1924 rainbow pece dollar that belonged to TR found

[PCcoins]

Obviously someone is lieing here. If the package was lost I'm sure the person who got the package wouldn't have put the coin up for sale at the same price the original seller wanted. $2000

 

And the same images are posted on ebay and there is a reference to the pcgs and ngc forums??

 

I smell BS

[PCcoins]

Seems like someone in the party had the coin the whole time and tryed to wait until this mess blow over to try and resell the coin. When it comes to nice toners I rarely forget an image, especially one that was in a 26 page thread ATS.

[BAJJERFAN]

Another tidbit not considered is that when IN filed his claim and the usps investigated, TR probably had to sign a form saying that he never received the item. TR will indeed have some serious splainin to do.

I think that this entire fiasco should be handled between TonedRarities and Indiananationals.

 

If folks have information to share, it can be handled via PM since the subject matter always ends up as a one sided trial.

 

Why Indiananatiionals decided to re-start this bickering-fued over here is beyond me.

 

If he didn't receive any funds from the post office and he didn't receive his deposit back from the seller, it's not beyond me why he would "re-start this bickering-feud over here". Especially, now that there is evidence that the seller has the coin.

 

The reappearance of the coin on eBay was noted ATS. It probably wasn't a good idear for IN to start a thread there.

[BAJJERFAN]

Seems like someone in the party had the coin the whole time and tryed to wait until this mess blow over to try and resell the coin. When it comes to nice toners I rarely forget an image, especially one that was in a 26 page thread ATS.

 

Don't the circumstances cause you to wonder how he got it back?

[bochiman]

If you read any other posts here, IN went down to his PO today and began fraud proceedings against TR.

 

 

Sure, that's what he SAID.

If he did, great. That's between him, TR, and the post office.

 

Given how he has acted in the past, and how he underinsured and got into it like he did, I won't believe anything he says until there is proof in front of my eyes.

 

Enough people egging it on over here, without any skin in the game, that it is just another soap opera.

 

 

[MarkFeld]

Another tidbit not considered is that when IN filed his claim and the usps investigated, TR probably had to sign a form saying that he never received the item. TR will indeed have some serious splainin to do.

I think that this entire fiasco should be handled between TonedRarities and Indiananationals.

 

If folks have information to share, it can be handled via PM since the subject matter always ends up as a one sided trial.

 

Why Indiananatiionals decided to re-start this bickering-fued over here is beyond me.

 

If he didn't receive any funds from the post office and he didn't receive his deposit back from the seller, it's not beyond me why he would "re-start this bickering-feud over here". Especially, now that there is evidence that the seller has the coin.

 

The reappearance of the coin on eBay was noted ATS. It probably wasn't a good idear for IN to start a thread there.

 

I didn't say I thought it was a good idea for him to start a thread about it here. Only that it wasn't beyond me why he would do so.

[BAJJERFAN]

If you read any other posts here, IN went down to his PO today and began fraud proceedings against TR.

 

 

Sure, that's what he SAID.

If he did, great. That's between him, TR, and the post office.

 

Given how he has acted in the past, and how he underinsured and got into it like he did, I won't believe anything he says until there is proof in front of my eyes.

 

Enough people egging it on over here, without any skin in the game, that it is just another soap opera.

 

 

It could be a good learning experience since many here and ATS still seem to misunderstand USPS insurance; at least judging from the responses. IN also said that he has contacted TR by email with no response in return. It is true that IN should have insured for the full amount, but that is no assurance that his claim would be paid. $300 at least requires a signature which was never gotten. One other lesson might be "don't try to get by cheap".

[PCcoins]

Seems like someone in the party had the coin the whole time and tryed to wait until this mess blow over to try and resell the coin. When it comes to nice toners I rarely forget an image, especially one that was in a 26 page thread ATS.

 

Don't the circumstances cause you to wonder how he got it back?

 

Not really, if that coin was listed on ebay for a buy it now for $2000, it's a little ironic. Don't you think?

 

Someone of the two people involved in the party has the coin, because if the package was really lost or stolen it wouldn't have ended up on ebay with the same pics... come on.

 

It's not that hard to say a package didn't arrive when it really did, because the person who sent the coin back didn't use all the bells and whistles to protect themselves. I remember that thread a while back and TR said that he was upset that the buyer didn't like the coin for $2000 and the buyer valued it a lot less in hand, so I think he got back at the buyer... just one man's opinion. OK, I'm done here

[$ilverHawk]

I read this entire thread and am firmly convinced that everyone is posting in some type of code. Would someone clearly state exactly what the issue is???

