hoard. For most of us, 2 or 3 sets at a time will tap out our budget - there is no way you can make progress on more than that.

 

 

9. Ask questions. Ask a dealer, ask a friend, ask a forum. Learn. Never stop learning. If something is unclear, ask. If you don't know something, ask. Never be afraid of looking dumb, because you'll look a lot dumber when you buy an ugly coin or loose a lot of money buying something you shouldn't have. If you don't understand something, you probably shouldn't buy it - but that doesn't mean that you can't learn about it. Once you've learned enough about it to understand it, then you won't have to ask if its a good value or a quality coin. Because you'll know.

 

10. If it isn't fun anymore, take a break. I learned this one the hard way. This is a hobby, and should be fun and relaxing. For most of us, this is not our job. When you find yourself getting more stressed out by coins and collectors than you are finding enjoyment, take a break. Work on a different series, explore a different hobby. Set it aside, and when you are ready come back to it. Several years ago, I was getting really tired of coin collecting, so I set it aside for a few months. I realized that I really did miss it, and so came back with renewed enthusiasm, a different perspective, and a new attitude.

Well I guess I'll come back with a little seriousness. I picked out the ones that I think/thought fit me better. So with:

#6 - My focus has gotten much better but would have been good advice to myself a long time ago.

#9 - I have always believed there is never a dumb question. And I've always believed not to treat someone as being dumb for asking one. One of the reasons I joined this forum 9 yrs ago.

#10 - I think this one is important. I've actually been taking a break since my dad passed in Jan to persue some time to hurology. It's been a nice little change and I enjoy it like I did when I first started collecting coins. I still enjoy my coins but I just needed to move away from them for a while as I wasn't feeling enthusiastic about them as I used to. The watches have been fun and very interesting at this time. I guess for mow I will just have to play on both sides of the fence gor a while.

 

[physics-fan3.14]

When available concentrate on buying the keys first

 

This is one oft-repeated piece of advice that I actually strongly disagree with. When you are first starting a series, you are more likely to make mistakes. You don't know much about the series and you are still learning the subtleties. You don't know the intricacies of the series (grading, eye appeal, strike, values, price history, demand, etc). To be clear, when I say "you," I mean myself as well.

 

A key date is, by definition, the most expensive in the series (or, one of the top few most expensive). Thus, if you make a mistake with a key date, it will cost you far more money. A common misconception is that key dates are rare, or scarce. Actually, key dates are often quite easy coins to find in a series, because they are widely popular and trade often. They're just expensive because of their perceived rarity. For example, the 09S-VDB Lincoln has 8359 examples graded by NGC alone. This is common as dirt - far more than any other date. Its just correspondingly popular.

 

I would make the case that you should buy some of the most common (least expensive) dates in a series first, while you are still learning the series. Once you understand the series and have an idea what you are doing, then you can go for the key dates. If you make a serious error on a $100 coin, big deal - you're out the price of a decent dinner at most. However, if you make a serious error on a $5k coin, you're out a mortgage payment. For some of us, that's not a big deal. For most of us, that's a very serious mistake!

 

When should you buy the key dates? That's up to you, and how quickly you learn the series. It will vary with each person. But definitely not first!

 

The counter-argument that people will give is that the key dates will tend to appreciate faster. If you buy the keys last, you've missed out on several years of price increases. I have two rebuttals: first, prices are cyclical. You can't predict if a price will go up or down, even for keys. Sure, keys tend to appreciate faster than the other pieces in a series, but even they are subject to downward pressure. Waiting a year or two (the approximate time to really learn a series, based on the average learning curve) won't really hurt your baseline over the long term, and will vastly improve your experience level (are we investors, or collectors?).

 

Second, lets say a coin is $2k now. Over the next 3 years, it'll appreciate to $2500. However, if you buy that key now, without knowing what you are doing, you might have instead paid $2k for a cleaned or ugly coin worth only $1500. Is it worth potentially paying $500 more for an attractive coin, or losing $500 on a coin that is not what you thought it was (and, lets be honest, which case is more likely, if you are unfamiliar with a series?)

 

This is advice based on my experience. You can do with it what you will...

[Walkerfan]

May I add the following:

 

I wish that I could have told myself to learn how to grade (as I can now) first before purchasing expensive, raw coins that were represented as MS coins. I made that mistake, once, many, many years ago and it was costly.

 

Also, if you are looking for a 64, then don't buy a 63 or if you are looking for a 65, then don't buy a 64, etc., as you will likely lose money, if you sell and upgrade, in the short term, unless you have them regraded or reconsidered.

[jom]

If I were to go back to 1990:

 

I would buy nothing but gold coins I could get close to melt especially modern world gold. I also would buy any Gem CU USA large size notes I could find plus Gem Nationals Banknotes.

 

Ten years ago: Load up on gold and silver bullion and blow out in 2011 when they peaked.

 

Screw that! I go back to 1990, buy 10 shares of Berkshire Hathaway, sell it today and go buy whatever coins I want. Brent Pogue, here I come!

 

jom

[TonerGuy]

when in doubt ask Mark Feld...

[coinman_23885]

If I were to go back to 1990:

 

I would buy nothing but gold coins I could get close to melt especially modern world gold. I also would buy any Gem CU USA large size notes I could find plus Gem Nationals Banknotes.

 

Ten years ago: Load up on gold and silver bullion and blow out in 2011 when they peaked.

 

Screw that! I go back to 1990, buy 10 shares of Berkshire Hathaway, sell it today and go buy whatever coins I want. Brent Pogue, here I come!

 

jom

 

(thumbs u

 

I'd be sure to buy shares of AOL, Apple, and Google too if able to do so.

[michael]

If you could somehow travel back in time 10 years, and give your 10-year-younger-self some hard-earned numismatic advice, what would you tell yourself?

