Dealer Buy-Back Prices

[Nutmeg Coin]

It was an 1824 large cent in xf45. Check out the GS XF/AU prices vs. HA actual auction results. It shows a huge difference. GS is supposedly active dealer bids, and if no one is bidding coins in short supply the prices do not usually change.

 

This still does not explain how the Gray Sheet has been WAY TOO LOW on early and middle date large cents and half cents for well over 20 years. Could be that no one in the Gray Sheet dealer network who supplies information has bought or sold an early or middle date copper coin over that entire time?

 

It will be interesting to see what quarterly I shows tomorrow when it comes out online (second Wednesday).

 

I agree, across the board many of the issues are low. How about early quarters? As far as I can see all the large eagle Bust quarters, at least the more common ones, run double GS in fine and certainly more than GS in many of the grades at auction. If GS was a doctor outfit they could be sued for malpractice. I know a major show dealer, Vic Bozarth wrote on all the prices that are off, and they did not like it.

[leeg]

That's a nice coin! It is a good date! It has blessing from the sticker company. I just have a feeling that if you had posted that on the BST/MoneyMarketplace etc, you could have done better. I understand you were in a time crunch but I think there were a couple of other quick sale opportunities that were not explored and the dealer took advantage of you.

 

Good luck! I hope you can bounce back from the money crunch quickly.

 

The coin WAS posted on the BST here...

 

brg5658 is correct. I did list this coin on the BST for a week or so. I was just trying to get out of it what I paid into it with no takers.

 

I sent this dealer an email explaining my thoughts around the coin hoping he would give me a fair price like most dealers would do. Here is his reply:

 

Lee,

 

I am sincerely sorry for your personal loss and understand how challenging these times can be.

 

My valuation of that coin or any coin is based on What I believe the market prospects are. The market has spent the year sliding. I simply don't believe I will realize the same amount for it this time around. All dealers and collectors are subject to the fluctuations of the market. The last half of 2014 and the first quarter of 2015 has been a wake up call to a market that basically got stronger for almost ten years. Coins could still keep cheaper before they get more expensive and that continuing momentum keeps asking prices under pressure.

 

I hope this helps to explain my position.

 

Coin Dealer

 

 

 

I will not state who this dealer is.

 

 

 

I think for a coin of this type that 90% buy-back would have been fair.

 

Life is all about learning. I learned something today. Even though it hurt financially, it's a life lesson. Once you stop learning you stop living.

 

 

 

Enjoy your coins!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

[Houston Investor]

I would say the high range would be 60-70% of what the dealer thinks he can move it for in a reasonable period of time. Coins are a retail hobby business. The low range may be 50-60% on slower moving material. Some stuff like cupro nickel mods I would not pay above 40% of say CW Trends for if even that.

 

The most I would offer on a numismatic coin is 70% of what I think I can price it at / sell it for. This equates to a 30% margin which is around what it takes to stay in the business. At a minimum I price coins at cost + 40%. Variable selling expense is 15% of sales alone. The balance is for my fixed costs and commission.

 

If you were not happy with the dealers offer its your responsibility to shop the coin around. You could have pursued selling it on ebay. Or you could have taken it to a show and shopped it around the bourse.

At a show a dealer set up next to my table paid 80% of CDN Bid on a slab collection he bought (about 40 coins) and then was pricing this material at CDN + 40 to 50%. Some coins he considered PQ were priced higher than that. During the show about 20% for the coins sold. He planned to keep the rest for the balance of the year in hope of retailing online / shows then liquidate on ebay starting bid 99c. I was offered a few at 90-105% of CDN Bid at a future show as he was walking the floor with a box of coins.

 

Its not the dealers fault you were forced to liquidate the coin or his responsibility you make money on the deal. It does not appear to me you should be buying big ticket numismatic material like that. Put the $2K into bullion coins which are very liquid on ebay like gold and silver eagles. Your downside then is simply BV (they should bring at least that on ebay).

