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CONFIRMED 1919-P Mercury DDO Discovery!!!
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Started by StrikeOutXXX,

156 posts in this topic

KeyMan64

KeyMan64

Posted
Posted (edited)
Interesting little video about our famous dime here at Coin World:

 

http://www.coinworld.com/videos/2015/march/monday-morning-brief-mar-9-2015.html]http://www.coinworld.com/videos/2015/march/monday-morning-brief-mar-9-2015.html]http://www.coinworld.com/videos/2015/march/monday-morning-brief-mar-9-2015.html

 

The first step Mr. Gibbs gives to this being a success is "A lot of 'em are gonna have to be found" !!!

So I am sending lucky vibes to everyone who is actively searching!

 

Statements that I DISAGREE with in the video:

The series isn't widely known for a lot of die varieties.

- Has he ever looked at a Cherrpickers' Guide?

- Does he know who Bill Fivaz, JT Stanton, Kevin Flynn or John Wexler are? Has he ever explored CONECA's site? Has he ever viewed nice large high res photos of the varieties blessed by the TPGs in their registries. hm

 

Then he tries to clarify his statement with the 1942/1 and 1942/1-D. Okay fine, I see what he is doing here, he should have originally said MAJOR REDBOOK varieties that bring a LOT of MONEY. But even the REDBOOK mentions a few that have large and small mintmarks and then there is the 1945 micro s.

 

Then he says there are a "few minor ones."

I am now convinced this guy does not know what he is talking about. There are soooo many accepted/blessed somewhat minor ones that is difficult to even keep up. There are well over 100, granted even I will declare many of them minor. I consider there to be close to 40+ that are SIGNIFICANT Ugh.

 

Then he says "a lot have to be found." I again disagree. 5-10 found will be enough. If you somehow think that only two being known will prevent interest in the coin, that just seems crazy to me. If a dozen plus are found, it will be easier for a market/ or price guide listings to happen but he certainly did not go there with that. I sold many varieties that have gone for over $1,000...that is more money than a 1942/1 in EF by the way. I have sold others for over $2K....that is more money than a 1942/1 in AU58! I think he needs to be better educated on what might be minor and major and how these markets work.

 

It is a bit annoying to me when possibly well known generalists try to share their knowledge in a place that just doesn't seem right. I am so happy that this coin has come to light and I am happy that it has gotten a lot of mainstream coin attention but some of this attention is dumbing down the general coin market.

 

I am one of the few that know Mercury Dime varieties AND their markets the best. I have cherrypicked the best, made tons of TOP POPS and SOLD them, some at auctions where I started the bidding at $1. None of the other authors/specialists have done this. NONE! I am just a crazed internet monkey I guess....since I have not written a book yet. Although, I have talked about writing a book that CORRECTS all of the errors that have been published about Mercury Dime varieties...I just have not had the energy to do it. /rant

 

Well, Mr. Gibbs reached out to me via PM to discuss the points I raised. This surprised me for sure but it was a good surprise. I am so thankful that he reached out and gave me a little more background on his statements. He of course was very polite and professional.

 

My critique of the video may have been a little harsh based on something that I CLEARLY OVERLOOKED. HIS AUDIENCE!! I did not take this into consideration when I made these comments. These videos are kept short for the viewer so that limits information to being a bit more broad which I also did not take into consideration. Based on my interpretation of what he told me, the intended audience is largely the general public that does a little collecting and probably owns a Red Book but not much beyond that. That is why he stuck to the Redbook varieties that most of his audience would be familiar with. It still would have been nice to at least say there are MANY varieties for the series but only a couple that are recognized by Redbook. That might have been more accurate. Anyway, the video is not intended for the crazy internet monkey discussion board Mercury Dime Specialists that can be a bit over the top at times... like me. Mr. Gibbs is certainly much more qualified than I alluded to. I apologize, plain and simple.

