Here's a CAC question...

[mumu]

A gold bean coin is deemed undergraded by 1 full point or more. At least that is the general consensus. Stop me here and correct me if that is not accurate.

 

If not moving on, does the gold bean signify that the coin is not only undergraded by 1 point but once at the next grade level it is also in the upper 10% of THAT grade? So could a gold beaned MS 64 morgan simply be a run of the mill 65 or would it guarantee that not only would it go 65 but also green bean at 65?

 

I dont see where that is explained anywhere on the CAC site though I may have missed it but isnt it theoretically possible then that the gold beaned 64 morgan gets cracked out, regraded 65 and then failes CAC green?

[wheat'swheats]

ask J A

wheat

[MarkFeld]

A gold bean coin is deemed undergraded by 1 full point or more. At least that is the general consensus. Stop me here and correct me if that is not accurate.

 

If not moving on, does the gold bean signify that the coin is not only undergraded by 1 point but once at the next grade level it is also in the upper 10% of THAT grade? So could a gold beaned MS 64 morgan simply be a run of the mill 65 or would it guarantee that not only would it go 65 but also green bean at 65?

 

I dont see where that is explained anywhere on the CAC site though I may have missed it but isnt it theoretically possible then that the gold beaned 64 morgan gets cracked out, regraded 65 and then failes CAC green?

 

A gold stickered CAC coin signifies one that is under-graded by at least a point, according to CAC standards. Thus, if a coin is in a 65 holder and receives a gold sticker, the coin could theoretically grade 66 or even 67 in the eyes of CAC.

 

But whatever the grade (opinion), the coin would be solid for the grade (an "A" or "B" coin, but not a "C" coin), as per CAC standards. The 10% qualifier you mentioned has nothing to do with it.

 

Due to the inconsistency and subjectivity in grading, yes, a gold stickered MS64 coin coin that gets upgraded to 65 could fail to receive a green sticker.

[mumu]

A gold bean coin is deemed undergraded by 1 full point or more. At least that is the general consensus. Stop me here and correct me if that is not accurate.

 

If not moving on, does the gold bean signify that the coin is not only undergraded by 1 point but once at the next grade level it is also in the upper 10% of THAT grade? So could a gold beaned MS 64 morgan simply be a run of the mill 65 or would it guarantee that not only would it go 65 but also green bean at 65?

 

I dont see where that is explained anywhere on the CAC site though I may have missed it but isnt it theoretically possible then that the gold beaned 64 morgan gets cracked out, regraded 65 and then failes CAC green?

 

A gold stickered CAC coin signifies one that is under-graded by at least a point, according to CAC standards. Thus, if a coin is in a 65 holder and receives a gold sticker, the coin could theoretically grade 66 or even 67 in the eyes of CAC.

 

But whatever the grade (opinion), the coin would be solid for the grade (an "A" or "B" coin, but not a "C" coin), as per CAC standards. The 10% qualifier you mentioned has nothing to do with it.

 

Due to the inconsistency and subjectivity in grading, yes, a gold stickered MS64 coin coin that gets upgraded to 65 could fail to receive a green sticker.

 

I didnt mean to type 10%...I had a brain freeze with the PCGS/NGC +s on the 10%. But I think my question and your answer still made it thru. Thanks.

 

Anyway this leads back to its better to buy a properly graded green stickered CAC coin than to pay upgrade money for the gold sticker...from a pure coin collecting persepective.

[mkman123]

Mumu, if I'm correct even though a coin gets a gold bean,.it could fail to even upgrade. Pcgs or ngc could disagree if you resubmit and like marc said, it could upgrade and fail to get a green bean......kind of weird....

[TomB]

My understanding is exactly as Mark has described. That is, a gold stickered coin would be equal to at least a green sticker of the next highest grade. The question of purchasing a green sticker coin in one grade vs. buying a gold sticker coin in a grade below would of course be a personal one that should be made on a coin-by-coin basis.

[AnkurJ]

Unless it was a truly rare coin that is seldom offered, I would rather have a properly graded green stickered coin than pay a major premium for a gold stickered one.

[Walkerfan]

Unless it was a truly rare coin that is seldom offered, I would rather have a properly graded green stickered coin than pay a major premium for a gold stickered one.

 

I'd rather pay the premium for and have the NGC or PCGS extra point rather than paying the premium for the gold bean.

[coinman_23885]

Unless it was a truly rare coin that is seldom offered, I would rather have a properly graded green stickered coin than pay a major premium for a gold stickered one.

 

I'd rather pay the premium for and have the NGC or PCGS extra point rather than paying the premium for the gold bean.

 

I would rather have the technically superior coin, whichever one that happened to be provided that the pricing is proportional and fair. I wouldn't pay an exorbitant premium for a gold bean unless the quality of the coin warranted it (i.e. because of the coin itself and not the sticker).

[Walkerfan]

Unless it was a truly rare coin that is seldom offered, I would rather have a properly graded green stickered coin than pay a major premium for a gold stickered one.

