Why do some folks get so upset over opinions on coins?

[Mr. Smith Guesser]

I've seen it happen many many times. What's the deal man?

 

I love collecting coins. If it were a source of stress for me, I wouldn't do it. I mean, don't get me wrong. I like debate. In fact, I think debate is important. But I can't think of a time that I've ever been upset or angry over debating coins. Maybe because coins are just a hobby to me and a business to others?

[RWB]

During the past few weeks, the amount of animosity and personal insinuation seems to have increased here, on the PCGS board and elsewhere. Disagreements about various subjects quickly degenerate into name calling and personal attacks with the original subject often pushed aside. Routine corrections and information are taken personally rather than simply as being helpful and informative.

 

Is it time for casual numismatic vacationing and redirection of attention to family, friends and a little more nuanced perspective of living? Hobbies should reduce our stress and tension, not increase it.

 

[Walkerfan]

I haven't really noticed anything out of the ordinary, lately, as there will always be disagreements but I think that taking a break or a 'numismatic vacation' is highly recommended.

 

You should never have to 'kow-tow' to or constantly agree with another person. Some people get offended by every word that comes out of your mouth, while they feel that they can speak about ANYTHING they have a mind to. It does NOT work that way-----friendship is a two-way street and so is mutual respect. If someone repeatedly disrespects me or ignores me----I will not correspond with or interact with that person anymore.

 

I have restructured my collecting goals into a much more casual mode and I am not on a time-table anymore. I have been posting only when I have felt the urge to do so or when it was something that I was highly interested in.

 

My new philosophy and quasi-vacation has brought me new and valuable perspective and much more enjoyment. Also, I agree with a board member (whose name escapes me) who said that 'the pride of ownership far exceeds the long, tiresome hunt.' I can agree with and TOTALLY relate to that. I have felt quite laid back and satisfied, as of late, with the slower tempo of my collecting and new additions.

[DaveG]

When I first got back into coin collecting, I was given this piece of extremely valuable advice:

 

"You can negotiate the price of a coin, but never question the grade a dealer puts on a coin."

 

Even though you might have an honest difference of opinion over a grade (say the coin is a nice XF, but not quite an AU - in your eyes), or you want some education regarding the grading of a particular coin, to question the grade is to question the honesty and intelligence of the seller. It's as if you said to a woman: "your child is ugly."

 

For a lot of people, to tell them that something they believe is true isn't is "arrogant" or "condescending", even if the person telling them is the acknowledged expert in the field, and they get offended and very upset.

 

I try not to get upset when an expert takes the time to tell me something.

[michael]

ttt

 

 

[bochiman]

To the OP....it's usually ego and/or money.

 

For the ego part, there are some who are very good at what they do in numismatics. Experts even. Sought after for their opinions by others. If you question them, they often take offense as "YOU" (generic "you", meaning anyone who is not "them") are NOT the expert.

 

Then there are the "wanna-be" experts. They, too, think they know everything and no one should disagree with them as, if they were really an expert like they think, no one would disagree with them. So, by disagreeing you shine light that they are not the expert they think they are. They usually partake of bullying to show that their way is the only way. You have to think that a certain coin IS a major issue, because they think it is.

 

On the other side, is money. Numismatics isn't really a cheap hobby. Sure, you can collect pocket change and state quarters, but usually that doesn't last long, and people start paying above face/about melt. Once you start with the grading scheme of things, then the expenses increase.

So, by disagreeing on what is popular or where people should spend money, you directly/indirectly hit their pocketbooks. Either they have already spent the money on the coin(s), which may not be worth as much if no longer a hot issue, or they watch the series go down and they had planned on its value being much higher (maybe a dealer who specializes.).

 

I may disagree with folks, but when I do it, I try NOT to change anyone's mind...I do it just from my own viewpoint, and what a particular coin/series means to me.

For instance.....I really dislike barbers, pieces, 3c nickels, and a few others. Doesn't mean they aren't collectible, or that they aren't right for other people. Only that they aren't right for me.

 

On the same token, what I collect is what I collect. If it is "in favor", I end up spending more as others want the same thing. If others think what I collect isn't cool or wanted, then I save money as I will STILL collect them but I will have less competition when I do find them.

