1924 rainbow pece dollar that belonged to TR found

[truthteller]

Looks the title on that coin will be forever in question, killing all potential sales.

 

 

TRUTH

 

Absolutely. While I would originally have some interest in the coin, I don't have any intentions of bidding on it for fear of the legal ramifications should the title be contested. From the new emerging details across the street, the whole thing looks fishy/potentially slimy to me. I wouldn't want to be involved at all with it at this point.

 

While one party might owe the other a return of a deposit, I don't believe that would effect title to the coin.

 

My understanding is that if one party of the transaction files a UCC (uniform Commerical Code) lien, then the title cannot pass and is recorded as such. This is why many auction houses make a UCC filing to determine if there is any liens on any coins before they can give some advances.

 

 

TRUTH

[WoodenJefferson]

This is like an episode of General Hospital...all we need now is a Coin Doctor thrown in to stitch this all together.

[copper toning]

If TR had the coin all along then IN would know. As the coin would have the signature.

[e1cnr]

I have never heard of someone filing a a UCC (uniform Commerical Code) lien on a coin in a slab worth $2K or maybe less.

 

Does this actually happen?

[$ilverHawk]

I read this entire thread and am firmly convinced that everyone is posting in some type of code. Would someone clearly state exactly what the issue is???

 

Some of us do not post or read posts ATS.

 

As Physics 3.1 posted--exactly what is going on?

 

Carl

[KeeNoooo]

If TR had the coin all along then IN would know. As the coin would have the signature.

 

i have no idea who any of these people are but i have heard that there have been incidents where mailmen are supposed to get signatures, and do not. Anyone ever had this happen to them or someone they know?

I was told this by a dealer in my area and am curious if its true......

[coinman_23885]

I read this entire thread and am firmly convinced that everyone is posting in some type of code. Would someone clearly state exactly what the issue is???

 

Some of us do not post or read posts ATS.

 

As Physics 3.1 posted--exactly what is going on?

 

Carl

 

Synopsis: A seller ("TR") sends a coin on approval to a prospective buyer ("IN" or "Indiana Nationals") for an agreed upon $2,000. The coin in question is the rainbow toned Peace Dollar that has been commented on. IN makes a $200 down payment. Upon receipt of the said coin, IN decides he does not want to keep the coin. Instead of insuring it for the agreed price of $2,000, IN only insures the coin for $300. The coin was lost (apparently as determined by the United States Postal Service) for several months, and now it magically appears this week on eBay. It has not been conclusively determined that TR is the seller, although some circumstantial evidence suggests strongly that it might be. IN still hasn't received his deposit (allegedly).

 

The questions presented are:

 

1. Can the coin be sold with clear title, and what legal ramifications, if any, would an innocent buyer face if buying the said coin? Is this influenced by the filing of a USPS insured mail claim for the lost package? What claim, if any, does IN have over the potential title?

 

2. Did TR receive the coin back, and if so, how long has TR had this coin?

 

3. Where is IN's deposit (if TR did indeed receive the coin back)?

 

[e1cnr]

Started half a year ago ATS, first post ->

Well I sent out a coin to a buyer for an agreed value of $2000. Buyer was not happy with the coin and said it only looked like a coin worth a couple of hundred dollars. Needless to say I said return it. So he supposedly sends it back but with priority mail with NO tracking and only $300 insurance!!!! Well...USPS lost the package and I'm severely pissed off. Is it the buyers responsibility to pay for the lost item for what we agreed on or what I paid for it? I bought it a few years ago and got a great deal on it and think it would sell for more now. Opinions??

 

 

started a bunch of accusations, name calling, whos responsible for what, etc

thread ATS

 

now the 'missing' coin showed up for sale

[WoodenJefferson]

In the old days, not so long ago, we wouldn't be bickering over trivial things like this on a interweb chat board, we'd come and get it out of your hide.

 

Do people do that anymore?

 

Not thugs from the mob, but face to face.

[BAJJERFAN]

If TR had the coin all along then IN would know. As the coin would have the signature.