 

Its easier to buy coins than sell them. I have moved coins in as little as 2 weeks and had others sit in inventory for years. Coins can be a long term hold and there is no guarantee they will make money. One should get some experience selling coins before putting substantial money into them.

 

In researching this coins market value and auction history I would say $1600 Sell and around $1250 wholesale (based on Auction median price). So if you paid more than $1600 for it looks like you were buried in it to begin with. And I have found this can be par for the course a lot of times, people become passionate about owning a coin. However the reality of this will sink in if forced to sell early on. Further more in looking at its photo I consider it a B coin (A, B, C) not an A coin. I consider it solid quality, not premium quality. In addition, with the market being in the tank like it has, I would be hard pressed to offer anywhere near $1250 for it. If I shopped it around the bourse at a show today (forced to sell) I would be doing good to get $1000 for it IMO.

[Mark T]

I had an emergency that required me to sell a coin back to the coin dealer I bought it from. I didn't feel he gave me a fair shake on the coin. Cost me over 2K.

 

Mark Feld was always fair on his buy-back prices.

 

What do feel is a fair percentage when selling back to the coin dealer of purchase?

 

TIA.

 

 

Maybe I am missing something , how did you lose 2 K on a coin with a $1500 retail that were selling for on average around $1,250 for the last few years ?? Yes you should have called CAC , just a guess but you probably would have been offered at least $ 1,000 for the coin. I sold a bunch of CAC coins last year to CAC , the prices offered were fantastic .

[Hard Times]

That's a nice coin! It is a good date! It has blessing from the sticker company. I just have a feeling that if you had posted that on the BST/MoneyMarketplace etc, you could have done better. I understand you were in a time crunch but I think there were a couple of other quick sale opportunities that were not explored and the dealer took advantage of you.

 

Good luck! I hope you can bounce back from the money crunch quickly.

 

The coin WAS posted on the BST here...

 

brg5658 is correct. I did list this coin on the BST for a week or so. I was just trying to get out of it what I paid into it with no takers.

 

I sent this dealer an email explaining my thoughts around the coin hoping he would give me a fair price like most dealers would do. Here is his reply:

 

Lee,

 

I am sincerely sorry for your personal loss and understand how challenging these times can be.

 

My valuation of that coin or any coin is based on What I believe the market prospects are. The market has spent the year sliding. I simply don't believe I will realize the same amount for it this time around. All dealers and collectors are subject to the fluctuations of the market. The last half of 2014 and the first quarter of 2015 has been a wake up call to a market that basically got stronger for almost ten years. Coins could still keep cheaper before they get more expensive and that continuing momentum keeps asking prices under pressure.

 

I hope this helps to explain my position.

 

Coin Dealer

 

 

 

I will not state who this dealer is.

 

 

 

I think for a coin of this type that 90% buy-back would have been fair.

 

Life is all about learning. I learned something today. Even though it hurt financially, it's a life lesson. Once you stop learning you stop living.

 

 

 

Enjoy your coins!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Any reputable dealer who believes in his/her customers and believes in his/her coins he/she sells starts at 90% buy back and higher if the value has risen since purchase. Does not matter if the coin was bought yesterday or 10 years ago. These are the dealers I go back to because I know they have my back.

 

Best, HT

[leeg]

[leeg]

I would say the high range would be 60-70% of what the dealer thinks he can move it for in a reasonable period of time. Coins are a retail hobby business. The low range may be 50-60% on slower moving material. Some stuff like cupro nickel mods I would not pay above 40% of say CW Trends for if even that.

 

The most I would offer on a numismatic coin is 70% of what I think I can price it at / sell it for. This equates to a 30% margin which is around what it takes to stay in the business. At a minimum I price coins at cost + 40%. Variable selling expense is 15% of sales alone. The balance is for my fixed costs and commission.

 

If you were not happy with the dealers offer its your responsibility to shop the coin around. You could have pursued selling it on ebay. Or you could have taken it to a show and shopped it around the bourse.