 

So, whenever I see arguments about a coin/series, where someone is trying to CONVINCE others of a certain way/thing/fact, when it is usually a place for an opinion, I look and see if it is EGO, or MONEY, or both, that are causing them to act that way. Even if they don't realize it, it does usually come down to one or the other (or both).

 

My on answering your question

 

[Nutmeg Coin]

I don't mind helpful critiques, there is a difference between constructive criticism and the destructive or uninformed types. The big problem with the internet is it is highly impersonal in the types of interactions you get. And since there are big stakes in some cases with people perhaps feeling monetarily threatened, the responses can be quite emotional. If people back up their opinions with facts and reason in a fair-minded way that can really help.

[Mr. Smith Guesser]

"The big problem with the internet is it is highly impersonal in the types of interactions you get."

 

This also seems to be the case when people are driving. I've seen people red in the face yelling at other motorists and wonder would they do that in the other person's face. Probably not.

 

It is an interesting phenomena though. I mean, when posting something online it does feel less like talking to a person and more like talking to a computer...like one of those old text-based games. (ever play Zork?)

[bsshog40]

I pretty much agree also with the responses. I also think that people shouldn't ask for an opinion if they don't want the answer.

Example:

Wife: Does this dress make my butt look fat?

 

People need to learn how to accept criticism if they ask for an opinion. And people need to learn how to give criticism without sarcasm or condemnation!

[Six Mile Rick]

It's COIN COLLECTING at it's FINEST!!

Here you can understand what is right and what is wrong. If you pay attention to the critiques you can get P.O'd or get better at collecting. I am a "MODERN NUT" and I truly enjoy all my great new additions. All the time being told how much a waste of money it is not being such rarities as 1830 to 1899 MS66's. But as I do enjoy my collection I continue and Ignore the remarks that are against modern sets.

A wealthy man can afford a Million Dollar collection and I can afford a $10,000 Collection (in time) . So the set grows with time and I enjoy each new addition!!

 

ENJOY COIN COLLECTING!!

 

Rick

[coinman1794]

 

Then there are the "wanna-be" experts. They, too, think they know everything and no one should disagree with them as, if they were really an expert like they think, no one would disagree with them. So, by disagreeing you shine light that they are not the expert they think they are.

 

True experts often have major disagreements with one another, in addition to the general public. I don't think disagreement is a sign that the hypothesizer is a "wanna-be."

[RWB]

My experience has been that the "experts" often disagree with each other more than the "wanna-be" experts. Further, their disagreements are on a much more detailed level than the “wanna-bes” can fathom. The differences are in the knowledge, experience and application of reason and logic that experts bring to the disagreement. They acknowledge and respect one another because they have developed their knowledge in similar ways. They also understand the limits of data and source material – and usually their own limitations.

[wdrob]

During the past few weeks, the amount of animosity and personal insinuation seems to have increased here, on the PCGS board and elsewhere. Disagreements about various subjects quickly degenerate into name calling and personal attacks with the original subject often pushed aside. Routine corrections and information are taken personally rather than simply as being helpful and informative.

 

 

And I would like to go on the record that I have been less active on these forums during these periods. More now than ever.

[leeg]

See my signature line.

 

 

 

[mikew148]

I've seen it happen many many times. What's the deal man?

 

I love collecting coins. If it were a source of stress for me, I wouldn't do it. I mean, don't get me wrong. I like debate. In fact, I think debate is important. But I can't think of a time that I've ever been upset or angry over debating coins. Maybe because coins are just a hobby to me and a business to others?

 

There are many levels to the coin collecting community.

 

For some it is truly a hobby. They buy what they like and enjoy it for what it is. (I think this is where you are)

 

For others it's an investment. These folks tend to look at what they are purchasing with their focus on the future. ( this is where I am.)

 

Then there are the dealers/experts. These are folks that are consistently good at buying for less than what they sell for. It's their business and if they weren't good at it they'd be selling used cars, vacuum cleaners or some other non "Hobby" related business.

 

I really don't like the term "hobby" when so much money is at stake.

 

I have too much invested in coin collecting to call it a hobby. If I wanted a hobby, I'd spend $15 on a kite, model car or a salamander aquarium .

[rrantique]

See my signature line.

