Pricing education for Toning

[Davids5104]

My questions are as follows....

 

how do you price Star attributed coins?

how do you price MS65 or any other grade that has toning? specifically if a coin is MS65 and sells for 60 dollars through various auctions and you have one with nice toning but not Star designated how do you all price it?

 

This is a tough thing for me to grasp because I feel like Plus graded coins should almost universally be higher priced than STAR attributed.

 

Please tell me why I am not thinking about this accurately.

 

[KeyMan64]

This is learned. Go to Heritage and Great Collections then select your series and add all the coins to your watch list that interest you. Do this for a few months and you will grasp the general ideas I believe. You can also search completed auctions on Heritage, eBay and Great Collections to understand the same things.

 

Your questions are a bit broad and will be different for each coin/grade etc...populations of those coins etc. If you have a very specific examples to compare then maybe better answers can be provided.

[e1cnr]

I feel you are looking for a 'formula' when it is based individually.

 

 

Besides what Keyman64 mentioned, you can take a common date of a series, and look for higher priced sales in mid/upper grades, but not necessarily top pop.

[coinman_23885]

The star designation means that a coin supposedly has superior eye appeal, and nothing more. The price depends on the eye appeal, which varies tremendously among pieces. Each piece needs to be assessed on its own merits.

[coinman_23885]

This is a tough thing for me to grasp because I feel like Plus graded coins should almost universally be higher priced than STAR attributed.

 

Please tell me why I am not thinking about this accurately.

 

Which would you rather have (and there is no wrong answer)?: A MS65 common date Morgan Dollar with monster toning and a star or a common blast white MS65+ Morgan Dollar? The latter is common as can be and can readily be located at any coin show. The same cannot be said of the first coin. For me, at least, I would choose the star designated toner here. Others may feel differently. In many cases the difference between a coin that is solid for the grade and one that has a + designation is marginal, and is far outweighed by superior eye appeal.

[Davids5104]

based on my limited understanding, the star designation should only be assigned to the top 5-10% of the which ever MS grade the coin has. I figured while this is not necessarily the same as the Plus designation; the plus designation would run about at the same level. the high availability of the morgan sounds like to me they were too giving of the Plus designation. But I simply do not know if that is true.

 

Incidentally, for the most part I am referring to Roosevelt dimes... I am making people mad unintentionally because of what apparently is low offers for these Star coins, but without guidance I am looking at MS67 and ms67+ grades and somewhat arbitrarily selecting a price that seems reasonable to me.

[coinman_23885]

based on my limited understanding, the star designation should only be assigned to the top 5-10% of the which ever MS grade the coin has. I figured while this is not necessarily the same as the Plus designation; the plus designation would run about at the same level. the high availability of the morgan sounds like to me they were too giving of the Plus designation. But I simply do not know if that is true.

 

Incidentally, for the most part I am referring to Roosevelt dimes... I am making people mad unintentionally because of what apparently is low offers for these Star coins, but without guidance I am looking at MS67 and ms67+ grades and somewhat arbitrarily selecting a price that seems reasonable to me.

 

There is some confusion. The star designation and plus designation are not comparable. The latter only talks about the technical merits of the coin's grade, and is assigned to the top 15-20% for the grade. A star is awarded to any coin that has superior eye appeal. There are no percentile rankings or defined standards for the star. It is very subjective. In some case, a star may be worth multiples of the generic. In some cases, there might not be any difference. Each piece needs to be evaluated on its merits.

[coinman_23885]

P.S. Post some examples.

[Davids5104]

1957 D MS67 Star Roosevelt dime is an example right now. Coin is listed below. I like this coin a lot but all my offers are rejected and I am told I am not offering enough. I am just not understanding that eye appeal alters coin values more than the grade. If you are all saying it does, so be it, but then the lack of consistency in how to price coins is beyond difficult to comprehend. I have purchased coins from this particular seller before.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-D-Roosevelt-Dime-PCGS-MS67-STAR-Neon-Rainbow-Toned-Colorful-Toning-6D-/281747932628?&autorefresh=true

[Raisethis2]

NGC price guide illustrates prices for an MS coin and for that same grade with the plus. That's a handy guide, In most cases the plus doesn't add as much as I thought it might.

 

Star designated coins are rarer than hens teeth. A coin with a star, having superior eye appeal should command a considerable amount more than it's non-star cousins. I'm of the opinion that in many cases 25% or more is a starting point on color.

 

Those thinking this is too much should just buy the non-star version of the coin in question.

 

 

[Six Mile Rick]

The STAR is there for a reason. -- More rarity than a regular grade.

 

Eye appeal - whites, PL strike, or superior toning. To pass on a coin such as this may haunt you later just wishing you grabbed it when you had the chance.

 

Early coins did not get a PL designation. They got a STAR. Be careful on what you pass up.

 

Rick

[Coinbuf]

You are trying to apply logic and a method to an illogical and unpredictable toned coin market. I have seen toned coins that to me were quite unattractive go for (to me again) crazy amounts of money. You simply have to decide for yourself what is too much to pay, if the price is over that then move on and keep searching. Toned coins are not that hard to find and more and more are being pumped through the TPG's each day now.

[Afterword]

"You simply have to decide for yourself what is too much to pay, if the price is over that then move on and keep searching."