 

How would he know since it was apparently never signed for. Indiana can go down to his PO tomorrow and have them check the tracking number again.

[coinman_23885]

If TR had the coin all along then IN would know. As the coin would have the signature.

 

How would he know since it was apparently never signed for. Indiana can go down to his PO tomorrow and have them check the tracking number again.

 

This is exactly what Indiana Nationals should do. I wonder if the coin will show as delivered or whether there will be any evidence of further activity within the Post Office.

[BAJJERFAN]

The USPS would have done that as part of the claim investigation.

[e1cnr]

Does anyone know if a USPS claim was filed? and if so, how?

[indiananationals-migration]

ok i need to post this as back when this all went down TR told me his mailman was a good friend and even though it showed he had left a pickup paper for him on the usps website ...after questioning he claimed to remember nothing about the package ....my thought is if this was ur friend wouldnt u know that there was a package ....im not going to accuse anyone but i felt all along this was a shady deal and yes i will be going to the PO in the moring and filing charges

[indiananationals-migration]

im hearing someone over here purchased the coin today all i have to say is make sure u can get ur money back cause when u see it in hand u are going to freak as it looks horrible compared to the pictures i just hate to see somone else have a negative deal with this coin

[coinman_23885]

ok i need to post this as back when this all went down TR told me his mailman was a good friend and even though it showed he had left a pickup paper for him on the usps website ...after questioning he claimed to remember nothing about the package ....my thought is if this was ur friend wouldnt u know that there was a package ....im not going to accuse anyone but i felt all along this was a shady deal and yes i will be going to the PO in the moring and filing charges

 

Since you mailed the coin, did USPS ever compensate you?

 

Also as an FYI, you cannot go the Post Office to file charges. You would simply report it to them, they would likely investigate, and if a U.S. District Attorney thinks there is enough evidence to proceed, then they would file the charges.

 

And for the record, I have trouble believing that TR would actually relay this information to you, especially if the mailman is his friend. This would only raise suspicion, and I don't think a guilty person would likely do this. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Also you posted an insurance number across the street; however, you can not look up packages online using the USPS website. Only USPS can track this internally.

[indiananationals-migration]

checked it the coin was never delivered ..they are sending me paperwork to help them file a fraud case

[indiananationals-migration]

if anyone knows TR he needs to contact me right away before he ends up in major hot water

[FishyOne]

im hearing someone over here purchased the coin today all i have to say is make sure u can get ur money back cause when u see it in hand u are going to freak as it looks horrible compared to the pictures i just hate to see somone else have a negative deal with this coin

 

Do you know who bought it?

[mkman123]

Get your popcorn out.......

[WoodenJefferson]

checked it the coin was never delivered ..they are sending me paperwork to help them file a fraud case

 

Running an auction on e-bay does not constitute whether or not you have a particular item in your possession. If questioned, all they need to do is say they ran the auction by mistake, noticed that mistake and took the auction down. If there is no paper or tracking trail, the USPS cannot prove a thing.

[coinman_23885]

checked it the coin was never delivered ..they are sending me paperwork to help them file a fraud case

 

Running an auction on e-bay does not constitute whether or not you have a particular item in your possession. If questioned, all they need to do is say they ran the auction by mistake, noticed that mistake and took the auction down. If there is no paper or tracking trail, the USPS cannot prove a thing.

 

But there were also allegations that the buyer was shopping around to sell the piece, and admitted to some people that he had the coin. If this is true and these people are willing to testify (or are forced to testify by subpoena), it is probably admissible, and this would probably be enough to ensure a conviction when viewed in light of the circumstantial evidence.

[BAJJERFAN]

Another tidbit not considered is that when IN filed his claim and the usps investigated, TR probably had to sign a form saying that he never received the item. TR will indeed have some serious splainin to do.

[PCcoins]

I figured TR had the coin the whole time, since the buyer sent the coin back with no tracking info all TR had to do was say he never got the coin and presto, he gets his coin back and keeps the $200.

