Man O Man.... Blood will be shed over this one

[bsshog40]

 

 

 

I like it better now, but would still call it a technical 66.

I agree, there just seems to be too many hits on this coin to be a 67. The value of these drop pretty significantly from MS67 to MS66.

[RockMyAmadeus]

That's interesting toning. It looks more like toning on clads of the late 60's/early 70's.

[lehigh96]

I would want to see it in hand to convince myself it was natural toning - but no use, as I would never want to pay multiples of white for that coin, and I have to think that is what it will cost.

 

Many many multiples

 

Or not, I just looked at the price guide. I feel like I am in the twighlight zone. Why is an MS67 Roosevelt valued over $1,000?

 

very hard in full bands.... very very hard! 1957 is harder and than 1958 is like a witch hunt

 

Like I said, I feel like I am in the twighlight zone. The original strike designations were bad enough, new ones like this are just an excuse to make a rather common coin rare.

[physics-fan3.14]

Paul, FT has been designated on Roosies for as long as FBL on Franklins. Its nothing new.

[jerseycat10]

Paul, FT has been designated on Roosies for as long as FBL on Franklins. Its nothing new.

 

I am surprised about Paul's viewpoint considering his series features the 5FS and 6FS designations.

[coinman_23885]

Paul, FT has been designated on Roosies for as long as FBL on Franklins. Its nothing new.

 

This is not true. Roosevelt dimes were not given the FT/FB status until April of 2003 or so, I believe. This applies to both services. Both used FBL designations much earlier.

[lehigh96]

Paul, FT has been designated on Roosies for as long as FBL on Franklins. Its nothing new.

 

I am surprised about Paul's viewpoint considering his series features the 5FS and 6FS designations.

 

I don't like the full steps designation either but collectors have been seeking full steps since before I was born. And other than the war nickels, I have never paid an exorbitant premium of thousands of dollars for a full step Jefferson Nickel.

 

Furthermore, I consider the full bands (Mercury Dimes) and full steps (Jefferson Nickels) to have an actual effect on the visual impact of the coin and can understand their importance. IMO, full torch lines is a just a made up marketing tool that has very little to do with the quality of the coin.

[Keigwin]

Man O Man.... Blood will be shed over this one

 

I thought blood was spilled. Something else was shed.

 

Lovely Roosie, nonetheless.

Lance.

[MarkFeld]

Paul, FT has been designated on Roosies for as long as FBL on Franklins. Its nothing new.

 

This is not true. Roosevelt dimes were not given the FT/FB status until April of 2003 or so, I believe. This applies to both services. Both used FBL designations much earlier.

 

I don't know when the FT designation started being used, but I do know that it was (very) long after the FBL designation was in use.

[jom]

Furthermore, I consider the full bands (Mercury Dimes) and full steps (Jefferson Nickels) to have an actual effect on the visual impact of the coin and can understand their importance. IMO, full torch lines is a just a made up marketing tool that has very little to do with the quality of the coin.

 

I've never cared for ANY designations myself but I don't see how the Full Torch is any more or less a marketing tool than FBL, FB, FH or steps. I also don't think it's any different in terms of how it reflects the quality of the coin.

 

Paul, FT has been designated on Roosies for as long as FBL on Franklins. Its nothing new.

 

This is not true. Roosevelt dimes were not given the FT/FB status until April of 2003 or so, I believe. This applies to both services. Both used FBL designations much earlier.

 

I don't know when the FT designation started being used, but I do know that it was (very) long after the FBL designation was in use.

 

I was thinking that as well but 2003 seems a bit late. I could be wrong but didn't NGC start it well before PCGS...possibly in the mid-to-late 90s? Who's the Slab Historian around here?

 

jom

[lehigh96]

Furthermore, I consider the full bands (Mercury Dimes) and full steps (Jefferson Nickels) to have an actual effect on the visual impact of the coin and can understand their importance. IMO, full torch lines is a just a made up marketing tool that has very little to do with the quality of the coin.

 

I've never cared for ANY designations myself but I don't see how the Full Torch is any more or less a marketing tool than FBL, FB, FH or steps. I also don't think it's any different in terms of how it reflects the quality of the coin.

 

Paul, FT has been designated on Roosies for as long as FBL on Franklins. Its nothing new.

 

This is not true. Roosevelt dimes were not given the FT/FB status until April of 2003 or so, I believe. This applies to both services. Both used FBL designations much earlier.

 

 

I don't know when the FT designation started being used, but I do know that it was (very) long after the FBL designation was in use.

 

I was thinking that as well but 2003 seems a bit late. I could be wrong but didn't NGC start it well before PCGS...possibly in the mid-to-late 90s? Who's the Slab Historian around here?

 

jom

 

I thought it was an April fools joke by NGC. I see now that I was wrong. They created the designation on 4/1/2003.

 

Full Torch Designation Defined

 

With respect to the full bands and full steps, they are in an area of the coin that is very close to the center and when they are incomplete, it becomes very noticeable even upon a casual inspection. Before the FT designation was created, I don't think I ever noticed whether one of my Rosies had full torch or not and I collected Roosevelt Dimes. That is why I think those designations are different and more important than full torch.

