Hmmmmmmmmm Does this look like the same coin? What's your guess

[KMAG100]

July

 

 

 

August

[physics-fan3.14]

Yes, that is clearly the same coin. I'm not entirely sure what your point is - the differences you see between the two pictures can easily be explained by the different lighting and camera. If you are implying something was done to dip/lighten the toning, I don't believe that to be the case (and/or, that conclusion could not be drawn from those pictures).

[bsshog40]

Agree with Jason. Same coin just different pics. Look at the reeding and you can tell the pics were taken at different angles.

[KMAG100]

I completely believe it to be the same coin also. Just trying to get others opinion on it ....No tricks intended on my part....What I found interesting is in a month it grew a grade. Both slabs were sent to CAC and both came back with a green bean. The NGC slab is one of those edge views so it was relatively new to that slab. I have heard talk about this but have never seen a coin that I could identify this change in grade inflation. I guess I should have posted the below picture the first time.

 

 

 

[Nutmeg Coin]

Probably on the line between 66/67. With CAC I have had such upgrades get beaned based on how grading is often as much an art as a science.

[bsshog40]

Maybe Sept. we will see PR68.

 

 

[physics-fan3.14]

Wow, that's graded much higher than I expected. With the haze and the fingerprints, this coin tops out at 65 in my book.

[RWB]

By the Winter Solstice it will be Proof 69, with a wreath of holly berries.

[coinman1794]

I don't care for the prints, myself, but it's very typical for the services to forgive them when determining grade. As for the 66 to 67, it is also very common for opinions to differ by a point or two at the various services, and likewise at CAC.

[Walkerfan]

Same coin. They should have left it at MS 66. Don't care for the toning OR the prints. When I see stuff like this; I can't understand the mindset of the Kool-Aid crowd.

[KMAG100]

I don't care for the prints, myself, but it's very typical for the services to forgive them when determining grade. As for the 66 to 67, it is also very common for opinions to differ by a point or two at the various services, and likewise at CAC.

 

While I can wrap my mind around the difference in grade between pcgs and ngc, however the cac grade bothers me a bit because they saw the coin in hand both times....What I understand about the green bean is cac saying the coin is solid for its grade, but not that it is under graded. The gold bean is for coins they believe to be under graded....So the challange is how can both grades be solid ....or do they mean the 66 is solid for ngc grading practice and the 67 is solid for pcgs grading practice?

[coinman_23885]

In my opinion, CAC is the least consistent with its application of the gold sticker. I don't think your story is as uncommon as you would believe. At one point, when the gold stickers command large premiums above the next grade regardless of the coin quality, I encouraged people to submit to CAC in hopes of a gold sticker. Now that the prices on those have finally leveled off, I would no longer do so and would recommend that all under graded coins be sent back to PCGS or NGC before a final trip to CAC to maximize potential in the market.

[coinman1794]

I don't care for the prints, myself, but it's very typical for the services to forgive them when determining grade. As for the 66 to 67, it is also very common for opinions to differ by a point or two at the various services, and likewise at CAC.

 

While I can wrap my mind around the difference in grade between pcgs and ngc, however the cac grade bothers me a bit because they saw the coin in hand both times....What I understand about the green bean is cac saying the coin is solid for its grade, but not that it is under graded. The gold bean is for coins they believe to be under graded....So the challange is how can both grades be solid ....or do they mean the 66 is solid for ngc grading practice and the 67 is solid for pcgs grading practice?

 

CAC seeing a high-end MS66 and then seeing a high-end MS67 is a 1 point spread. Again, it is very common to see all the services vary by 1 or even 2 points.

 

There is little chance the CAC graders remembered the coin from one submission to the next, and there is no way to trace it with the holder change.

 

Without seeing the coin in hand, my go-to grade would have to be PF64, due to the heavy, surface-etching prints.

[johnny9434]

same coin indeed. looks like some ones playing a game

[MarkFeld]

same coin indeed. looks like some ones playing a game

 

If by "game", you mean cracking a coin out and submitting it to a different grading company, than yes, it appears someone played a "game". But I see nothing nefarious.

[Lucky One]

I completely believe it to be the same coin also. Just trying to get others opinion on it ....No tricks intended on my part....What I found interesting is in a month it grew a grade. Both slabs were sent to CAC and both came back with a green bean. The NGC slab is one of those edge views so it was relatively new to that slab. I have heard talk about this but have never seen a coin that I could identify this change in grade inflation. I guess I should have posted the below picture the first time.

 

 

I have been collecting slabbed coins since David Hall pumped out his first slab. One of my very first slabs was a 1865 three cent piece in a PCGS MS63 slab. Back then they were so conservative that the term 'crackout' was immediately coind because so many dealers disagreed with the grades they received. As a collector, I could see why and I immediateky disagreed with that MS63 desig, figuring closer to MS65. I snt it back and get the big five grade and that was the beginning of my long education with the profssional slabbers. Not long after I bought a MS63 1865 red cent and could see they were far off on that one- it came back a five too. I now collect half eagles and have had the same experiences- almost very grade that I disagree with came back the gade expected with the exception of those that came back as details graded on the second attempt. But don;t thibk that is the only direction they go- recently I sent in a raw XF-AU expecting it to be details graded either XF or AU, it came back straight graded XF. What does all this mean? There isn't really that much 'grade-flation' involvd in my humble opnion- I think that we're all human and our perceptions change with the hour, every single day. But they have three people grading each coin! you say? Well, they're *all* still human, aren't they? For me, the designation on the slab is just a guide, a fallible human opinion influenced as much by mood as by experience, so I ignore the grade and pull out my loup before I pull out my wallet

 

Thanks for sharing your experience, I love keeping tabs on these. When deciding to purchase a new coin for my st, I use the online archives to research not only the issue but the exact coin that I'm thnking about buying. I often find the same coins in different slabs in a progression of auctions until it is in the slab I am considering. If you use Heritage, it is a good place to test what I say. It is very interesting to see all the different opinions on some of them!

[Raisethis2]

I think this is part of a growing trend. Insiders know that proof coins with toning often were previously "held back" a bit if it was neutral to unattractive. I think there's a loosening of the standard.

 

Just my opinion/observation.

[Nutmeg Coin]

This upgrade is not the huge one the crack out artists are looking for; numismedia wholesale is $585 in 66 and $815 67, the big jump happens in 68: http://coins.ha.com/itm/walking-liberty-half-dollars/half-dollars/1939-50c-pr67-pcgs-cac/a/1187-4147.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

 

A Vermont dealer told me about a $2 1/2 Pan Pac piece certified MS67 CAC by PCGS coming into his store and he checked around for offers for the collector. It turned out being worth around $8K to a MA dealer, which was the high offer from those surveyed. In that case the CAC sticker was worth a lot more money for the dealer who paid for it based on auction records he could easily resell it at substantial profit.

[James_OldeTowne]

I completely believe it to be the same coin also. Just trying to get others opinion on it ....No tricks intended on my part....What I found interesting is in a month it grew a grade. Both slabs were sent to CAC and both came back with a green bean. The NGC slab is one of those edge views so it was relatively new to that slab. I have heard talk about this but have never seen a coin that I could identify this change in grade inflation. I guess I should have posted the below picture the first time.

 

 

 

This does not surprise me at all. I do believe the best lesson learned at the ANA this past week was the extraordinary level of "crackout attempts" in the marketplace today. I was frankly shocked at how many entrepreneurs are not engaged in this activity. It is not something I just never knew about before, either -- this really is THE best new moneymaker for the speculator today, according to both what I've noticed and what was explained to me at the show.