 

 

 

[MarkFeld]

 

People get upset about all sorts of things and the thread title could just as easily apply, even without the words "on coins" being included.

 

They want others to agree with them.

They think they know more than others and they want to convince them of that.

They don't like it when the unknowledgeable are taken advantage of.

They do like it when the unknowledgeable are taken advantage of.

They think their way of doing things is the best or only way.

They are jealous, envious and/or resentful of others.

 

And so on. It's not really about coins.

[bsshog40]

I've seen it happen many many times. What's the deal man?

 

I love collecting coins. If it were a source of stress for me, I wouldn't do it. I mean, don't get me wrong. I like debate. In fact, I think debate is important. But I can't think of a time that I've ever been upset or angry over debating coins. Maybe because coins are just a hobby to me and a business to others?

 

There are many levels to the coin collecting community.

 

For some it is truly a hobby. They buy what they like and enjoy it for what it is. (I think this is where you are)

 

For others it's an investment. These folks tend to look at what they are purchasing with their focus on the future. ( this is where I am.)

 

Then there are the dealers/experts. These are folks that are consistently good at buying for less than what they sell for. It's their business and if they weren't good at it they'd be selling used cars, vacuum cleaners or some other non "Hobby" related business.

 

I really don't like the term "hobby" when so much money is at stake.

 

I have too much invested in coin collecting to call it a hobby. If I wanted a hobby, I'd spend $15 on a kite, model car or a salamander aquarium .

There are many hobbies out there other than low priced kites or model cars. There are a lot of antique car restorers that spend a lot of money to restore cars that may never sell for as much invested but to them they will call it their hobby. A hobby isn't determined by how much you spend on something, it's how much enjoyment and pleasure you get out of it. I don't mind looking at my collection as partly an investment, but I could never determine my future with it.

[mikew148]

I've seen it happen many many times. What's the deal man?

 

I love collecting coins. If it were a source of stress for me, I wouldn't do it. I mean, don't get me wrong. I like debate. In fact, I think debate is important. But I can't think of a time that I've ever been upset or angry over debating coins. Maybe because coins are just a hobby to me and a business to others?

 

There are many levels to the coin collecting community.

 

For some it is truly a hobby. They buy what they like and enjoy it for what it is. (I think this is where you are)

 

For others it's an investment. These folks tend to look at what they are purchasing with their focus on the future. ( this is where I am.)

 

Then there are the dealers/experts. These are folks that are consistently good at buying for less than what they sell for. It's their business and if they weren't good at it they'd be selling used cars, vacuum cleaners or some other non "Hobby" related business.

 

I really don't like the term "hobby" when so much money is at stake.

 

I have too much invested in coin collecting to call it a hobby. If I wanted a hobby, I'd spend $15 on a kite, model car or a salamander aquarium .

There are many hobbies out there other than low priced kites or model cars. There are a lot of antique car restorers that spend a lot of money to restore cars that may never sell for as much invested but to them they will call it their hobby. A hobby isn't determined by how much you spend on something, it's how much enjoyment and pleasure you get out of it. I don't mind looking at my collection as partly an investment, but I could never determine my future with it.

 

I hear what you're saying. My oldest son and I have been restoring a 68 Mustang and in the process have met many guys, with beautiful cars, that will never pull the money out that they put in. Most of them seem fine with it and really enjoy it as a hobby.

 

Having said that, I couldn't do it that way.

 

Whether it be cars, coins, boats or even houses, I'm always looking at the investment potential. To me it's the frugal thing to do.

 

As far as looking to the future - I was referring to the evaluation process of a potential coin purchase. How much do I have to pay and is it likely to hold that value or hopefully increase in value as time goes by.

 

I started out buying from the TV coin shows, as many of us did, and back then it was strictly a hobby for me. Hell, I didn't even know what a gray sheet was back then

 

Now I take the time to really evaluate coins before pulling the trigger. I know what I like and I've studied those coins enough that I feel confident in what I'm "investing" in.

[bsshog40]

I've seen it happen many many times. What's the deal man?

 

I love collecting coins. If it were a source of stress for me, I wouldn't do it. I mean, don't get me wrong. I like debate. In fact, I think debate is important. But I can't think of a time that I've ever been upset or angry over debating coins. Maybe because coins are just a hobby to me and a business to others?

