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Fake 2011 U.S. silver eagles- be careful

Started by thirdgreenham,

29 posts in this topic

thirdgreenham

thirdgreenham

Posted
Posted

Earlier this week, another dealer gave me one of these 2011 fake silver eagles. They are going around Toronto, Canada, and I wanted to get the word out to all of you, to give some warning. They were offered in capsules and in pages. If the dealer bought those, the seller would then bring out some more in tubes.

 

 

fake_eagle_obverse.gif

fake_eagle_reverse.gif

fake_eagle_on_scale.gif

 

The fake eagle is on the left, the real eagle is on the right.

 

fake_on_left_real_on_right_obverse.gif

fake_on_left_real_on_right_reverse.gif

 

Please take note that when you spin the fake around, it is minted "medal" style as opposed to the standard U.S. "coinage" style.

fake_on_left_real_on_right_reverse_fake_is_medal_real_is_coinage.gif

 

The fakes are thicker, and the diameter is smaller than 41mm, probably 40mm.

The fakes are weigh as high as 32.6 grams, as shown, and apparently as low as 31.1 grams.

The fakes are non-magnetic.

There are loads of differences between the real and fake ones, so it shouldn't be too tough to distinguish them, if you take the time to inspect.

 

Be careful, folks. (thumbs u

 

Andy

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

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Do you know what the metal composition of the counterfeits is? This is very interesting; I wonder why someone would want to counterfeit these? It would seem so much easier to counterfeit ingots and other non-currency bulk silver rather than an individual coin that is more nuanced in its design.

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thirdgreenham

thirdgreenham

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I'm going to file the edge of the one that I have, but if I remember correctly, I was told that they were copper. hm Actually, I have a buddy who has a spectrograph, so I'll ask him to test it for me next week.

 

 

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JJSingleton

JJSingleton

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Not even close. These should be very easy to detect. My question is how did the dealer get end up with these in his possession? He obviously had to know they were fakes.

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

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Not even close. These should be very easy to detect. My question is how did the dealer get end up with these in his possession? He obviously had to know they were fakes.

I can answer that, because we've gotten nailed by similar fakes. The sellers will often take a roll of genuine coins and swap out a few in the middle. Thus, cursory inspection, or even quickly rifling through the "roll" fails to reveal the fakes.

 

We keep some fakes on-hand for employees to look at and learn what to watch out for.

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mumu

mumu

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So the fakes are a better deal than the real, more silver. Even crooks are giving better deals than the US mint.

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Conder101

Conder101

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That would be true if they were actually silver which a strongly doubt.

 

I'm going to file the edge of the one that I have, but if I remember correctly, I was told that they were copper.

If they are they would have to be a LOT thicker than the ASE. Copper weighs almost 18% less per volume and these weigh MORE than the ASE. If they were the same size a copper piece would have to be 20% thicker, and since these are smaller in diameter you are probably talking almost 25% thicker.

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Crohnos01

Crohnos01

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The head looks like Bilbo Baggins!

 

Thanks for the "heads up" on these.... I know... sorry...

 

So are these fakes peculiar to 2011's or are there other years out there too?

 

I have to wonder as well, why bother to fake these?

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chinesecoinchaser-migratio

chinesecoinchaser-migratio

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Goofy obverse.

 

They could easily be slipped into solid date rolls without many noticing. Not many people weigh each eagle when they purchase, expecially if you are buying more than 10. They could pass. That's the scary part.

 

Lots of newbies buy eagles for some reason or another. I could easily see people buying these, they are good enough to be a threat.

 

 

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DrRich67

DrRich67

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Wow, there are so many things wrong with these. I might pay $1 for one of them just to have it and show it to some non-collector friends so they don't get caught. Anyone know where (if) they are showing up anywhere other than Canada?

 

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thirdgreenham

thirdgreenham

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Not a very convincing fake.

 

I thought that it wasn't too bad of a fake, in fact, fairly well done.