 

I'd rather pay the premium for and have the NGC or PCGS extra point rather than paying the premium for the gold bean.

 

I would rather have the technically superior coin, whichever one that happened to be provided that the pricing is proportional and fair. I wouldn't pay an exorbitant premium for a gold bean unless the quality of the coin warranted it (i.e. because of the coin itself and not the sticker).

 

Yes that's true. I have MS 63s & 64s that I wouldn't trade for other certain 'higher graded' pieces.

[Walkerfan]

Unless it was a truly rare coin that is seldom offered, I would rather have a properly graded green stickered coin than pay a major premium for a gold stickered one.

 

I'd rather pay the premium for and have the NGC or PCGS extra point rather than paying the premium for the gold bean.

 

I would rather have the technically superior coin, whichever one that happened to be provided that the pricing is proportional and fair. I wouldn't pay an exorbitant premium for a gold bean unless the quality of the coin warranted it (i.e. because of the coin itself and not the sticker).

 

I guess that my point is (from a financial perspective) that if the coin was TRULY PQ and deserving of a higher grade, then I'd rather have the extra point rather than the gold bean.

[jom]

Unless it was a truly rare coin that is seldom offered, I would rather have a properly graded green stickered coin than pay a major premium for a gold stickered one.

 

I'd rather pay the premium for and have the NGC or PCGS extra point rather than paying the premium for the gold bean.

 

I would rather have the technically superior coin, whichever one that happened to be provided that the pricing is proportional and fair. I wouldn't pay an exorbitant premium for a gold bean unless the quality of the coin warranted it (i.e. because of the coin itself and not the sticker).

 

I guess that my point is (from a financial perspective) that if the coin was TRULY PQ and deserving of a higher grade, then I'd rather have the extra point rather than the gold bean.

 

I suppose I'd rather just have the coin.

 

Actually, whether the coin is labeled MS65 (green) or MS64 (gold) doesn't make any difference to me....all else equal. There does seem to be a premium for gold CAC coins (who knows how long that will last?) so I can see why it could be assumed you might get a better value with MS65 (green).

 

I only own ONE gold CAC coin and it was one I had sent in (see my Avatar) so who am I to say about all of this...it just depends on the coin.

 

jom

[mumu]

My understanding is exactly as Mark has described. That is, a gold stickered coin would be equal to at least a green sticker of the next highest grade. The question of purchasing a green sticker coin in one grade vs. buying a gold sticker coin in a grade below would of course be a personal one that should be made on a coin-by-coin basis.

 

Hmm, looing back at Mark's post I may have mis taken his answer the first time around which now leads me to believe my question is not clear.

 

I realize that because of inconsistency anything can happen including the sam coin in the same holder failing CAC and then passing next time. But in technical terms can a coin be an A or a B in a 64, because it is in fact a 65, but once in a 65 holder no longer be an A or a B and therefore not CAC worthy.

 

So in a real world example, the 64 morgan gets a gold bean. It cracked out into a 65 holder and sent back to CAC. CAC remembers the coin but feels that as a 64 it was a gold bean because it was really a 65 therefore clearly a 64 A coin, but as a 65 its low end 65 C?

 

Or as Tom eluded is the gold cac a guarantee, in ideal technical terms, a green 65.

[coinman_23885]

My understanding is exactly as Mark has described. That is, a gold stickered coin would be equal to at least a green sticker of the next highest grade. The question of purchasing a green sticker coin in one grade vs. buying a gold sticker coin in a grade below would of course be a personal one that should be made on a coin-by-coin basis.

 

Hmm, looing back at Mark's post I may have mis taken his answer the first time around which now leads me to believe my question is not clear.

 

I realize that because of inconsistency anything can happen including the sam coin in the same holder failing CAC and then passing next time. But in technical terms can a coin be an A or a B in a 64, because it is in fact a 65, but once in a 65 holder no longer be an A or a B and therefore not CAC worthy.

 

So in a real world example, the 64 morgan gets a gold bean. It cracked out into a 65 holder and sent back to CAC. CAC remembers the coin but feels that as a 64 it was a gold bean because it was really a 65 therefore clearly a 64 A coin, but as a 65 its low end 65 C?

 

Or as Tom eluded is the gold cac a guarantee, in ideal technical terms, a green 65.

 

This is my understanding:

 

If a coin is graded MS65, coins that are MS65.5 to MS65.9+++ or so will green bean. A gold sticker implies that the coin is at least one full point ahead, so a MS65 with a gold bean should be MS66.5 to MS66.9 or better (the gold bean can signify a multiple point upgrade). I would call J.A. and ask him, but I think that Mark Feld and Tom B are right on this.

[TomB]

I think I understand your question now and will respond as per my understanding of CAC, but please make note that I am not affiliated with CAC (other than being a dealer submitter) and I might be incorrect in how I am interpreting your question and/or CAC's policies.

