FE and IHC Photo-seal/CAC experiences

[JIM F.]

Interested in people's experience in CAC/Photoseal submittals. That is, did your Photoseals also get a CAC, and vice-versa.

 

Also, did your rejected Photoseals get an accepted or rejected CAC, and vice-versa.

 

I hope there are enough responses to the thread to evaluate Photoseal vis-a-vis CAC.

 

Thank You.

[Hard Times]

only one PS submitted so far to CAC, it beaned.

 

Best, HT

[JIM F.]

I have 1 experience. A FE PCGS MS-63 Photoseal. Sent to CAC - no bean.

Just 1 data point.

 

 

[Coindude]

I had a buddy who was selling his Indian cent collection many of which were PS. He sent them back to Rick to see what he would offer. Some of them he didn't even want to make an offer on and the ones he did he made at a fraction of what the original purchase price was from him.

 

That doesn't really answer your question regarding CAC but I felt it was relevant regarding the creator of the PS.

[brg5658]

I had a busy who was selling his Indian cent collection many of which were PS. He sent them back to Rick to see what he would offer. Some of them he didn't even want to make an offer on and the ones he did he made at a fraction of what the original purchase price was from him.

 

That doesn't really answer your question regarding CAC but I felt it was relevant regarding the creator of the PS.

 

That's disturbing to know....

 

Do you have any information on what "fraction" we're talking here? Like 80%? 85%? Or are we talking like insulting low fraction here?

 

caveat emptor!

[GoldFinger1969]

No idea what a PhotoSeal is.....

[JIM F.]

I had a busy who was selling his Indian cent collection many of which were PS. He sent them back to Rick to see what he would offer. Some of them he didn't even want to make an offer on and the ones he did he made at a fraction of what the original purchase price was from him.

 

That doesn't really answer your question regarding CAC but I felt it was relevant regarding the creator of the PS.

 

That's disturbing to know....

 

Do you have any information on what "fraction" we're talking here? Like 80%? 85%? Or are we talking like insulting low fraction here?

 

caveat emptor!

This is interesting. If true, PS is not worth anything and RS should be discredited. As mentioned in an earlier post my one and only PS was rejected by CAC.

 

 

 

 

 

[ldhair]

I had a busy who was selling his Indian cent collection many of which were PS. He sent them back to Rick to see what he would offer. Some of them he didn't even want to make an offer on and the ones he did he made at a fraction of what the original purchase price was from him.

 

That doesn't really answer your question regarding CAC but I felt it was relevant regarding the creator of the PS.

It's very possible Rick did not need the coins or did not care to deal with the guy for some reason. We have no way of knowing.

 

 

[ldhair]

I had a busy who was selling his Indian cent collection many of which were PS. He sent them back to Rick to see what he would offer. Some of them he didn't even want to make an offer on and the ones he did he made at a fraction of what the original purchase price was from him.

 

That doesn't really answer your question regarding CAC but I felt it was relevant regarding the creator of the PS.

 

That's disturbing to know....

 

Do you have any information on what "fraction" we're talking here? Like 80%? 85%? Or are we talking like insulting low fraction here?

 

caveat emptor!

This is interesting. If true, PS is not worth anything and RS should be discredited. As mentioned in an earlier post my one and only PS was rejected by CAC.

 

 

 

 

Based on the few post in this thread, do you really feel you are being fair.

It sounds like you just have a problem with Rick.

[TonerGuy]

I had a busy who was selling his Indian cent collection many of which were PS. He sent them back to Rick to see what he would offer. Some of them he didn't even want to make an offer on and the ones he did he made at a fraction of what the original purchase price was from him.

 

That doesn't really answer your question regarding CAC but I felt it was relevant regarding the creator of the PS.

 

Off topic a little... but I am curious since you brought this up...

 

Is it CAC's policy that they will buy all coins they sticker ?

 

Has anyone tried to get JA to buy CAC coins ? What did they find ? Did JA make strong offers or were you offered sheet ?

[wheat'swheats]

CAC will buy their stickered coins, The ones I sold JA were at about 15% above bid and a couple at ask.

[Coindude]

I had a buddy who was selling his Indian cent collection many of which were PS. He sent them back to Rick to see what he would offer. Some of them he didn't even want to make an offer on and the ones he did he made at a fraction of what the original purchase price was from him.

That doesn't really answer your question regarding CAC but I felt it was relevant regarding the creator of the PS.

That's disturbing to know....

Do you have any information on what "fraction" we're talking here? Like 80%? 85%? Or are we talking like insulting low fraction here?

caveat emptor!

This is interesting. If true, PS is not worth anything and RS should be discredited. As mentioned in an earlier post my one and only PS was rejected by CAC.