At a show a dealer set up next to my table paid 80% of CDN Bid on a slab collection he bought (about 40 coins) and then was pricing this material at CDN + 40 to 50%. Some coins he considered PQ were priced higher than that. During the show about 20% for the coins sold. He planned to keep the rest for the balance of the year in hope of retailing online / shows then liquidate on ebay starting bid 99c. I was offered a few at 90-105% of CDN Bid at a future show as he was walking the floor with a box of coins.

 

Its not the dealers fault you were forced to liquidate the coin or his responsibility you make money on the deal. It does not appear to me you should be buying big ticket numismatic material like that. Put the $2K into bullion coins which are very liquid on ebay like gold and silver eagles. Your downside then is simply BV (they should bring at least that on ebay).

 

Its easier to buy coins than sell them. I have moved coins in as little as 2 weeks and had others sit in inventory for years. Coins can be a long term hold and there is no guarantee they will make money. One should get some experience selling coins before putting substantial money into them.

 

[leeg]

I had an emergency that required me to sell a coin back to the coin dealer I bought it from. I didn't feel he gave me a fair shake on the coin. Cost me over 2K.

 

Mark Feld was always fair on his buy-back prices.

 

What do feel is a fair percentage when selling back to the coin dealer of purchase?

 

TIA.

 

 

Maybe I am missing something , how did you lose 2 K on a coin with a $1500 retail that were selling for on average around $1,250 for the last few years ?? Yes you should have called CAC , just a guess but you probably would have been offered at least $ 1,000 for the coin. I sold a bunch of CAC coins last year to CAC , the prices offered were fantastic .

 

I paid a little over 2K for the coin and this coin dealer offered me $1,400 and ultimately we settled on $1,450.00.

 

 

[leeg]

That's a nice coin! It is a good date! It has blessing from the sticker company. I just have a feeling that if you had posted that on the BST/MoneyMarketplace etc, you could have done better. I understand you were in a time crunch but I think there were a couple of other quick sale opportunities that were not explored and the dealer took advantage of you.

 

Good luck! I hope you can bounce back from the money crunch quickly.

 

The coin WAS posted on the BST here...

 

brg5658 is correct. I did list this coin on the BST for a week or so. I was just trying to get out of it what I paid into it with no takers.

 

I sent this dealer an email explaining my thoughts around the coin hoping he would give me a fair price like most dealers would do. Here is his reply:

 

Lee,

 

I am sincerely sorry for your personal loss and understand how challenging these times can be.

 

My valuation of that coin or any coin is based on What I believe the market prospects are. The market has spent the year sliding. I simply don't believe I will realize the same amount for it this time around. All dealers and collectors are subject to the fluctuations of the market. The last half of 2014 and the first quarter of 2015 has been a wake up call to a market that basically got stronger for almost ten years. Coins could still keep cheaper before they get more expensive and that continuing momentum keeps asking prices under pressure.

 

I hope this helps to explain my position.

 

Coin Dealer

 

 

 

I will not state who this dealer is.

 

 

 

I think for a coin of this type that 90% buy-back would have been fair.

 

Life is all about learning. I learned something today. Even though it hurt financially, it's a life lesson. Once you stop learning you stop living.

 

 

 

Enjoy your coins!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Any reputable dealer who believes in his/her customers and believes in his/her coins he/she sells starts at 90% buy back and higher if the value has risen since purchase. Does not matter if the coin was bought yesterday or 10 years ago. These are the dealers I go back to because I know they have my back.

 

Best, HT

 

I hear you there.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

[coinman_23885]

I would say the high range would be 60-70% of what the dealer thinks he can move it for in a reasonable period of time. Coins are a retail hobby business. The low range may be 50-60% on slower moving material. Some stuff like cupro nickel mods I would not pay above 40% of say CW Trends for if even that.

