I'm aggravated!! Update!! See last post.

[bsshog40]

I was looking on the BST ats and found a reasonably priced coin I wanted. He was asking best offer from in which I offered $10 less and said he could'nt. No problem, I told him I wanted the coin at his price and please send pics. I started communication with him on sunday night. Got replies back ok, got pics yesterday, and sent out payment this evening thru paypal. Right after I sent the paypal payment, this is the pm I get from him:

 

I did a bit of a bonehead thing here... the Columbian WAS an NGC MS-63, but when I couldn't find the slab, I checked my Type Set book, and there it is, cracked out, and deposited in the Commemoratives Section. I put the NGC tag in the back of my album - for all the good it will do you - but it was one of those inexpensive coins I didn't feel too bad about cracking out for the album.

 

So... if you wish to change your mind here, absolutely no problem with that, and I'll send the funds back to you.

 

Please let me know what your decision is... and again, I'm very sorry I hadn't thought about this or noticed it before you went to the trouble of sending funds. Still, it IS a nice coin, and if you'd like me to send it for your review, you are welcome to send it back and I'll refund the entire amount, including shipping.

 

This just really aggravated me. You would think that someone selling a slabbed coin would know if it was cracked out before listing it in the BST. Now I'll have to get my refund, then transfer funds from paypal back to my bank acct. which will take at least 3-4 business days. I appreciate his remorse, but things like this just upset me.

Rant Over!!!

[BROADSTRUCK]

I can understand you being aggravated as It sounds fishy to me too

[Walkerfan]

I'd be a little disappointed and ticked, too.

 

Some people just don't use their heads.

 

People like you or me are very detail-oriented but, unfortunately, many other people are not.

 

I have come to learn this in some of my dealings.

 

Maybe he was hoping that you'd keep the coin anyway and KNEW it was not slabbed.

[BROADSTRUCK]

Well if it makes you feel better around xmas I had something on the bst ats and was made an offer from a newer member which I accepted. Then he then turns around and offers me trade instead of cash. There was nothing there I wanted but helped him sell off all his stuff on the bst giving him advice on how to take pics and write the ads, etc. Once sold we even spoke on the phone to finalize things. Then as I hadn't received payment after a couple days I recontact and he decides to low ball me 20% off our agreed price. I even stated if it's a monetary issue we can do a terms deal if needed? He proceeds to tell me that it's either this amount or nothing as he doesn't think he can confirm if he'll ever have the difference available to pay me? Anyhow I had 68 pm's invested and walked away like wtf just happened? I haven't done much on the bst since as it kinda left a bad taste in my mouth... As ugh I've never dealt with anything like this there before!

[mkman123]

thats too bad broadstruck! I got ripped off by twinturbo and he got banned here and over there but otherwise BST here and ATS are great places and many great members.

[jom]

If the seller's issue was not any funny business I would NOT have a problem with it. I try not to get annoyed by this stuff because...you know...I make mistakes too.

 

jom

[Coindude]

I understand the frustration. On the other hand the seller was quite polite and offered a few solutions about the situation.

[Crohnos01]

Hmmm... I don't know what to think on this one. I have heard that coin collectors as a rule tend to be rather detail oriented folks.…lets face it, scrutinizing coins looking for a VAM takes a "Special" person. Consequently, I am afraid I would question if the guy is being completely honest about what happened. To me, posting a coin from your collection in the BST without even looking at it to remember that you cracked it out??? Who does that???

 

[bsshog40]

I've never had a problem here or ats Bst's. I know mistakes can be made, but I also know that when I decide to sell something, I first make sure I still have it and that it's still in the condition I'm claiming it to be. It's only common sense when you are putting your reputation on the line in a forum that you have been part of for many years.

