Auction Lot...interesting.

[jom]

See here:

 

1934 Buffalo Nickel

 

I viewed this coin last week at Bowers. Afterward, I was checking prices and found it in a Heritage auction from last September:

 

At Heritage

 

The coin went for an astonishing $5000.

 

I can't imagine anyone thinking this is a $5000 coin. However, it is up for sale again and the bid is already at $2500 at "No Reserve". I'm sorry but I don't believe that for a moment. Someone is doing some "funny" bidding here...I dunno...like maybe the owner?

 

I saw this coin it is in no way a 67 or 68 (look at the spots) ie an upgrade. It was a neat coin but...really...$5000? It's roughly a $900 or so, IMO.

 

Is the owner of the coin really allowed to bid...this lot just seems odd to me. Thoughts?

 

jom

 

 

[coinman_23885]

I agree with you. I have owned better coins than this one for the date and mint mark. I think $900 would be more than fair with the spots. In any event, I am usually pretty conservative with toners anyway, so I am probably being far too strict with this coin.

[mumu]

Is that a weak strike for the year?

[e1cnr]

you are a buffalo nickel collector

 

the bidders/current owner are after art toning

and willing to pay for it - like a beautiful painting

 

so your opinion on this lot, does not really matter, as it is bid past what you feel is reasonable....

[Walkerfan]

The coin is not spectacular by any means.

[James_OldeTowne]

The coin is not spectacular by any means.

I agree, yet of even more interest to me, that toning has the exact look and "fingerprint" of a certain, shall we say, "buffalo toning specialist", and I would not trust it at all.

 

It looks like CAC approves, but I would not touch that coin at anywhere near four figures.

[WoodenJefferson]

This maybe nothing, but the Stacks coin is in a pronged holder, the Heritege coin is in the standard gasket.

[jom]

This maybe nothing, but the Stacks coin is in a pronged holder, the Heritege coin is in the standard gasket.

 

They tried for a re-grade?

 

I know that price is subjective and all that. However, I spent many years chasing toned Buffs and have paid some premiums but this was pretty strange.

 

Mumu: 1934 often come with weaker strikes as I recall. A LOT of dates do...even Philly issues. However, strike does matter in grading too so how anyone thought this coin would grade to 67, which really is the only way to justify $5K, is beyond me.

 

I just thought that someone buried themselves and are now trying to set a reserve on the coin. I dunno...I could be wrong...who knows? Maybe I'm missing something here...a variety I'm not seeing.

 

James: You could be right about the toning but the color band is pretty tight. I'm not convinced our toning "friend" from the mid-west had his hands on this one. Maybe....

 

jom

[mumu]

I dont know why everyone seems to be saying strike doesnt matter all of the sudden ever since the rich guy said it. Every grading book(5) I have ever read and both the PCGS and NGC grading guidelines make strike a factor at every MS grade level. Yet suddenly no one cares about strike.

 

http://www.pcgs.com/grades.html

 

 

MS/PR-63

 

Moderate number/size marks/hairlines, strike may not be full

 

 

 

MS/PR-63+

 

Average number of marks/hairlines, strike will be close to average. Good eye appeal for grade.

 

 

 

MS/PR-64

 

Few marks/hairlines or a couple of severe ones, strike should be average or above

 

 

 

MS/PR-64+

 

Very few marks/hairlines or a couple of heavier ones, strike should be average or above. Superior eye appeal.

 

 

 

MS/PR-65

 

Minor marks/hairlines though none in focal areas, above average strike

 

 

 

MS/PR-65+

 

Very minor marks/hairlines though none in focal areas, above average strike and eye appeal

 

 

 

MS/PR-66

 

Few minor marks/hairlines not in focal areas, good strike

 

 

 

MS/PR-66+

 

Very few minor marks/hairlines not in focal areas, very good strike with superior eye appeal

 

 

 

MS/PR-67

 

Virtually as struck with minor imperfections, very well struck

 

 

 

MS/PR-67+

 

Virtually as struck with very minor imperfections, very well struck with attractive eye appeal

 

 

 

MS/PR-68

 

Virtually as struck with slight imperfections, slightest weakness of strike allowed

 

 

 

MS/PR-68+

 

Virtually as struck with very slight imperfections, the strike must be virtually full. Eye appeal must be very good.

 

 

 

MS/PR-69

 

Virtually as struck with minuscule imperfections, near full strike necessary

 

[TonerGuy]

@jom - how hard are 34-Ps and Ds to find nicely rainbow toned ?

[jom]

@jom - how hard are 34-Ps and Ds to find nicely rainbow toned ?

 

Good question. The problem for me is that most of the Buffalos I paid attention to were pre-1931 so I didn't go after the late dates all that much....except for my avatar and a couple of others.

 

I do remember a magnificent 34-D that was in a Heritage sale years ago...here:

 

1934-D

 

$4000 was HUGE money at the time (probably still is) but the coin was amazing (the picture sucks). I really haven't seen anything like that for the date in years....but to be honest I didn't look all that hard at those later dates.

 

jom

[dimefreak]

Very simple..... Stacks places house bids like no other.....

[BillJones]

When I was a dealer running through boxes of coins at show, I would not have even asked for quote on this piece in an MS-66 holder because of the spots. Some "grading experts" claim that spots don't matter. That's a bunch of bunk. On a Gem Mint State coin they are of great importance. They are a mark of deterioration in the preservation of the coin, and they very much matter. To me an MS-66 coin is a Mint State piece with defects that are not immediately obvious. If you can see something, like these spots, it is not an MS-66 coin IMO.

 

As for the hammer price on this piece, it makes no sense, except in the context of the less than rational toned coin market. Taking data from "Coin Facts" PCGS has graded 181 of these coins in MS-66 and 22 in MS-67 with none higher. The second highest price paid for a PCGS MS-66 graded coin is $646. The $4,994 is what statisticians would call an "extreme outlier." Only an NGC MS-67 graded piece has sold for more, $5,463. Most of the MS-67 graded coins have sold for somewhere in the mid $3,000s.

 

[MarkFeld]

Very simple..... Stacks places house bids like no other.....

 

And your evidence for that accusation is...?

[dimefreak]

Very simple..... Stacks places house bids like no other.....

 

And your evidence for that accusation is...?

 

I just made it up completley..... Stacks never uses house bids

[MarkFeld]

Very simple..... Stacks places house bids like no other.....

 

And your evidence for that accusation is...?

 

I just made it up completley..... Stacks never uses house bids

 

Ah, your resort to sarcasm routine, again. But that doesn't negate the fact that your original accusation in the form of a statement, was extremely reckless.