 

Let's say you have some theoretical coin in an MS64 holder, but the "true" grade is MS65 and the coin is actually on the lower end of MS65. In this case we will call the coin an MS65C and it resides in an MS64 holder. My impression or understanding of CAC policies is that such a coin would receive a green sticker in the MS64 holder because it is clearly at least an MS64B, but that it would not earn a gold sticker at CAC beause it is not at least an MS65B. In this instance, if the coin were then regraded and came back in an MS65 holder, which might be the "proper" holder, then it would fail the CAC evaluation as an MS65.

 

For a coin in an MS64 holder to receive a gold CAC sticker it would need to be at least a B or A coin for the grade above, which would make it at least MS65B quality. Such a coin, if regraded and placed into an MS65 holder, would then earn a green CAC sticker upon the next evaluation.

 

Please note that this is all theoretical since we are giving a level of accuracy and precision to both the TPG and CAC that might not be sustainable in real life.

[mkman123]

With gold bean fever, its cheaper to just buy the next higher grade in a green bean than a lower grade with a gold bean

[Mozin]

Nearly all my CAC Gold Bean coins have the spread up to the next grade very small. Therefore, I will not submit to PCGS for the upgrades. Besides, someone may be collecting Gold Beans, and pay me more for the Gold Beans than the higher grade.

[Nutmeg Coin]

I was thinking the same thing; but if you get a coin badly undergraded that gold bean option is a home run!

[newprepper]

I'm really confused here, why are you paying multiple companies to grade the same coin? Why doesn't CAC just go into business initially grading coins? Why is everybody so hung up on the top tier grading companies if they are not good enough to get it right? So 10 yrs from now when todayss "69" becomes a "70" everybody will rush to CAC saying put a sticker on this!!! The standards of yesterday were wrong!! I don't understand.

[michael]

does the gold bean signify that the coin is not only undergraded by 1 point but once at the next grade level it is also in the upper 10% of THAT grade?

 

correct

 

for example an ms 64 gold stickered coin means it is not only an ms65 but a high end 65 an A coin

 

so if a gold stickered coin upgraded to ms65 it would get a green sticker

 

now a gold stickered ms64 could also mean ms66 too

[mumu]

OK so that leads up to the next obvious question, would a coin in an MS 64 holder that is really an MS66C, get a gold bean?

[Walkerfan]

OK so that leads up to the next obvious question, would a coin in an MS 64 holder that is really an MS66C, get a gold bean?

 

In a Word, 'YES', because it is above and beyond a MS 65 it is AT least a high end 65.

[TomB]

OK so that leads up to the next obvious question, would a coin in an MS 64 holder that is really an MS66C, get a gold bean?

 

Why not? It is at least high end for the grade above its current grade designation.

[mumu]

OK so that leads up to the next obvious question, would a coin in an MS 64 holder that is really an MS66C, get a gold bean?

 

Why not? It is at least high end for the grade above its current grade designation.

 

Well then that leads back to my initial question, could a gold bean fail to bean in a higher grade, on technical merit, not grading variations. The answer in this case would be yes.

[TomB]

OK so that leads up to the next obvious question, would a coin in an MS 64 holder that is really an MS66C, get a gold bean?

 

Why not? It is at least high end for the grade above its current grade designation.

 

Well then that leads back to my initial question, could a gold bean fail to bean in a higher grade, on technical merit, not grading variations. The answer in this case woul dbe yes.

 

In the case you had originally asked about in this thread, the coin went up one grade, but now you are requiring that the coin go up two grades. During the course of the conversation you have changed the parameters of the question and this can lead to confusing replies.

[wheat'swheats]

OK so that leads up to the next obvious question, would a coin in an MS 64 holder that is really an MS66C, get a gold bean?

 

Why not? It is at least high end for the grade above its current grade designation.

 

Well then that leads back to my initial question, could a gold bean fail to bean in a higher grade, on technical merit, not grading variations. The answer in this case woul dbe yes.

 

I doubt that very seriously. My 14 s was regraded and down graded from ANACS 64 rb to a 63 bn It got a gold bean, and I have no doubt if I got it regraded back to 64 rb it would get a green bean.

wheat

[mumu]

OK so that leads up to the next obvious question, would a coin in an MS 64 holder that is really an MS66C, get a gold bean?

 

Why not? It is at least high end for the grade above its current grade designation.

 

Well then that leads back to my initial question, could a gold bean fail to bean in a higher grade, on technical merit, not grading variations. The answer in this case woul dbe yes.

 

In the case you had originally asked about in this thread, the coin went up one grade, but now you are requiring that the coin go up two grades. During the course of the conversation you have changed the parameters of the question and this can lead to confusing replies.

 

The question is valid whether you go up 1 grade or 2. But it is easier to isolate using the 2 grade example. Mark's reply brought the 2 grade situation into the equation. I consider the 1 grade version of the question answered and it makes sense. But it is not a complete answer since the 2 grade situation is possible.