 

The values in Coin World Trends are notoriously inflated, and it is pretty much irrelevant in today's market. To say that you would not pay above 40% of CW Trends doesn't say much if the valuation is significantly skewed as it often is. For example, if the valuation is close to double what the pieces actually are selling for at auction (the true fair market value), then your offer is closer to 80% of FMV. That's why blind reliance on guides like Trends with predetermined percentages and multipliers strikes me as very dangerous.

 

The most I would offer on a numismatic coin is 70% of what I think I can price it at / sell it for. This equates to a 30% margin which is around what it takes to stay in the business. At a minimum I price coins at cost + 40%. Variable selling expense is 15% of sales alone. The balance is for my fixed costs and commission.

 

What do you sell? For common coins and coins that will languish in inventory, I can certainly see this or less. With high end, quality coins; however, I feel that the margin is often much tighter with larger dealers, which is fair given that the items are much more liquid. I just purchased a coin from Legend with a mark-up of about 5%. Ten to 15 or 20% seems more reasonable for the higher end of the market.

 

If you were not happy with the dealers offer its your responsibility to shop the coin around. You could have pursued selling it on ebay. Or you could have taken it to a show and shopped it around the bourse...

 

Its not the dealers fault you were forced to liquidate the coin or his responsibility you make money on the deal. It does not appear to me you should be buying big ticket numismatic material like that.

 

No, the dealer is not obligated to pay him anything, and he can make an offer as low as he wishes (if he makes one at all). With this said, it seems to me that customer loyalty would mean a lot in this business. There are several dealers like Legend, Doug Winter, and formerly Mark Feld that have/had very strong customer bases. In many cases, they could place coins immediately or within a short period of time after listing them. This is an extremely useful and powerful marketing tool. Being stingy with your customers can easily backfire. To be clear, I still do not have enough facts from this case to determine if this was the case here; the dealer's email does not necessarily sound unreasonable.

 

I am also curious as to what you meant by the last sentence of the quoted passage.

 

Its easier to buy coins than sell them. I have moved coins in as little as 2 weeks and had others sit in inventory for years. Coins can be a long term hold and there is no guarantee they will make money. One should get some experience selling coins before putting substantial money into them.

 

If you have a significant portion of your inventory sitting for years, you are either buying dreck or you should reconsider your pricing structure. One of the dealers quoted as making fair offers, Mark Feld, could easily move his inventory. Within minutes of posting his newest inventory list, orders would pour in. In two weeks, he would usually sell 90+% of his stuff. Again, I think customer loyalty means a lot. Mark was also very fair with his mark-ups, and I sincerely doubt that he was hurting for money, having been doing this full time since the 1970s.

 

[Houston Investor]

I think $1450 for that coin in a wholesale transaction is very generous. As described above I don't see it more than $1250 wholesale / $1600 retail.

[coinman_23885]

In researching this coins market value and auction history I would say $1600 Sell and around $1250 wholesale (based on Auction median price). So if you paid more than $1600 for it looks like you were buried in it to begin with. And I have found this can be par for the course a lot of times, people become passionate about owning a coin. However the reality of this will sink in if forced to sell early on. Further more in looking at its photo I consider it a B coin (A, B, C) not an A coin. I consider it solid quality, not premium quality. In addition, with the market being in the tank like it has, I would be hard pressed to offer anywhere near $1250 for it. If I shopped it around the bourse at a show today (forced to sell) I would be doing good to get $1000 for it IMO.

 

It looks like you edited your post. If you think that a $1000 offer on a CAC stickered coin worth $1600 (by your valuation) is good, then I question your marketing strategy. He could have easily sold this to CAC with a simple phone call and probably would have done much better than that!

[Nutmeg Coin]

Heritage has this pricing information on the coin:

 

Price Guide*

Grade Coin World

(Coin Values) Numismedia

Retail Numismedia

Wholesale Heritage Value

Index NGC

Price Guide NGC+ PCGS

Price Guide PCGS+ CCE SS/SU

30 --- $1,314 $1,095 $950-$1,150 --- --- $1,225 --- $575/$475

35 --- $1,484 $1,237 $1,100-$1,350 --- --- $1,550 --- $670/$630

40 --- $1,800 $1,500 $1,350-$1,650 --- --- $2,200 --- $1,085/$970

http://coins.ha.com/itm/large-cents/1812-1c-large-date-vf35-pcgs-pcgs-population-12-34-ngc-census-0-0-numismedia-wsl-price-for-problem-free-ngc-pcgs/a/1201-8078.s

 

So to pay $2000 originally on the coin was a major rip-off.