 

There are many levels to the coin collecting community.

 

For some it is truly a hobby. They buy what they like and enjoy it for what it is. (I think this is where you are)

 

For others it's an investment. These folks tend to look at what they are purchasing with their focus on the future. ( this is where I am.)

 

Then there are the dealers/experts. These are folks that are consistently good at buying for less than what they sell for. It's their business and if they weren't good at it they'd be selling used cars, vacuum cleaners or some other non "Hobby" related business.

 

I really don't like the term "hobby" when so much money is at stake.

 

I have too much invested in coin collecting to call it a hobby. If I wanted a hobby, I'd spend $15 on a kite, model car or a salamander aquarium .

There are many hobbies out there other than low priced kites or model cars. There are a lot of antique car restorers that spend a lot of money to restore cars that may never sell for as much invested but to them they will call it their hobby. A hobby isn't determined by how much you spend on something, it's how much enjoyment and pleasure you get out of it. I don't mind looking at my collection as partly an investment, but I could never determine my future with it.

 

I hear what you're saying. My oldest son and I have been restoring a 68 Mustang and in the process have met many guys, with beautiful cars, that will never pull the money out that they put in. Most of them seem fine with it and really enjoy it as a hobby.

 

Having said that, I couldn't do it that way.

 

Whether it be cars, coins, boats or even houses, I'm always looking at the investment potential. To me it's the frugal thing to do.

 

As far as looking to the future - I was referring to the evaluation process of a potential coin purchase. How much do I have to pay and is it likely to hold that value or hopefully increase in value as time goes by.

 

I started out buying from the TV coin shows, as many of us did, and back then it was strictly a hobby for me. Hell, I didn't even know what a gray sheet was back then

 

Now I take the time to really evaluate coins before pulling the trigger. I know what I like and I've studied those coins enough that I feel confident in what I'm "investing" in.

That mustang sounds like a great father and son hobby! Fun too!

[mikew148]

I've seen it happen many many times. What's the deal man?

 

I love collecting coins. If it were a source of stress for me, I wouldn't do it. I mean, don't get me wrong. I like debate. In fact, I think debate is important. But I can't think of a time that I've ever been upset or angry over debating coins. Maybe because coins are just a hobby to me and a business to others?

 

There are many levels to the coin collecting community.

 

For some it is truly a hobby. They buy what they like and enjoy it for what it is. (I think this is where you are)

 

For others it's an investment. These folks tend to look at what they are purchasing with their focus on the future. ( this is where I am.)

 

Then there are the dealers/experts. These are folks that are consistently good at buying for less than what they sell for. It's their business and if they weren't good at it they'd be selling used cars, vacuum cleaners or some other non "Hobby" related business.

 

I really don't like the term "hobby" when so much money is at stake.

 

I have too much invested in coin collecting to call it a hobby. If I wanted a hobby, I'd spend $15 on a kite, model car or a salamander aquarium .

There are many hobbies out there other than low priced kites or model cars. There are a lot of antique car restorers that spend a lot of money to restore cars that may never sell for as much invested but to them they will call it their hobby. A hobby isn't determined by how much you spend on something, it's how much enjoyment and pleasure you get out of it. I don't mind looking at my collection as partly an investment, but I could never determine my future with it.

 

I hear what you're saying. My oldest son and I have been restoring a 68 Mustang and in the process have met many guys, with beautiful cars, that will never pull the money out that they put in. Most of them seem fine with it and really enjoy it as a hobby.

 

Having said that, I couldn't do it that way.

 

Whether it be cars, coins, boats or even houses, I'm always looking at the investment potential. To me it's the frugal thing to do.

 

As far as looking to the future - I was referring to the evaluation process of a potential coin purchase. How much do I have to pay and is it likely to hold that value or hopefully increase in value as time goes by.

 

I started out buying from the TV coin shows, as many of us did, and back then it was strictly a hobby for me. Hell, I didn't even know what a gray sheet was back then

 

Now I take the time to really evaluate coins before pulling the trigger. I know what I like and I've studied those coins enough that I feel confident in what I'm "investing" in.

That mustang sounds like a great father and son hobby! Fun too!

 

He loves that car and I love the time spent with him.