To answer this question, if you call less than 80% insulting then he was very insulted.

 

A statement for Jim, I'm not sure if he should be discredited, but I think it shows that it's quite possible that he's at least a little overpriced. He's done a lot of work for the small cent collector and he's built his PS brand and has his followers and I will not speak of that which I do not know. I can only tell you the story of a very close friend who was greatly disappointed when he tried to sell back some coins to the same dealer from whom he purchased.

 

I also wanted to state that I changed my typo from "busy" to "buddy"!

It's very possible Rick did not need the coins or did not care to deal with the guy for some reason. We have no way of knowing.

Larry, this is a valid point, I was not that closely involved so I do not have the answer. The only person who would be able to answer that is Rick and I doubt he would remember, it's been a few years.

[JIM F.]

Perhaps my memory is cloudy, but wasn't the idea of the PS so that they would be guaranteed to be bought back by RS at a pre-set price? It was 20 years ago when I bought my FE from RS, so maybe I misunderstood, or the policy has changed. My intent of this thread was to compare CAC results with PS from an objective standpoint, somehow it went sideways.

[Hard Times]

From Indiancent.com:

 

'What is Photo Seal?

Eagle Eye Rare Coins specializes in Flying Eagle and Indian Cents. We have sold well over $1 million worth of these coins to collectors every year since our company was formed in 1993. In 1994, we decided that it would benefit collectors if we made a buy and sell market in Flying Eagle and Indian Cents. One rule of this market is that our buy price is no less that 75% of our selling price. In theory, this should work very well, but in practice, with the current available supply of NGC and PCGS certified coins (also known as slabs), it is impossible.'

 

So it looks like they will offer 75% on buy back unless they have a reason to buy it for more, it is in print, so you know what you are getting when you buy a PS coin from this website.

 

If I wanted a following from a consumer/customer base, I would offer at least 90% assuming the MV has stayed the same. That is how you get long-term buyers - stand by what you sell and back it up with strong buy back.

 

Best, HT

 

[Hard Times]

More from Indiancent.com:

 

'How can Photo Seal help me?

Many ways. If you are a beginning collector with limited skills in grading, you should get a few Photo Sealed coins as grading examples. You can compare these with other coins offered to minimize the chance of you getting taken on an overgraded coin. Remember - an overgraded coin is an overpriced coin that will be tough to sell.

 

If you are building a collection and are having trouble getting quality coins sent to you, try ordering a few Photo Sealed coins. Typically, collectors are amazed at the coins they get from their first few orders from Eagle Eye. Later, as their grading knowledge increases, they want only Photo Sealed coins.

 

If you have a collection of Photo Sealed coins, you will have a very easy time selling them. Just pick up a phone and call us. Since we've seen the coins, we know that they are nice. And we want them! No hassles. No questions regarding quality. And our checks go out instantly on acceptance of our offer.

 

If you see a Photo Sealed coin anywhere, you know what its price should be, so there is no question with the value or the grade - the only question which remains is if you like the coin enough to add it to your collection. It's possible that you may be able to buy a Photo Sealed coin at a price below our buy price, in which case you could make some money as well.'

 

Best, HT

[Coindude]

My intent of this thread was to compare CAC results with PS from an objective standpoint, somehow it went sideways.

Looks like I will have to take credit for this thread going awry. It was not my intent to to skew this thread just to provide pertinent information.

[James_OldeTowne]

I could swear that at one time, CAC made statement that Photoseal coins would be automatically treated as if stickered. In other words, the Photoseal was viewed AS a sticker with regard to their sight-unseen buying/selling.

[JIM F.]

I could swear that at one time, CAC made statement that Photoseal coins would be automatically treated as if stickered. In other words, the Photoseal was viewed AS a sticker with regard to their sight-unseen buying/selling.

It would be great if that could be verified since my PS came back from CAC as a reject.

 

Thanks for posting.

 

[BKW]

I have an IHC that is both PS and CAC. It received the PS sticker first.

 

As to the "off topic" portion of this thread, I tend to buy and sell from different dealers. I've found dealers that sell at high prices also buy at high prices and dealers that sell at lower prices also buy at lower prices.

[RWB]

"Photoseals" are mammals -- doubt there's anything "fishy."

[Coindude]

"Photoseals" are mammals -- doubt there's anything "fishy."

I thought you would go with photogenic seals!

[RWB]

"Smilie Seals"....that works too! (..or maybe it's "Simile Seals" ?)