[Mark T]

I had an emergency that required me to sell a coin back to the coin dealer I bought it from. I didn't feel he gave me a fair shake on the coin. Cost me over 2K.

 

Mark Feld was always fair on his buy-back prices.

 

What do feel is a fair percentage when selling back to the coin dealer of purchase?

 

TIA.

 

 

Maybe I am missing something , how did you lose 2 K on a coin with a $1500 retail that were selling for on average around $1,250 for the last few years ?? Yes you should have called CAC , just a guess but you probably would have been offered at least $ 1,000 for the coin. I sold a bunch of CAC coins last year to CAC , the prices offered were fantastic .

 

I paid a little over 2K for the coin and this coin dealer offered me $1,400 and ultimately we settled on $1,450.00.

 

 

$1,450 for the coin even with the CAC sticker is a good price, you paid a bit too much for it 2 years ago. I think the dealer was actually being more than fair with you. Now that I know the price the dealer offered , you would have probably received around the same offer from CAC .

 

 

 

 

 

[Nutmeg Coin]

The sobering fact here is that the "dealer" charged an unreasonable amount for the coin previously, there is no technical analysis that supports that the coin was worth over $2000. I don't care who the seller is, their name and supposed "reputation" for being an expert is not worth much of a premium. And customers who wise up to the fact that they have been ripped off have lots of resources at their disposal on various online review sites to notify others of their experiences.

 

I know a dealer who set up a shop in NY last year and bragged about getting well over $2000 for a coin he spent $1300 for that was worth $1500 on a good day. A guy he described as wealthy came in and was convinced that it was worth the $2200 he sold it for. People are not stupid and once they do research they will find they have been swindled and will never want to do business with them again, and probably tell others that they guy is a shady operator.

 

I called the big shot dealer I mentioned earlier years ago after not getting any buyback satisfaction on a legitimately rare and desirable coin for a quote on what he would pay. Another phone call and I had an offer of 50% more from another dealer!

 

In the age of universally available pricing information the steep mark-up sellers cannot run away from reality for long.

 

 

[coinman_23885]

The sobering fact here is that the "dealer" charged an unreasonable amount for the coin previously, there is no technical analysis that supports that the coin was worth over $2000. I don't care who the seller is, their name and supposed "reputation" for being an expert is not worth much of a premium. And customers who wise up to the fact that they have been ripped off have lots of resources at their disposal on various online review sites to notify others of their experiences.

 

Coin pricing can be very subjective and sometimes there are enormous variations in pricing within a grading level. He agreed to the price; case closed. People who contractually agree to things and then whine about them later on online review websites deserve what they get.

[Nutmeg Coin]

"Coin pricing can be very subjective and sometimes there are enormous variations in pricing within a grading level."

 

There are elements of subjectivity skewed by unscrupulous dealers fishing for customers who will pay more based on a description, the excitement of something "special" that is really not that rare based on auction records over years. Those who make this argument may have their own skeletons in the closet of people who bought from them and paid too much and realized the fact later when they had no legal recourse. Such sellers are rip-off artists or you can get out a thesaurus and look up the word "unethical" or "over-priced" for how historically people have perceived such practices.

 

"He agreed to the price; case closed. People who contractually agree to things and then whine about them later on online review websites deserve what they get."

 

Twist the transaction how you want; the consequences to the field of numismatics is that less and less real money will be entering this field as a result of sellers who over-price their material. There are dozens of other hobbies less rife with rip-off artists. And the fact that the "dealer" said that the coin's valuation had dropped based on his deception is well-deserving of an online review site comment of which there are dozens so that "ABC Coin Service" when googled will turn up customer comments.

