Is this a case of a shill bidding account on Ebay or am I being unfair ?

[MarkFeld]

 

 

 

Bidder goncalves2011 sure seems to like seller costadj2010

[bsshog40]

It doesn't look right to me but I have to be honest as I don't quite understand what shill bidding actually is. I also don't like when bids show as "private". That makes me suspicious also.

[RWB]

Lots of coin and shirt buying - looks suspicious.

[MarkFeld]

It doesn't look right to me but I have to be honest as I don't quite understand what shill bidding actually is. I also don't like when bids show as "private". That makes me suspicious also.

 

It appears that one person is using two different accounts on Ebay. And that one of the accounts is used to bid on items listed under the other account. That bidding can serve to drive up the price of the items that are being sold and is against Ebay rules.

 

Per Ebay:

 

"Shill bidding happens when anyone—including family, friends, roommates, employees, or online connections—bids on an item with the intent to artificially increase its price or desirability. In addition, members cannot bid on or buy items in order to artificially increase a seller's Feedback or to improve the item's search standing.

 

Make sure you follow these guidelines. If you don’t, you may be subject to a range of actions, including limits of your buying and selling privileges and suspension of your account. Shill bidding is also illegal in many places and can carry severe penalties."

 

Very recently, I bid on an item listed for sale by seller costadj2010. here

 

Bidder goncalves2011 "won" the item. Yet, only two days later, the identical item was again listed for sale by the same seller here

 

When someone uses a shill account to bid up the price of his own items, sometimes the shill bidder ends up as the high bidder. And, since the winning bidder doesn't really want (to win) the item, it is relisted.

[bsshog40]

Thanks Mark!! This is why I don't bid anymore on "Private Bidder" auctions either.

[Crohnos01]

Nice catch Mark. If this isn't a shill set up, I will eat my hat....well... I would if I actually had a hat. I assume you have contacted eBay?

[MarkFeld]

Nice catch Mark. If this isn't a shill set up, I will eat my hat....well... I would if I actually had a hat. I assume you have contacted eBay?

 

Thanks. Yes, I have contacted Ebay.

[e1cnr]

You missed where they won it here as well

Elgin clised 10/23

 

 

Maybe you could ask the seller what is wrong with the Elgin, as goncalves buys it and quickly returns it and buys it again......

 

just like his

1834 NGC Capped Bust Half Dollar AU 53 OVERTON 107**KEY DATE IN SERIES...

1942/1 PCGS Mercury Dime PCGS GENUINE**KEY DATE IN SERIES+PHENOMENAL TONED COLOR...

1925 D PCGS $2.5 GOLD Indian Quarter Eagle PCGS MS 62 **ATTRACTIVE GOLD COIN...

 

[MarkFeld]

You missed where they won it here as well

Elgin clised 10/23

 

 

Maybe you could ask the seller what is wrong with the Elgin, as goncalves buys it and quickly returns it and buys it again......

 

just like his

1834 NGC Capped Bust Half Dollar AU 53 OVERTON 107**KEY DATE IN SERIES...

1942/1 PCGS Mercury Dime PCGS GENUINE**KEY DATE IN SERIES+PHENOMENAL TONED COLOR...

1925 D PCGS $2.5 GOLD Indian Quarter Eagle PCGS MS 62 **ATTRACTIVE GOLD COIN...

 

Thanks - I have sent an additional report to Ebay.

[BKW]

 

So glad there are people out there like you monitoring ebay and reporting this kind of unscrupulous dealing (thumbs u

 

 

[Kurtdog]

It doesn't look right to me but I have to be honest as I don't quite understand what shill bidding actually is. I also don't like when bids show as "private". That makes me suspicious also.

Shill bidding is but a harmless nuisance if you know what you're doing and you don't let yourself get carried away. It will catch a pigeon, though, given enough time, if it goes unchecked. I hope I don't have to explain what a pigeon is, .

[WinstonWare]

Yup. Good catch.

[MarkFeld]

So glad there are people out there like you monitoring ebay and reporting this kind of unscrupulous dealing (thumbs u

 

 

Thanks.

 

I caught this one by accident. It started out when a coin was listed for sale, just two days after having supposedly sold. I recognized it, because I had bid on it previously. I contacted the seller to let him know the same coin was up for sale again and received a quick (Thank you for letting me know - I will take care of it) reply.