 

As for the number of examples that HAVE TO BE FOUND etc...I still disagree. Something I said to him went as follows:

 

Think about the chicken/egg problem. Which came first? If the 1919 DDO is listed in the Redbook (and other books) with only two known examples then the numismatic community might find a lot more, maybe 30, maybe more? If it is not listed then maybe it takes 10-15 years for a dozen to be found. Since the coin is not listed for the 15 years then a precedent has been set not to list it, so why list it then? If it is significant, it should be listed, in my opinion of course. Granted, the editors and contributors/specialists for each series need to consider their space limitations and determine which are significant "enough" to include. I think they can do a better job. My criticism of certain publications has been that the varieties that are SIGNIFICANT need to be listed. Specialist publications can certainly go further but educational guides should do a bit better.

Edited by KeyMan64
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cpm9ball

cpm9ball

Posted
Posted
Clarity begins at home?

 

Another weekend gone by with no new finds.

 

Tom, I hope you aren't putting notches on the edge of your dining room table.

 

Chris

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KeyMan64

KeyMan64

Posted
Posted (edited)

Here are the pics for the 3rd Example...I think VG8 is accurate and MA Problem Free.

Not my coin. The pics were sent to me by the owner.

 

1919_DDO_Example3_1.jpg

 

1919_DDO_Example3_2.jpg

 

1919_DDO_Example3_3.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by KeyMan64
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StrikeOutXXX

StrikeOutXXX

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Posted (edited)

Just an update - a 4th example has been found by a collector at a small show in Portland, Oregon. Got quite a nice cherrypick out of a dealer's folders.

 

Pics are below. Take note of the die crack on the Obverse, and Reverse. I believe this will be a later die state, perhaps confirming the dies were not pulled early due to discovery of the DDO, but may have had a chance to have a normal production run.

 

That puts the known population at:

 

1) ANACS VF-20 - Discovery Coin (Mine)

2) XF Details? - John Hodson's Confirmation piece - still at NGC for Conservation

3) PCGS VG-8 (Now off to ANACS to get the attribution)

4) VF/XF - This new example.

 

image.jpg1_zpszb1kg2ft.jpg

image.jpg2_zps7aiemt7p.jpg

image.jpg1_zpsssfjoldk.jpg

Edited by StrikeOutXXX
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t2000

t2000

Posted
Posted

I got two of these, both circulated, ungraded, but likely F-12 or close to it. Had them for decades.

 

What impact would this find have on their worth, worth a lot more to collectors now, but what impact would this find have on their Red Book value? anyone want to hazard a guess?

 

I am a numismaphile wetnose, I do not want to even try to answer this question. I am just happy I have two humdrum coins that are no longer humdrum.

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KeyMan64

KeyMan64

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Posted
I got two of these, both circulated, ungraded, but likely F-12 or close to it. Had them for decades.

 

What impact would this find have on their worth, worth a lot more to collectors now, but what impact would this find have on their Red Book value? anyone want to hazard a guess?

 

I am a numismaphile wetnose, I do not want to even try to answer this question. I am just happy I have two humdrum coins that are no longer humdrum.

Well, the word is just getting out so it is hard to say. It is also unclear if the TPGs will add this to the Merc to the Registry with MAJOR Varieties or not. That would help the value. If you have two of them then that gets the known population to 9. Any way for you to get some photos posted, either by yourself or a friend that can help? Thanks for posting!
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StrikeOutXXX

StrikeOutXXX

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I got two of these, both circulated, ungraded, but likely F-12 or close to it. Had them for decades.

 

What impact would this find have on their worth, worth a lot more to collectors now, but what impact would this find have on their Red Book value? anyone want to hazard a guess?

 

I am a numismaphile wetnose, I do not want to even try to answer this question. I am just happy I have two humdrum coins that are no longer humdrum.

 

Congrats!

 

Pictures would be great. As Keyman said, yours would be #8 & #9.

 

These will be in the next Cherrypicker's Guide, probably be in the next Redbook, and likely added to the registries.

 

Nobody knows value-wise where these will fall, but... there will be quite a nice multiplier of a normal Fine 1919 Merc 8-) I think the first one will be selling in the next few weeks, so we should get our first idea of value before too long.