 

It's a daily driver and we're being mindful of the money spent and what the potential sale price would be - although I doubt he'll ever sell it.

 

He's in college studying to be a mechanic so again, it could be looked at as a hobby but having changed out everything from the engine to the retro stereo - it's an investment in him and what he wants to do for a living.

 

Yes, it's a hell of a lot of fun!

[Kurtdog]

I've seen it happen many many times. What's the deal man?

 

I love collecting coins. If it were a source of stress for me, I wouldn't do it. I mean, don't get me wrong. I like debate. In fact, I think debate is important. But I can't think of a time that I've ever been upset or angry over debating coins. Maybe because coins are just a hobby to me and a business to others?

Maybe. "Why do some folks get so upset over opinions on coins?" There's a lot of money in those "opinions."

[BillJones]

A hobby isn't determined by how much you spend on something, it's how much enjoyment and pleasure you get out of it.

 

Here is my "third hobby" model trains. I'll never get my money out this; it's just fun.

 

 

The passenger train in the foreground with the Tuscan red cars has been a 5 + year project. The cars are made by Bachman and have lit interiors, which is unusual for HO scale passenger trains. They have been out of production for years, and it took some searching on eBay to find them. I bought them, but then had to have most of them rehabbed to get them to light. Fortunately there a fellow who runs a train store in my area who does that kind of work. Most of them won't work on HO.

 

This is based on childhood memories. When my father was in the Christmas holly wreath business, he would take my mother and I to New York City around December 15 when after his season was over. There we would take in some plays and movies and look at the competition was offering to plan for next year's line. Since I lived in a rural community and began to hate the isolation more and more, getting to go the "big city" was a real treat. And riding on the then rickety old passenger train (These cars were in really bad shape in the mid 1950s) from Wilmington, Delaware to New York was a treat.

 

The CXS freight train in back of the Pennsylvania train is a common sight in Florida.

 

[bsshog40]

Thats awesome Bill!!

[RWB]

Nice model RR!

[jom]

A hobby isn't determined by how much you spend on something, it's how much enjoyment and pleasure you get out of it.

 

Here is my "third hobby" model trains. I'll never get my money out this; it's just fun.

 

 

The passenger train in the foreground with the Tuscan red cars has been a 5 + year project. The cars are made by Bachman and have lit interiors, which is unusual for HO scale passenger trains. They have been out of production for years, and it took some searching on eBay to find them. I bought them, but then had to have most of them rehabbed to get them to light. Fortunately there a fellow who runs a train store in my area who does that kind of work. Most of them won't work on HO.

 

This is based on childhood memories. When my father was in the Christmas holly wreath business, he would take my mother and I to New York City around December 15 when after his season was over. There we would take in some plays and movies and look at the competition was offering to plan for next year's line. Since I lived in a rural community and began to hate the isolation more and more, getting to go the "big city" was a real treat. And riding on the then rickety old passenger train (These cars were in really bad shape in the mid 1950s) from Wilmington, Delaware to New York was a treat.

 

The CXS freight train in back of the Pennsylvania train is a common sight in Florida.

 

Cool Bill! I wanted to get into that as well but from an electronics stand point. About 15 years ago I wanted to develop some DCC boards to go into the engines...I never got around to it though...it would have been fun...

 

jom

[mikew148]

I've seen it happen many many times. What's the deal man?

 

I love collecting coins. If it were a source of stress for me, I wouldn't do it. I mean, don't get me wrong. I like debate. In fact, I think debate is important. But I can't think of a time that I've ever been upset or angry over debating coins. Maybe because coins are just a hobby to me and a business to others?

Maybe. "Why do some folks get so upset over opinions on coins?" There's a lot of money in those "opinions."

 

A lot of money and that can fluctuate greatly when the "experts" chime in, both positively and negatively.

 

Personally, I don't get upset, I may disagree and express my opinion but upset - No

[Walkerfan]

The RR set looks like fun, Bill!!

[Kurtdog]

Yeah, conductor, looking good!

[Nutmeg Coin]

I generally get along with dealers at coin shows, there is something about the faceless internet that makes numismatic analysis more problematic. I have a half dozen other serious hobbies, and one of them (chess) has caused physical face to face games and clubs to become even less common.