 

This is all speculation of course

[19Lyds]

Another tidbit not considered is that when IN filed his claim and the usps investigated, TR probably had to sign a form saying that he never received the item. TR will indeed have some serious splainin to do.

I think that this entire fiasco should be handled between TonedRarities and Indiananationals.

 

If folks have information to share, it can be handled via PM since the subject matter always ends up as a one sided trial by a bunch of prosecuting attorney wannabees.

 

Why Indiananatiionals decided to re-start this bickering-fued over here is beyond me.

[MarkFeld]

Another tidbit not considered is that when IN filed his claim and the usps investigated, TR probably had to sign a form saying that he never received the item. TR will indeed have some serious splainin to do.

I think that this entire fiasco should be handled between TonedRarities and Indiananationals.

 

If folks have information to share, it can be handled via PM since the subject matter always ends up as a one sided trial.

 

Why Indiananatiionals decided to re-start this bickering-fued over here is beyond me.

 

If he didn't receive any funds from the post office and he didn't receive his deposit back from the seller, it's not beyond me why he would "re-start this bickering-feud over here". Especially, now that there is evidence that the seller has the coin.

[BAJJERFAN]

I figured TR had the coin the whole time, since the buyer sent the coin back with no tracking info all TR had to do was say he never got the coin and presto, he gets his coin back and keeps the $200.

 

This is all speculation of course

 

He insured it and with insurance there is a tracking number. .The tracking number has been posted here and anyone is free to go down to their PO and have them run it.There may be a charge tho.

[19Lyds]

Another tidbit not considered is that when IN filed his claim and the usps investigated, TR probably had to sign a form saying that he never received the item. TR will indeed have some serious splainin to do.

I think that this entire fiasco should be handled between TonedRarities and Indiananationals.

 

If folks have information to share, it can be handled via PM since the subject matter always ends up as a one sided trial.

 

Why Indiananatiionals decided to re-start this bickering-fued over here is beyond me.

 

If he didn't receive any funds from the post office and he didn't receive his deposit back from the seller, it's not beyond me why he would "re-start this bickering-feud over here". Especially, now that there is evidence that the seller has the coin.

Thats the whole point Mark, nobody knows for sure exactly what happened!

Both of these folks fail miserably in the communications department.

 

Indiananationals is whining about a forums personna when he should be taking action on his own. He does have a name to associate with this forum name and he does have an address.

 

He needs to address his concerns with the USPS.

 

From what I understand, the person that purchased the insurance is the person that files the clain should the package not be delivered and since Indiana sent the coin with minimal insurance, isn't Indiana the one thats supposed to file the insurance claim?

[BAJJERFAN]

Another tidbit not considered is that when IN filed his claim and the usps investigated, TR probably had to sign a form saying that he never received the item. TR will indeed have some serious splainin to do.

I think that this entire fiasco should be handled between TonedRarities and Indiananationals.

 

If folks have information to share, it can be handled via PM since the subject matter always ends up as a one sided trial.

 

Why Indiananatiionals decided to re-start this bickering-fued over here is beyond me.

 

If he didn't receive any funds from the post office and he didn't receive his deposit back from the seller, it's not beyond me why he would "re-start this bickering-feud over here". Especially, now that there is evidence that the seller has the coin.

Thats the whole point Mark, nobody knows for sure exactly what happened!

Both of these folks fail miserably in the communications department.

 

Indiananationals is whining about a forums personna when he should be taking action on his own. He does have a name to associate with this forum name and he does have an address.

 

He needs to address his concerns with the USPS.

 

From what I understand, the person that purchased the insurance is the person that files the clain should the package not be delivered and since Indiana sent the coin with minimal insurance, isn't Indiana the one thats supposed to file the insurance claim?

 

If you read any other posts here, IN went down to his PO today and began fraud proceedings against TR.

[coinman_23885]

Why Indiananatiionals decided to re-start this bickering-fued over here is beyond me.

 

I wondered the same thing.