[Fiddlehead]

 

Coin pricing can be very subjective and sometimes there are enormous variations in pricing within a grading level. He agreed to the price; case closed. People who contractually agree to things and then whine about them later on online review websites deserve what they get.

 

Hmm - yeah, and dealers or ebay sellers or whomever who are able to sell items occassionally at exorbitant prices by taking advantage of an inexperienced buyer - or through deception - also deserve what they get. Bad feedback and warnings to avoid them. The feedback system is pretty good. A misplaced or misunderstood transaction that results in an occasional bad review will be outweighed by good feedback and reviews. For me that system really works.

 

DUK

[coinman_23885]

 

Coin pricing can be very subjective and sometimes there are enormous variations in pricing within a grading level. He agreed to the price; case closed. People who contractually agree to things and then whine about them later on online review websites deserve what they get.

 

Hmm - yeah, and dealers or ebay sellers or whomever who are able to sell items occassionally at exorbitant prices by taking advantage of an inexperienced buyer - or through deception - also deserve what they get. Bad feedback and warnings to avoid them. The feedback system is pretty good. A misplaced or misunderstood transaction that results in an occasional bad review will be outweighed by good feedback and reviews. For me that system really works.

 

DUK

 

There was no deception. Deception would change things entirely.

[coinman_23885]

"Coin pricing can be very subjective and sometimes there are enormous variations in pricing within a grading level."

 

There are elements of subjectivity skewed by unscrupulous dealers fishing for customers who will pay more based on a description, the excitement of something "special" that is really not that rare based on auction records over years. Those who make this argument may have their own skeletons in the closet of people who bought from them and paid too much and realized the fact later when they had no legal recourse. Such sellers are rip-off artists or you can get out a thesaurus and look up the word "unethical" or "over-priced" for how historically people have perceived such practices.

 

"He agreed to the price; case closed. People who contractually agree to things and then whine about them later on online review websites deserve what they get."

 

Twist the transaction how you want; the consequences to the field of numismatics is that less and less real money will be entering this field as a result of sellers who over-price their material. There are dozens of other hobbies less rife with rip-off artists. And the fact that the "dealer" said that the coin's valuation had dropped based on his deception is well-deserving of an online review site comment of which there are dozens so that "ABC Coin Service" when googled will turn up customer comments.

 

 

Not everyone works on a 10% margin, and in the absence of fraud/deception, it is a free market and there is no one twisting the buyer's arm and making him or her purchase it. There are coins that are worth more than the guides and auction records based on quality. And this subjective determination is one for both the buyer and seller to make. Those who agree to it should accept the consequences and stop whining (and that is NOT targeted to the OP). Making potentially libelous remarks on a website will do nothing but open you up to a lawsuit (and yes business do read those reviews and have sued in the past; I don't blame them either).

[bochiman]

I'm so glad that coins are such commodities that all of them, regardless of their look/appeal, will sell for the same amount as previous examples.

 

There is NO WAY that someone should pay $2000 for a coin when "comparables" have sold for hundreds less.

 

We must all have seen each coin, in hand, as well, to make that conclusion. The surfaces must all have been the same, the color must have been the same, etc.

 

Yeah, LeeG is a real novice when it comes to copper coins. That's it. He is new to numismatics as well.

 

Now that my sarcasm is played out......anyone with real knowledge know, and care to share, how much the market for that type of coin may have really dropped since the purchase time period mentioned? The dealer cited that as the reason for the lowball (imho).

 

Could just as easily be a case of the dealer pricing a nice coin above market value, due to niceness, and LeeG purchased it. It may well have been marked up above what it really should have (everyone will have a different definition obviously) and LeeG purchased it.

On buyback, dealer felt that he didn't have another person waiting for that type of coin at the price he could rip them off...errr.....sell to....hence his much lower value.