[michael]

i luv the smile seals along with the dynosaur seal of approval on slabs

 

my all time fav is the bright neon WOW!!! stickers

 

note-- all stickers are small and round

 

a collector showed me all his slabs and they had all three and he was duly impressed and thought he had the finest; all time best coins in these slabs

 

he asked me my opinion and i told him who could argue with that

 

he walked away really happy so was i collecting is fun and if someone is happy so am i

[leeg]

I could swear that at one time, CAC made statement that Photoseal coins would be automatically treated as if stickered. In other words, the Photoseal was viewed AS a sticker with regard to their sight-unseen buying/selling.

James I remember the statement also. I thought Rick made the announcement on the PCGS Coin Forum though?

 

Searched a little bit for it but didn't find it.

[leeg]

I had a busy who was selling his Indian cent collection many of which were PS. He sent them back to Rick to see what he would offer. Some of them he didn't even want to make an offer on and the ones he did he made at a fraction of what the original purchase price was from him.

 

That doesn't really answer your question regarding CAC but I felt it was relevant regarding the creator of the PS.

 

Off topic a little... but I am curious since you brought this up...

 

Is it CAC's policy that they will buy all coins they sticker ?

 

Has anyone tried to get JA to buy CAC coins ? What did they find ? Did JA make strong offers or were you offered sheet ?

 

I sold a 21 Peace Dollar to CAC and didn't lose any money on it.

[e1cnr]

One of CACs advantage is they see the coin after it has been in the slab for awhile. If anything was done or left on coin before slabbing it has a better chance of being observed after a few months/years. I am talking about handling, coughing,etc. as well as dipping w/o neutralizing or actual intentional doctoring.

 

I have no doubt that an occasional coin recently slabbed and quickly CAC'd would no longer qualify if checked 5 years later.

 

The same would be said of Rick Snows photoseal, and seriously doubt if CAC ever said they would blindly accept that seal as good enough for them.

[TonerGuy]

One of CACs advantage is they see the coin after it has been in the slab for awhile. If anything was done or left on coin before slabbing it has a better chance of being observed after a few months/years. I am talking about handling, coughing,etc. as well as dipping w/o neutralizing or actual intentional doctoring.

 

Im confused. Are you talking about the RS coins or are you talking about any coin ?

 

And why is it that they only see a coin after its been in a slab for months to years ?

 

Are you not allowed to send them recently slabbed coins ? Does it take that long before they end up looking at the coin ?

 

Im not familiar with CAC's policies.

[bochiman]

I could swear that at one time, CAC made statement that Photoseal coins would be automatically treated as if stickered. In other words, the Photoseal was viewed AS a sticker with regard to their sight-unseen buying/selling.

James I remember the statement also. I thought Rick made the announcement on the PCGS Coin Forum though?

 

Searched a little bit for it but didn't find it.

 

Lee,

 

I remember it that way as well. It was Rick making the announcement, likely without an already existing thread and not as a new thread.

 

I have very poor connectivity where I am in China this week, so I can't help attempt to find it, but I did want to say wart you recall was correct.

[illini420]

I could swear that at one time, CAC made statement that Photoseal coins would be automatically treated as if stickered. In other words, the Photoseal was viewed AS a sticker with regard to their sight-unseen buying/selling.

James I remember the statement also. I thought Rick made the announcement on the PCGS Coin Forum though?

 

Searched a little bit for it but didn't find it.

 

Lee,

 

I remember it that way as well. It was Rick making the announcement, likely without an already existing thread and not as a new thread.

 

I have very poor connectivity where I am in China this week, so I can't help attempt to find it, but I did want to say wart you recall was correct.

 

 

I too remember that coins with the Eagle Eye Photo Seal were seen equal to CAC stickers for their CAC bids and supposedly Eagle Eye Photo Sealed coins were automatically given CAC stickers for a time. That announcement was made not only on the CU forum, but also in one of the Market Reports posted on Eagle Eye's website.

 

Obviously, at some point CAC stopped that policy for some reason and the Market Reports on the Eagle Eye website are no longer available.

[MarkFeld]

One of CACs advantage is they see the coin after it has been in the slab for awhile. If anything was done or left on coin before slabbing it has a better chance of being observed after a few months/years. I am talking about handling, coughing,etc. as well as dipping w/o neutralizing or actual intentional doctoring.

 

Im confused. Are you talking about the RS coins or are you talking about any coin ?

 

And why is it that they only see a coin after its been in a slab for months to years ?

 

Are you not allowed to send them recently slabbed coins ? Does it take that long before they end up looking at the coin ?

 

Im not familiar with CAC's policies.

 

CAC reviews very recently encapsulated coins, as well as older ones. And the turnaround time is usually less than a week after the coin is received.

 

The post to which you referred probably meant that CAC is less likely than NGC or PCGS to view a coin, right at the time of encapsulation.