 

I was told about it before he handed it to me, so I knew that it was coming. When I looked at it, I immediately knew it looked "weird". Obviously, the head of liberty looks like a man's. Bilbo is pretty accurate. I wouldn't know that the stars were small, because I don't see enough of them to have all of the fine details memorized. Perhaps that's why they showed up in Canada, as we're all used to our maple, much more so than the American Eagle.

 

They were originally presented for sale to a Canadian dealer. I was told they were in capsules and then in 12 or 20 pocket pages. If the dealer was pretty busy or distracted in some way, he may not think about inspecting them closely. As I said, if the first sale was successful, the seller would then bring out some tubes.

 

For me, whatever I'm buying, I'm paying attention. I believer I would have stopped and compared with another eagle, because of the strangeness of the look. But when you're busy and need to get to the next guy.....

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thirdgreenham

thirdgreenham

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Not even close. These should be very easy to detect. My question is how did the dealer get end up with these in his possession? He obviously had to know they were fakes.

I can answer that, because we've gotten nailed by similar fakes. The sellers will often take a roll of genuine coins and swap out a few in the middle. Thus, cursory inspection, or even quickly rifling through the "roll" fails to reveal the fakes.

 

We keep some fakes on-hand for employees to look at and learn what to watch out for.

 

And this as well. If there's a couple or few mixed in a roll, the seller is doing well. After one or two rolls are checked, the seller knows he can bring in some more, as he's likely gained a small amount of trust from the first bunch.

 

Having fakes on hand is invaluable. 2c

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thirdgreenham

thirdgreenham

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That would be true if they were actually silver which a strongly doubt.

 

I'm going to file the edge of the one that I have, but if I remember correctly, I was told that they were copper.

If they are they would have to be a LOT thicker than the ASE. Copper weighs almost 18% less per volume and these weigh MORE than the ASE. If they were the same size a copper piece would have to be 20% thicker, and since these are smaller in diameter you are probably talking almost 25% thicker.

 

Yeah, they won't be silver at all.

 

Didn't really consider the density when I said copper. As someone a little later said, perhaps silver plated bronze. I've asked my buddy to test them and I'll report back here. (thumbs u

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thirdgreenham

thirdgreenham

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The head looks like Bilbo Baggins!

 

Thanks for the "heads up" on these.... I know... sorry...

 

So are these fakes peculiar to 2011's or are there other years out there too?

 

I have to wonder as well, why bother to fake these?

 

Why bother to fake these? $M0NEY$

 

There are fake $2 coins here in Canada. Why bother faking a $2 coin? Because it's profitable.

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Conder101

Conder101

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Didn't really consider the density when I said copper. As someone a little later said, perhaps silver plated bronze.

Copper and silver plated bronze would have almost identical densities. Copper is 8.92 bronze is 8.84 Silver is 10.5 You would be hard pressed to tell copper and bronze apart by specific gravity

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thirdgreenham

thirdgreenham

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Here's a couple of more pics that I took after I filed the coin today. I'm hoping to have the results of the spectrograph tomorrow.

 

fake_eagle_filed_1.jpg

fake_eagle_filed_2.jpg

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mkman123

mkman123

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scary in the fact that newbies might be able to tell the difference, also imagine someone putting 2-3 of these in a roll with 18-17 real ones.......after many many rolls, they are making a ton of money!

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thirdgreenham

thirdgreenham

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The spectrograph results came in and here's the composition:

 

...drum roll, please...

 

 

50% nickel

40% copper

10% zinc

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Conder101

Conder101

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A form of German Silver. Specific Gravity would be about 8.75 so it would have to be about 25% thicker. And it does look unusually thick in the edge pictures, although I really don't have anything for a direct comparison.

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BillJones

BillJones

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These things were probably made for the flea market trade. Any collector with a half way decent eye who has really looked at his ASEs could spot the problems with this thing. BUT that does not apply to the general public. I could see these things getting "salted" with rolls of real ASEs. That could add quite a bit a crook's profit margin.

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