[MarkFeld]

Hmmm... I don't know what to think on this one. I have heard that coin collectors as a rule tend to be rather detail oriented folks.…lets face it, scrutinizing coins looking for a VAM takes a "Special" person. Consequently, I am afraid I would question if the guy is being completely honest about what happened. To me, posting a coin from your collection in the BST without even looking at it to remember that you cracked it out??? Who does that???

 

Detail oriented, in general, or not, coin collectors are human beings and make mistakes. I would give him the benefit of the doubt and see no good reason to question his veracity.

[jpcienkus]

I'd be aggravated too Bobby. You would think one would know the situation on each coin your selling. Hopefully a better coin @ a better price is just around the corner!

 

Broadstruck, that situation would really me off. To think, not only did you have an agreed upon price, but you helped him market and sell his coins and then he comes back with the reduced offer. I guess I just don't understand some people.

[Kurtdog]

I think I agree with Mark on this one, Bobby. What kind of apology do you expect from this guy? He bent over backwards. If you weren't collecting a slab, it wouldn't matter. Why don't you tell him that? You contracted for a slab, and a coin, and you're not getting the former. If he's just offering you the coin, now, see if he'll deal with you.

[cpm9ball]

Hmmm... I don't know what to think on this one. I have heard that coin collectors as a rule tend to be rather detail oriented folks.…lets face it, scrutinizing coins looking for a VAM takes a "Special" person. Consequently, I am afraid I would question if the guy is being completely honest about what happened. To me, posting a coin from your collection in the BST without even looking at it to remember that you cracked it out??? Who does that???

 

Detail oriented, in general, or not, coin collectors are human beings and make mistakes. I would give him the benefit of the doubt and see no good reason to question his veracity.

 

(thumbs u

 

Mistakes can happen. Let's face it, we ain't getting any younger.

 

About 18 months ago, I consigned a mixed bag of stuff to Shane. Included was an empty presentation case for a 1930 MA medal which had a replica of the Pine Tree Shilling on the reverse. It didn't sell, and I simply forgot about it.

 

Just recently, I decided to sell some of my US medals (private mints) and I came across that very medal in a 2x2 with the notation at the bottom "with box". All at once, it dawned on me, and when I spoke to Shane, he said that he still had it. I'm fortunate that Shane is such an honest and considerate person.

 

Bobby, I wouldn't be too upset about it. It sounds like he is trying to go out of his way to make things right.

 

Chris

[toneddollars]

I thought the seller was quite remorseful. Stuff happens. I thought you were buying the coin not the plastic. If me I would have just let it go.

[brg5658]

Those of you saying "you bought the coin, not the slab" are overlooking the liquidity value of the slab and the amount of money it would take Bobby to get it back in the plastic when the time to resell it came.

 

Yes, it's about the coin -- but I don't think many of you would be happy if I listed an 1893-S in XF45 for sell, telling you it was in PCGS plastic. Then, after you sent me the PayPal payment, I tell you that it was cracked and in my Dansco, but I still have the label. The $ amount is sort of irrelevant, the point is that the seller didn't have what he described he had.

 

Now, personally, I would be aggravated as Bobby was, but I would let it go. Of course, I'm hoping he "refunds" your PayPal payment, so you aren't both paying the PayPal juice both ways for regular transfers. I would also probably avoid doing business with this seller in the future.

[AcesKings]

Before Thanksgiving I PM'd about a book for sale in the BST and noted such in the BST thread. After a little more than a week of not getting a reply, I PM'd again asking if it was still available, still nothing. Being the holiday season, I figured they may be busy with holiday activities. To this date none of the PMs I sent have been read by the poster. So, a little advice to those who do post in the BST, CHECK YOUR PMS IF YOU POST SOMETHING!!!!!!

[Kurtdog]

Those of you saying "you bought the coin, not the slab" are overlooking the liquidity value of the slab and the amount of money it would take Bobby to get it back in the plastic when the time to resell it came.