What will be interesting, and only LeeG will be able to see this, possibly, since he isn't mentioning who the dealer is, is what the dealer will be pricing the coin at (LeeG also knows the cert# which enables some tracking if publicly sold).

 

 

Like I said, everyone has their own opinion.....without knowing the actual decline, if any, in the market, I don't know if the reason given is that valid. Also depends on the dealer's margins, etc. On that point, I know I will happily avoid dealers like seller11 as I, personally, believe that margins he speaks of, for an active dealer, are way too high and maybe a few filet mignon and lobster dinners at major coin shows should be cut out

 

A dealer on the PCGS boards just mentioned that he is moving states due to potential taxing and stated his net profit on coin sales were 6.2%. I believe the dealer to be a very fair dealer (he is somewhat well known as well, so I am not just basing that on his stated number).

I doubt he is making 40% margins before expenses (I could be wrong) but he is still able to make a go of it.

 

 

[Houston Investor]

I have seen a number of people on the bourse be buried in a coin and when the reality hits of what they can really get for it (considerably less than they paid) they are in a state of denial. Perhaps they made a bad business decision, sold too soon, or were whipsawed by a market cycle.

 

We have more than one numismatic market - rare expensive coins, USM products (check their sales volume, its staggering), collector coins both slabbed and raw, and bullion coins. In addition there is currency, both US (with its sub markets: large size type, small size, NBN, MPC, CSA, Obsoletes, etc) and World (which is seeing a lot of interest). Many collectors I have run into are collecting coins and currency by their birthdate, special event dates in their life, etc. I myself have been chasing material by my date of birth, marriage, under grad degree, grad degree, birthdate of kids, etc, finding some fascinating items and great buys. One of my first major clients collected coins dated by the birth year of his son both World and US.

 

In the final analysis (as an old numismatic mentor told me) it all adds up and I certainly concur as diversified as I am my inventory I may have significant concentration in some segments but not just one.

 

 

 

 

[Walkerfan]

I think that 76% buyback is AWFUL and dealers have been using that 'the market is down' line for decades----it is just an excuse to screw their customers.

 

Five or six years ago----I bought a coin for GS BID and thought that I was safe. Dealer told me that he was so confident in the coin that he'd buy it back at 97%. When I tried to upgrade and sell it back to him at 93%, he agreed and then, after I mailed it to him, he declined and only offered me 89%. The SOB had me on the hook, b/c I needed the cash just like leeg. Although you may think that 89% was a decent buyback, it was an expensive key and I lost a substantial amount of money. Lesson learned. I am no longer impulsive and hasty and, when I do pay up----I intend to hold for the long term. Also, I trust NOBODY, now, and it was a matter of principle, as people should honor their word.

 

My thoughts on leeg's matter:

 

1. Although the early copper market may appear stronger than guides suggest; I still think that you originally overpaid just a bit.

 

2. This dealer is a liar and I wouldn't deal with him, anymore, unless he has something extraordinary, as he was not fair with you at 76%.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Some stores have different strategies. I work for a discount furniture outlet and at first I did not understand the higher priced stores. But you pay a bit for atmosphere and their ability to just take care of you. For instance, if I make a $ ordering you a sofa I just don't have the profit in it for extra deliveries or to be as picky as I would like. Pay me $$$ and I can do expedite shipping or make it flawless.

 

Sometimes it just is not that. Consider the big furniture stores in town. They pay $$$$$$ for advertising campaigns and prime real estate. They also get discounts on their products thanks to volume. To cover the advertising they make a higher mark up percentage.

 

Now "low class" Targets and Walmarts go for volume to make their money to pay for their $$$$$$ advertising. You just don't get treated the same there. Do we want to stand in line at the coin store Target to buy our coin from a minimum wage kid who knows nothing about coins?

 

Ebay with its nationwide auctions is just an oddball. You pay for it by buying coins based on pictures I suppose.

 

Oh well. I don't know if I fault the dealer but I don't find myself loving him either. Who knows, maybe his teenager just wrecked the comlany truck.