 

I became suspicious when the new listing was not ended, and I hate liars and being lied to. When I checked the seller's feedback on Toolhaus.org, I came across the name of the (apparent) shill. Once I had that, it was easy to see the connection.

 

I initially give people the benefit of the doubt. But in this case, it certainly appears that the seller is frequently and blatantly using a shill. In one instance, to the point where the shill bidder won the identical coin four times in a fairly short period of time!

[mtnstyne]

Mark, they also list towns only 12 miles apart as the selling location. Just more food for thought...

[e1cnr]

eBay doesn't seem to care as long as final value fees are paid. eBay gets concerned when mutual cancellation is used to bypass reserve fees. It will be interesting to see if either of those accounts get NARU'd from your report Mark.

 

 

 

[brg5658]

Mark, very good catch; I'm 100% sure this is shill bidding.

 

If you need another example check out the 1942/1 PCGS Mercury Dime described below:

 

Oct 23 to goncalves2011 here (item 271082617345).

 

Nov 1 again to goncalves2011 here (item 281010423228).

 

And, now it's up for auction a 3rd time here (item 271098735007).

 

If eBay can't figure these out as shills, then I'd fathom to say that there is no hope for eBay. If they really cared about this kind of stuff, they would be able to write a VERY simple algorithm to determine that a seller had sold the same item to the same purchaser twice. The full PCGS certification information is in all three of the listings above, so their "screening" would easily be able to identify this kind of event.

 

-Brandon

 

[michael]

Nice catch Mark. If this isn't a shill set up, I will eat my hat....well... I would if I actually had a hat.

 

100% agreed...............................................

[Conder101]

I haven't the auctions to make sure it is the same coin but he has purchased a 1939 MS-66 Mercury dime from him four times.

 

I kinda take it back. They were four different coins, but three of them are currently back up for sale again. Two of the ones sold on 10/31 and the one sold on 11/05.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Mark, very good catch; I'm 100% sure this is shill bidding.

 

If you need another example check out the 1942/1 PCGS Mercury Dime described below:

 

Oct 23 to goncalves2011 here (item 271082617345).

 

Nov 1 again to goncalves2011 here (item 281010423228).

 

And, now it's up for auction a 3rd time here (item 271098735007).

 

If eBay can't figure these out as shills, then I'd fathom to say that there is no hope for eBay. If they really cared about this kind of stuff, they would be able to write a VERY simple algorithm to determine that a seller had sold the same item to the same purchaser twice. The full PCGS certification information is in all three of the listings above, so their "screening" would easily be able to identify this kind of event.

 

-Brandon

 

Possible it is OCD?

Nah, I guess not -never mind.

[Dudley the 1st]

Shill bidding has been around since the times when cave men traded their cave women. I doubt EBAY will actually do anything to stop this practice.

[MarkFeld]

Shill bidding has been around since the times when cave men traded their cave women. I doubt EBAY will actually do anything to stop this practice.

 

I have seen them take action, under what looked to be similar circumstances.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Shill bidding has been around since the times when cave men traded their cave women. I doubt EBAY will actually do anything to stop this practice.

 

I have seen them take action, under what looked to be similar circumstances.

 

You mean the cave men?

I understand you have a few years under your belt, but.....really?

[Catbert]

Shill bidding has been around since the times when cave men traded their cave women. I doubt EBAY will actually do anything to stop this practice.

 

I have seen them take action, under what looked to be similar circumstances.

 

You mean the cave men?

I understand you have a few years under your belt, but.....really?

 

Mark has been known to smell like a cave man........

[Kurtdog]

Shill bidding has been around since the times when cave men traded their cave women. I doubt EBAY will actually do anything to stop this practice.

I have seen them take action, under what looked to be similar circumstances.

You mean the cave men?

I understand you have a few years under your belt, but.....really?

Mark has been known to smell like a cave man........

I feel sorry for cavemen. They never get any respect.

[praedator-migration]

I believe Ebay does take action on cases like these now and again, but only with the small fry sellers. They will turn a blind eye if the seller does enough business. I can think of one large seller in particular that uses shill bidders on nearly all of their auctions. This seller is probably well known to most posters here. I have reported them as have countless others but nothing is ever done to stop it.

I think of it as micro market manipulation. I simply do not bid on their items, or I bid a price I am comfortable paying and leave it at that. Shill bidding is annoying and against the spirit of a true auction, but like others have said it has been and always will be a part of auctions.

I greatly appreciate Mr. Feld and others looking out for the general Ebay buyer and reporting and posting about instances such as this.