[coinman_23885]

Furthermore, I consider the full bands (Mercury Dimes) and full steps (Jefferson Nickels) to have an actual effect on the visual impact of the coin and can understand their importance. IMO, full torch lines is a just a made up marketing tool that has very little to do with the quality of the coin.

 

I've never cared for ANY designations myself but I don't see how the Full Torch is any more or less a marketing tool than FBL, FB, FH or steps. I also don't think it's any different in terms of how it reflects the quality of the coin.

 

Paul, FT has been designated on Roosies for as long as FBL on Franklins. Its nothing new.

 

This is not true. Roosevelt dimes were not given the FT/FB status until April of 2003 or so, I believe. This applies to both services. Both used FBL designations much earlier.

 

I don't know when the FT designation started being used, but I do know that it was (very) long after the FBL designation was in use.

 

I was thinking that as well but 2003 seems a bit late. I could be wrong but didn't NGC start it well before PCGS...possibly in the mid-to-late 90s? Who's the Slab Historian around here?

 

jom

 

You left me wondering, so I went ahead and looked it up:

 

PCGS, April 1, 2003 (Source: http://www.pcgs.com/News/Pcgs-To-Add-Full-Bands-Designation-For-Roosevelt-Dimes)

 

NGC, April 13, 2003 (Source: http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?NewsletterNewsArticleID=426)

 

I knew it was sometime in the early 2000s but I sometimes mix it up with the date that NGC switched from the "FS" designation (for 6FS coins only) to designating 5FS and 6FS for Jefferson Nickels. I memorized these dates so that I could cherry pick older slabs. I have had a bit of success. Sometimes it pays to know your plastic!

[coinman_23885]

To answer Jason's comment/question: Per David Lange, NGC's Research Director, NGC began designating FBL Franklins in the early 1990s. I believe PCGS started around the same time as well.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3714773

[James_OldeTowne]

I've never cared for ANY designations myself but I don't see how the Full Torch is any more or less a marketing tool than FBL, FB, FH or steps. I also don't think it's any different in terms of how it reflects the quality of the coin.

(thumbs u

I was thinking that as well but 2003 seems a bit late. I could be wrong but didn't NGC start it well before PCGS...possibly in the mid-to-late 90s?

As someone above has confirmed, I remember the FT coming into play about ten years ago, and I distinctly remember PCGS announcing it first on or around April Fools Day. As I recall, some highly derisive threads popped up on PCGS' own forum wondering if it was in fact an April Fools prank.

 

I have multiple Roosie collections in progress, and could not remotely care less whether one or all of mine have a "full torch".

[lehigh96]

 

I have multiple Roosie collections in progress, and could not remotely care less whether one or all of mine have a "full torch".

 

If you had a Mercury Dime or Jefferson Nickel collection, would you care at all about full bands or full steps?

[mumu]

Up to 6$...here come the heavy hitters.

[James_OldeTowne]

I have multiple Roosie collections in progress, and could not remotely care less whether one or all of mine have a "full torch".

If you had a Mercury Dime or Jefferson Nickel collection, would you care at all about full bands or full steps?

I have one Mercury dime collection, and several Jefferson nickel sets, including one particularly fantastic collection (many coins I bought from Hoot), and in neither case do I care one bit about the designation(s).

 

Strangely enough, part of my core slab collection does have coins with some such designations, but I did not pay any outrageous premiums for them.

 

Edited to add: I have a good friend whom I have been helping with a Standing Liberty quarter set and he loves the full-head designation, so for that one series I have been paying strong premiums on his behalf. But my SLQ set is only AU.

[mumu]

Damn, I forgot the smiley. Now everyone will think I am being mean again...

 

[rrantique]

Been quite a while since I have heard Hoot mentioned. Has anyone talked to him lately? Paging Dr. Hoot.

[jom]

Yeah, I was way off on the FT thing. What I might have remembered is collectors talking about the possibility TPGs using it. I dunno...but whatever the case the FBL was well before....

 

 

I have multiple Roosie collections in progress, and could not remotely care less whether one or all of mine have a "full torch".

 

If you had a Mercury Dime or Jefferson Nickel collection, would you care at all about full bands or full steps?

 

Good question. I suppose it depends what your goal was when you started collecting the series. If you just tried to get nice examples of the coin then I suppose you wouldn't care.

 

I used to collect Mercs and one thing I learned was that many times a "FB" coin was not a fully struck coins...so why pay the premium? I also learned that this "FB" designation had a tendency to deflate the values of non-FB coins to the point of absurdity. I think it is because in the coin collecting realm the MARKETING by dealers etc. have given FB their attention but ignore the non-designated coins because there isn't as much profit in them. Maybe I'm being harsh but I think that has a lot to do with it.

 

For example, I own a non-FB 1919-S. The 19-S is still (as far as I know from pop reports) is the rarest Merc in mint state (all coins not just FB). But does anyone care? Probably not as my coin still is only worth $1200 or so. But yet the coin is very nearly FB and fully struck elsewhere. With just a little metal in the bands it could be a $10K coin. But it's nowhere near that. So are the FB values inflated or is mine deflated?

 

jom

[tejas1836]

Been quite a while since I have heard Hoot mentioned. Has anyone talked to him lately? Paging Dr. Hoot.

 

A few weeks ago I saw that he was here when I checked to see who was online. However, a search showed that his last post was 7/22/12.