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with this.

[Six Mile Rick]

CORRECT!! But talking STAR and PLUS coins covers more than just TONED coins.

 

That is why I do not collect toned coins. HOWEVER --- If the STAR is on the slab for a replacement of the old W --- white that NGC no longer uses or a PL coin which NGC didn't use till recent moderns. I grab the PL and white STAR coins from older dates -- NOT TONED.

 

If you collect toned coins that is your decision. I don't and the reasons behind that are not part of this post. All STAR coins are not TONERS!!

 

Rick

[dadams]

Just on a whim from HA:

 

MS67 FT @$282

 

 

MS67 ★ @705

 

MS67 +★ @1,057

[david3142]

With nicely toned coins you have to throw out the price guide. There are MS65 1881-S Morgan dollars that have recently sold at Legend auctions for north of $10,000. There are also Morgans (same date/grade) with nice eye appeal, and maybe even a star that could be had for $200.

 

As for dimes, Roosevelts often come nicely toned. There are many of them for most date/MM combinations. You can probably find a 67* for not much more than price guide, but it isn't going to be a monster by any means. The coin you linked to is nice - the rainbow is very pretty but the rest of the coin is a little dark and spotted.

 

Look at realized prices for coins on eBay and especially Heritage sales. Their archive is very easy to search. Beware that the FT designation can sometimes add multiples to the value of the coin and NGC and PCGS can be treated differently as well. (Obviously, PCGS doesn't offer the star, so if you limit your search to that you will only see NGC coins.)

 

With practice you will develop a sense of value and your own preferences as well.

[Davids5104]

nice coins. I would have given a higher price for the FT than the star. hmmm, I guess I need experience and a credit line

[Six Mile Rick]

Nice 64's Doug --- a candy and a So-So.

Can you find a PL or NGC W grade from that date?

 

 

1947-S MS67* FT -----WHITE

 

 

 

1960 MS67* -----WHITE

 

 

 

All star coins are not toners

[david3142]

That 64 in 67* is amazingly toned. Also, 1964 is rarer with nice color than some of the other dates. As for the 67FT, bear in mind that coins in 66FT and above in NGC holders may be worth quite a bit less than those in PCGS holders. Obviously, this will vary by date/MM and grade level. Compare auction records to see the differences.

[Six Mile Rick]

1964 nicely toned is not a rare coin. I have an album that has some beautifully toned silver dimes in it. The row for 1962 to 1964-D is on the top and gets oxygen along with humidity to make some GREAT BLUES!!

[leeg]

In the past I have asked the sellers with "make an offer," what their sell price is. They tell me and I decide if I want the coin at their price.

 

 

[e1cnr]

1957 D MS67 Star Roosevelt dime is an example right now. Coin is listed below. I like this coin a lot but all my offers are rejected and I am told I am not offering enough. I am just not understanding that eye appeal alters coin values more than the grade. If you are all saying it does, so be it, but then the lack of consistency in how to price coins is beyond difficult to comprehend. I have purchased coins from this particular seller before.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-D-Roosevelt-Dime-PCGS-MS67-STAR-Neon-Rainbow-Toned-Colorful-Toning-6D-/281747932628?&autorefresh=true

 

I like to compare with NGCs pics/price

 

http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/index.aspx?CertNumber=4024252-003

 

the reverse will probably be darker than I like - there are also some sellers that price most things at twice what I would be willing to pay, but they only have to sell it once....

[dadams]

Search completed listings - they paid 65 for the coin, bought from Shane.

[rockhobby]

I could find only one MS67 * graded (non FT 1957D ) that was sold by Heritage. It sold for $129.25 on Oct. 20, 2012. Seems like the price might be fair.

 

After all, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

 

 

Doug

[RWB]

"... talking STAR and PLUS coins..." are similar to Mr. Ed and the horse in those beach commercials.

 

It all comes down to personal appeal of a particular coin - there's no magic formula.

 

Interesting how the commercial grading of coins seems to have made the whole subject of "value" much more complicated and contentious than it once was.

[KMAG100]

Just on a whim from HA:

 

MS67 FT @$282

 

 

MS67 ★ @705

 

MS67 +★ @1,057

 

The 67* I like the least, and would go no where close to $705

The 67*+ looks nice but $1,057 no way......So I guess I would end up with the 67 for $282...

[Lucky One]

My questions are as follows....

 

how do you price Star attributed coins?

how do you price MS65 or any other grade that has toning? specifically if a coin is MS65 and sells for 60 dollars through various auctions and you have one with nice toning but not Star designated how do you all price it?

 

This is a tough thing for me to grasp because I feel like Plus graded coins should almost universally be higher priced than STAR attributed.

 

Please tell me why I am not thinking about this accurately.

 

 

simple- what do *you* honestly think it is worth? What is the most you would have pad for it if you didn't get it for what you did? Price it as fairly as you humanly can and if you think it is a bit too high, allow offers. Pricing beautiful objects is not hard because they have the greatest demand, always worth a premium. How much out of the ordinary dictates how much of a premium. Color coins can go for ten or a hundred times what a standard untoned example. As for Star or +, so what? All it boils down to is the coin, not any opinion on a label, and the next buyer will agree...