 

I should have bought a 5 pound jar of vaseline

[World Colonial]

I also don't believe buying the most widely collected expensive keys today is a good financial move. Buying them first in the past has been but for reasons previously discussed in other threads, I believe most of them will be money losers and if not, definitely underperform on a relative basis.

[johnny9434]

i like the second one, learn how to grade yourself. i think its good to help yourself get the better grades later on i hope thats said right & fwiw.

[brg5658]

6. Focus. Don't get distracted. Focus on a few series. Build something great, rather than an accumulation of random stuff. There are a few series that I am currently working on, but I have the tendency (as do many of us) to buy whatever I see, if it looks pretty. I look at the pile of stuff a year later, and wonder why on earth I bought that. Then I have to try and sell it, sometimes at a loss. Figure out what your goals are, and focus on building a collection rather than a hoard. For most of us, 2 or 3 sets at a time will tap out our budget - there is no way you can make progress on more than that.

 

Jason, all good points, but I disagree with your phrasing of #6. This point seems to imply that there is only one way to collect coins. I personally like thematic collecting, which means I purposefully don't collect series and I do buy a little bit of everything...if it meets my standards of quality and my collection needs. I don't buy garbage, but there are a good number of collectors who collect what they personally find beautiful -- some "series" focus could mean you collect 50 examples of a dog-ugly coin design like Franklin half dollars...

 

 

The definition of a collection is up to the collector, not to someone else's ideals of what a collection is. One man's collection is another man's hoard. I consider a complete collection of Morgan dollars by date and mint mark to be a hoard (and frankly quite boring). That's one of the joys of collecting, is that it can and should be personal.

 

Great topic! (thumbs u

 

 

[Danye West]

^

 

 

Advice to myself: Don't risk cross grading or reconsideration!

[coinman_23885]

^

 

 

Advice to myself: Don't risk cross grading or reconsideration!

 

Other than the submission and postage/insurance fees, what risk is there in submitting under the reconsideration tier?

[Danye West]

It's $30 and when I thought I was 100% getting an upgrade I didn't.

[Raisethis2]

I think your list was pretty spot on.

 

For me the changes would have been : don't settle for a coin that has any chance of having been cleaned. There's just too many that have not been.

 

: Buy what you like but sell occasionally. You just don't know if you're getting robbed until you sell. Then you know better what right from wrong looks like.

 

: Understand as much as you can about every facet of the hobby. There was a book written earlier this year by a guy named Jason Poe who was fairly comprehensive in educating me about collecting coins, discussing many new things I'd not heard of.

 

Google him.

[physics-fan3.14]

6. Focus. Don't get distracted. Focus on a few series. Build something great, rather than an accumulation of random stuff. There are a few series that I am currently working on, but I have the tendency (as do many of us) to buy whatever I see, if it looks pretty. I look at the pile of stuff a year later, and wonder why on earth I bought that. Then I have to try and sell it, sometimes at a loss. Figure out what your goals are, and focus on building a collection rather than a hoard. For most of us, 2 or 3 sets at a time will tap out our budget - there is no way you can make progress on more than that.

 

Jason, all good points, but I disagree with your phrasing of #6. This point seems to imply that there is only one way to collect coins. I personally like thematic collecting, which means I purposefully don't collect series and I do buy a little bit of everything...if it meets my standards of quality and my collection needs. I don't buy garbage, but there are a good number of collectors who collect what they personally find beautiful -- some "series" focus could mean you collect 50 examples of a dog-ugly coin design like Franklin half dollars...

 

 

The definition of a collection is up to the collector, not to someone else's ideals of what a collection is. One man's collection is another man's hoard. I consider a complete collection of Morgan dollars by date and mint mark to be a hoard (and frankly quite boring). That's one of the joys of collecting, is that it can and should be personal.

 

Great topic! (thumbs u

 

 

I strongly agree with your points, but I hope my language didn't contradict this. I never defined what a set was: thematic sets such as your superlative horse-themed sets are equally as valid as any so-called Redbook set. You've chosen your theme, and defined the constraints of your set - and have built something truly fascinating.

 

However, and I think you'd agree, you've maintained your focus. You may have chosen something off the beaten path, but there is a clear goal for your set. The coins that you buy meet the basic criteria of adding to your set. You aren't buying random stuff.

 

If there are some ligaments to hold a set together, as loosely defined as that may be, and as long as the collector maintains that "focus" it doesn't really matter how you define the "set." Its when you start buying random stuff on a whim that my point #6 breaks down. And I know plenty of people (especially on other forums) for which "focus" is a particularly hard issue.

[KMAG100]

When available concentrate on buying the keys first

 

I would make the case that you should buy some of the most common (least expensive) dates in a series first, while you are still learning the series. Once you understand the series and have an idea what you are doing, then you can go for the key dates. If you make a serious error on a $100 coin, big deal - you're out the price of a decent dinner at most. However, if you make a serious error on a $5k coin, you're out a mortgage payment. For some of us, that's not a big deal. For most of us, that's a very serious mistake!

 

 

I agree with Jason. I purely lucked into that with my first collection, but when I think back it was the best thing that happened for me. It allowed me to get a great sense of the market dynamics, and who had the coins. In addition, it allowed me to value buy initially until I understood the pricing of the series.

 

I also like what WF said with respect to if you are looking for a higher quality coin don't settle for a lower quality coin. I did that a couple of time holding slots, and never was happy with the coin. If the coin does not make you feel good I don't buy it......Not worth the anguish. But the best thing I ever did in my short little five year collecting experience is participate on this board......Sky is the limit now and the learning curve has a 80 degree slope.

[bourse28]

sell it all in 2011 when gold and silver at recent peak