 

Here are the known ones (at least to me) I've been keeping track of ATS:

 

1) ANACS VF20 - Discovery piece (StrikeOutXXX / Jeff Sam)

2) XF Details/Cleaned? - Confirmation piece - Own inventory - John Hodson

3) PCGS VG-8 then ANACS VG-8, heading back to PCGS for Attribution - Bulk over the counter B&M Purchase (KearneyCC / Bjorn Bergstrom)

4) High VF? - Raw small show Portland, OR (Dealer folder unattributed) - jtlee321/Justin

5) NGC - Good - Owner Unknown

6) NGC - Good - Owner Unknown

7) NGC - Good - Owner Unknown

8) Fine - T2000 (NGC Forums)

9) Fine - T2000 (NGC Forums)

10) GET TO CHERRYPICKING!!!

11)

12)

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CaptHenway

CaptHenway

Posted
Posted
I got two of these, both circulated, ungraded, but likely F-12 or close to it. Had them for decades.

 

What impact would this find have on their worth, worth a lot more to collectors now, but what impact would this find have on their Red Book value? anyone want to hazard a guess?

 

I am a numismaphile wetnose, I do not want to even try to answer this question. I am just happy I have two humdrum coins that are no longer humdrum.

 

Do you have pictures so that we can confirm the specimens?

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jtlee321

jtlee321

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Posted

I'm starting to doubt the claim now. He posts that he has 2 and then disappears? If you truly have them and cannot take any photos right away, at least state that you will when you can. But silence does not help the case.

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StrikeOutXXX

StrikeOutXXX

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I'm starting to doubt the claim now. He posts that he has 2 and then disappears? If you truly have them and cannot take any photos right away, at least state that you will when you can. But silence does not help the case.

 

I'd like to see photos too. If he doesn't post some soon, I'll take those 2 off the unofficial census for now - Back when the Coin World article hit - on their Facebook there were a few false claims there, so it's happened before. We'll see.

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RWB

RWB

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Posted

Heck, I founded 2 1919 proofs of this DDO! Yep - got 'em from that feller what has them 1917 proofs and an 1946/1929 dime overdate. (His also got a 1917 $20 but him's not talkin' much abo't that 'un.)

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jtlee321

jtlee321

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Posted

Well it looks like the population is still at 7. That other guy never even popped up to try and defend his claim. Now to stand by and see when the first one hits the auction blocks.

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jtlee321

jtlee321

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Posted

I had sent my dime off to Dr. James Wiles for examination and photographing for the CONECA files. He then forwarded it on to ANACS for grading and certification with the attribution. I got a call from ANACS today. They have graded it and are shipping it back to me. The final grade came in at EF-40 straight graded. I believe that makes mine the highest grade known as of right now. I'm so happy!!

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StrikeOutXXX

StrikeOutXXX

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From what Jeff has told me, it is still in conservation. So still waiting on the official grade.

 

Not sure if you caught the post ATS, but the #2 piece is:

 

NCS AU Details - Environmental Problems

 

We're still at the 7 reported AND confirmed.

 

1) ANACS VF-20 - Discovery piece (StrikeOutXXX / Jeff Sam)

2) NCS AU Details - Environmental Problems - Confirmation piece - Own inventory - John Hodson

3) PCGS VG-8 unattributed, then ANACS VG-8, back to PCGS VG-8 Attributed - Bulk over the counter B&M Purchase (KearneyCC / Bjorn Bergstrom)

4) ANACS EF-40 small show Portland, OR (Dealer folder unattributed) - (jtlee321/Justin)

5) NGC - Good - Owner Unknown

6) NGC - Good - Owner Unknown

7) NGC - Good - Owner Unknown

 

I check NGC/PCGS each day as well as watch the 4 main coin forums that has a thread and eBay. The ANACS population report doesn't break this out on their own any legible way I can tell, so hard to tell if any more are there.

 

I asked Mr. Gibbs who wrote the Coin World article to let me know if he had any reports of others from folks who maybe don't frequent the forums, or maybe don't care to get things graded, and haven't heard anything from him either. Not sure really where else to check to keep an eye on this. keyman64 keeps his ears open too quite a bit as well.

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