 

Yes, it's about the coin -- but I don't think many of you would be happy if I listed an 1893-S in XF45 for sell, telling you it was in PCGS plastic. Then, after you sent me the PayPal payment, I tell you that it was cracked and in my Dansco, but I still have the label. The $ amount is sort of irrelevant, the point is that the seller didn't have what he described he had.

 

Now, personally, I would be aggravated as Bobby was, but I would let it go. Of course, I'm hoping he "refunds" your PayPal payment, so you aren't both paying the PayPal juice both ways for regular transfers. I would also probably avoid doing business with this seller in the future.

That's extreme. Get over it.

[Matt_dac]

If it makes you feel any better, he will have to pay a fee to refund the money to you.

 

He made a mistake in offering a product incorrectly - the slab is absolutely part of the product offering. Hopefully you will get all your money back when he realizes he has to pay a fee.

[Crohnos01]

Mark Feld is a much better man than I, and obviously is much more forgiving than I am. Maybe you're right, those of you who are giving the seller the benefit of the doubt. And Lord knows I have pulled some bonehead maneuvers myself from time to time. Maybe its just me, but I care very much about my reputation, especially on the BST and I can't imagine selling something , coin or otherwise, without due consideration of what I am selling.

 

I guess I too would just move on, but wow.... This would leave a very bad taste in my mouth and I can't blame Bobby for venting.

[brg5658]

Those of you saying "you bought the coin, not the slab" are overlooking the liquidity value of the slab and the amount of money it would take Bobby to get it back in the plastic when the time to resell it came.

 

Yes, it's about the coin -- but I don't think many of you would be happy if I listed an 1893-S in XF45 for sell, telling you it was in PCGS plastic. Then, after you sent me the PayPal payment, I tell you that it was cracked and in my Dansco, but I still have the label. The $ amount is sort of irrelevant, the point is that the seller didn't have what he described he had.

 

Now, personally, I would be aggravated as Bobby was, but I would let it go. Of course, I'm hoping he "refunds" your PayPal payment, so you aren't both paying the PayPal juice both ways for regular transfers. I would also probably avoid doing business with this seller in the future.

That's extreme. Get over it.

 

Kick rocks.

[bsshog40]

I am letting it go but doesn't mean that it doesn't aggravate me. The seller is doing me right by refunding, but it's the principal of the whole deal that set me off. I was buying a coin that was slabbed. Yea I could buy the unslabbed coin but then I would have to invest in slabbing it again. The pictures sent weren't the best but I could tell it was a properly graded MS63 with a little nice toning. But I also wanted it in the graded slab as that was how it was advertised and nothing was said different until after the payment was made. I haven't condemned the seller, just feel that he could have verified what he was selling a little more thorough.

[CaptHenway]

I think that the seller should have paid the grading fee to have the coin re-slabbed at the original grade and then delivered it at the agreed-upon price. This is called "honor."

[bochiman]

Sucks when something like that happens. Sorry you have gone through that.

 

Honest mistakes do happen and, while I agree with you that a seller should have the item in-hand when selling, I could see how this could have happened:

 

Seller has all slabbed coins in SDB and hasn't seen many coins for awhile as they are stored away.

Seller decides to sell some coins.

Seller looks at their spreadsheet/list of collection and decides which coin(s) to sell.

Seller lists the coin(s) to sell.

Seller plans to get the coins but hasn't done it yet, they are still in SDB.

Seller finds mistake the way you mention it happening...

 

Again, sucks, but at least it wasn't nefarious.

 

What would actually aggravate me is your mention that there was a "or best offer" put out there and you had offered only $10 less. To me, if I put an OBO, then, unless I am working on razor thin numbers and only willing to discount if multiple items are purchased (saves on shipping, etc), $10 would be so piddly that I would accept it, or, if I didn't think I could, I would have just stated "hard price" to start with.

 

 

For Broadstruck's example.....that really sucks as there was actual time invested and heavy expectations. I would like to know who that was so I wouldn't potentially deal with them.