[leeg]

Thanks all for your input on this.

 

 

 

The truth is that I got a phone call about the coin with an offer of $1,400. I told the customer service person that my mother had passed away and that I needed $1,589 to cover the cremation expenses so I could bring my Mother back home.

 

The customer service person talked to this coin dealer and the best he could do was $1,450.

 

Of course I had to accept the offer because I am not a rich man and the priority was to bring my mother home.

 

I probably might have over paid for the coin but it is the rarer variety and a very tough series to find nice and I did not expect to sell it so soon.

 

Life goes on.

 

[wdrob]

 

The truth is that I got a phone call about the coin with an offer of $1,400. I told the customer service person that my mother had passed away and that I needed $1,589 to cover the cremation expenses so I could bring my Mother back home.

 

The customer service person talked to this coin dealer and the best he could do was $1,450.

 

Of course I had to accept the offer because I am not a rich man and the priority was to bring my mother home.

 

This right there would be enough for me to never deal with that person ever again. I want to make two observations and won't comment on this again.

 

1.) Regardless of what you paid for the coin to begin with, I would seriously doubt any coin dealer, on a regular basis, receives calls where a person opens up with them and tells them that they are in that kind of a bind. This tells me that either that dealer thinks you are a liar and were willing to compromise your integrity to reduce your loss on the coin a measly $189.00 or they have no compassion at all and the all mighty dollar is worth more than taking a small risk and reaching out to help someone.

 

There is absolutely no reason that dealer could not have said to you; "You know, due to the circumstances I want to help and the best I can do is take the coin back for the money you need and when you get back in a better position you can buy it back." -- But no, $189.00 was the breaking point between compassion and the bottom line. I wish I knew who that was but I understand that I probably never will.

 

2.) Pride - Crowdfunding can do wonders but one has to swallow their pride and that is hard to do, for me or anyone. So hard that very seldom will anyone ask for the help of others. But apparently (I can't imagine that you did and anyone turned you down) your pride caused you to not reach out to someone here privately and ask if they were willing to hold the coin for collateral. Now it is out in the open regardless of your initial apprehension, you no longer have the coin or the option to get it back for the principal, and someone like me is left scratching their head and wondering "Why could he have not sent me or someone else a PM?"

 

It truly does pain me to know all that which transpired and to think it was only like salt in a already open would. Once again Lee I am sorry to hear of the passing of your Mother and I am left to deal with my own personal questions.

 

Being one one the most disliked people on this forum, even I have enough "friends" that if I had known I could have reached out to them and in a matter of a couple hours, had $1,500.00 in your account just by asking them to help by throwing in a couple Benjamins. Am I that unapproachable? I guess I have some soul searching to do.

 

 

 

[Nutmeg Coin]

There are some extremely generous people in numismatics. If I were you I would have contacted the ANA if you are a member to see what they would have suggested. Surely there are plenty of people who would have helped pay that emergency fee, with some evidence, which is so fundamental to human reality, to not do so would be inhuman.

 

I know one Coin World dealer now gone who literally beggared himself helping people in NYC, a city of endless need. His brother also a coin dealer was upset at how Jack was "undermining" the business. There are lots of social resources also available to pitch in with vital human needs. My condolences for your painful loss.

[MikeKing]

Lee, I'm sorry to hear of your personal loss.

 

 

 

[telephoto1-migration]

OP: There is no standard, one size fits all percentage. Read orifdoc's answer.

 

Also, to the poster expecting 100% back for 30 days...that is ridiculous for any item that has a volatile market. Why would a dealer let someone tie up their inventory and basically use them as a free approval service for a month so the buyer can just return the coin if they can't flip it at a profit or simply get buyer's remorse?

 

Edit to add: leeg, sorry to hear of your loss. Lost my mom three years ago and it seems like yesterday (at times). Were I the dealer involved you'd have certainly been able to cover her expenses and more. There are times when business can and should be set aside to help someone who deserves it.

[leeg]

Sorry, nothing to see here.