[Kurtdog]

I think that the seller should have paid the grading fee to have the coin re-slabbed at the original grade and then delivered it at the agreed-upon price. This is called "honor."

So he's not a candidate for the medal of honor, huh? You must live a sheltered life.

[Kurtdog]

Sucks when something like that happens. Sorry you have gone through that.

 

Honest mistakes do happen and, while I agree with you that a seller should have the item in-hand when selling, I could see how this could have happened:

 

Seller has all slabbed coins in SDB and hasn't seen many coins for awhile as they are stored away.

Seller decides to sell some coins.

Seller looks at their spreadsheet/list of collection and decides which coin(s) to sell.

Seller lists the coin(s) to sell.

Seller plans to get the coins but hasn't done it yet, they are still in SDB.

Seller finds mistake the way you mention it happening...

 

Again, sucks, but at least it wasn't nefarious.

 

What would actually aggravate me is your mention that there was a "or best offer" put out there and you had offered only $10 less. To me, if I put an OBO, then, unless I am working on razor thin numbers and only willing to discount if multiple items are purchased (saves on shipping, etc), $10 would be so piddly that I would accept it, or, if I didn't think I could, I would have just stated "hard price" to start with.

 

 

For Broadstruck's example.....that really sucks as there was actual time invested and heavy expectations. I would like to know who that was so I wouldn't potentially deal with them.

Yeah, I don't know how he's going to get on. The guy twisted himself into a pretzel to apologize. Forgive. Forget. Get back in the saddle, get on with your life.

[rrantique]

I think that the seller should have paid the grading fee to have the coin re-slabbed at the original grade and then delivered it at the agreed-upon price. This is called "honor."

 

This (thumbs u

[MarkFeld]

I think that the seller should have paid the grading fee to have the coin re-slabbed at the original grade and then delivered it at the agreed-upon price. This is called "honor."

 

This (thumbs u

 

What if the coin graded higher or lower the second time?

[rrantique]

I think that the seller should have paid the grading fee to have the coin re-slabbed at the original grade and then delivered it at the agreed-upon price. This is called "honor."

 

This (thumbs u

 

What if the coin graded higher or lower the second time?

 

This is what I would do if I was the seller Mark. If the coin graded higher, then Bobby would get a higher graded coin for the agreed amount. If it graded lower than a 63 then I would refund the FMV difference to Bobby. But that is just me and my integrity.

[copper toning]

Those of you saying "you bought the coin, not the slab" are overlooking the liquidity value of the slab and the amount of money it would take Bobby to get it back in the plastic when the time to resell it came.

 

Yes, it's about the coin -- but I don't think many of you would be happy if I listed an 1893-S in XF45 for sell, telling you it was in PCGS plastic. Then, after you sent me the PayPal payment, I tell you that it was cracked and in my Dansco, but I still have the label. The $ amount is sort of irrelevant, the point is that the seller didn't have what he described he had.

 

Now, personally, I would be aggravated as Bobby was, but I would let it go. Of course, I'm hoping he "refunds" your PayPal payment, so you aren't both paying the PayPal juice both ways for regular transfers. I would also probably avoid doing business with this seller in the future.

That's extreme. Get over it.

 

Kick rocks.

 

I wish when someone quoted a member who is blocked the quote was still blocked.

 

Thanks to you Brandon I had to read one of the 4 posts

 

As for Bobby I agree with you.

 

I know you are aggrevated and you will get over it.

 

No reason you cant rant a little sometimes it helps.

 

Funny thing, I went to a local shop today and picked up a toned kennedy proof and it made me think of you and the 2 kennedy's you recently purchased.

[coinman1794]

It sounds like an honest mistake made by a collector who is not in the business of selling coins. Additionally, he was very gracious and apologetic upon discovering the problem. I don't see any indication of this being a scam, thus far, and I absolutely don't see any reason to cry over spilt milk, if you will .