 

Some of us do not post or read posts ATS.

 

As Physics 3.1 posted--exactly what is going on?

 

Carl

 

Synopsis: A seller ("TR") sends a coin on approval to a prospective buyer ("IN" or "Indiana Nationals") for an agreed upon $2,000. The coin in question is the rainbow toned Peace Dollar that has been commented on. IN makes a $200 down payment. Upon receipt of the said coin, IN decides he does not want to keep the coin. Instead of insuring it for the agreed price of $2,000, IN only insures the coin for $300. The coin was lost (apparently as determined by the United States Postal Service) for several months, and now it magically appears this week on eBay. It has not been conclusively determined that TR is the seller, although some circumstantial evidence suggests strongly that it might be. IN still hasn't received his deposit (allegedly).

 

The questions presented are:

 

1. Can the coin be sold with clear title, and what legal ramifications, if any, would an innocent buyer face if buying the said coin? Is this influenced by the filing of a USPS insured mail claim for the lost package? What claim, if any, does IN have over the potential title?

 

2. Did TR receive the coin back, and if so, how long has TR had this coin?

 

3. Where is IN's deposit (if TR did indeed receive the coin back)?

 

Thank you Coinman,

 

Carl

[WoodenJefferson]

[19Lyds]

Another tidbit not considered is that when IN filed his claim and the usps investigated, TR probably had to sign a form saying that he never received the item. TR will indeed have some serious splainin to do.

I think that this entire fiasco should be handled between TonedRarities and Indiananationals.

 

If folks have information to share, it can be handled via PM since the subject matter always ends up as a one sided trial.

 

Why Indiananatiionals decided to re-start this bickering-fued over here is beyond me.

 

If he didn't receive any funds from the post office and he didn't receive his deposit back from the seller, it's not beyond me why he would "re-start this bickering-feud over here". Especially, now that there is evidence that the seller has the coin.

Thats the whole point Mark, nobody knows for sure exactly what happened!

Both of these folks fail miserably in the communications department.

 

Indiananationals is whining about a forums personna when he should be taking action on his own. He does have a name to associate with this forum name and he does have an address.

 

He needs to address his concerns with the USPS.

 

From what I understand, the person that purchased the insurance is the person that files the clain should the package not be delivered and since Indiana sent the coin with minimal insurance, isn't Indiana the one thats supposed to file the insurance claim?

 

If you read any other posts here, IN went down to his PO today and began fraud proceedings against TR.

What "fraud" has occured?

 

As "purchaser" of the $300 insurance, wouldn't Indiananationals have already collected the $300?

 

I guess I'm confused except for the fact the Indiananationals has some kind of an Axe to grind with TonedRarieties who is still an unnammed entity. Heck, even Indiananationals is an unnammed entity.

 

The picture I've drawn is this:

 

1. The two parties agreed to some type of a transaction over a 1924 Peace Dollar.

 

2. Indiananationals paid a $200 deposit to IAN's PayPal account since TonedRarities said his PayPal account was frozen. IAN, in the mean time, said he had no idea who TonedRarities was but then thats just one of the little twists this transaction has spawned.

 

3. Somehow, TonedRarities received the $200 "deposit/advance/whatever" and sent the coin to Indiananationals.

 

4. Indiananationals looks at the coins and say "No way this is worth $2,000". He then contacts TonedRarities saying as such and wants to return the coin.

 

5. TonedRarities says "Return It".

 

6. Indiananationals, in the smartest move of the year, returns the coin via Priority Mail with supposedly $300 worth of insurance but no tracking. Both parties agreed to transact for $2,000. TinedRarities said he shipped it with $2,000 insurance yet, Indiananationals felt a little tight on the day he returned it and opted for the cheapest insuarnce that he felt the coin was worth.

 

7. The package never arrives so TonedRarities, on Saturday eveing, 9/10/2011, opens a thread on the PCGS Forums. ( http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=830026 )

 

8. The thread stays active until Tuesday 9/13/2011.

 

9. In the meantime, ANOTHER Thread gets started dealing with the same issue where Indiananationals is revealed as the buyer so the two of them go at it and TonedRarities gets banned.

 

10. Indiananationals takes ownership of the initial thread and starts posting that TonedRarities said his PayPal account was frozen so send the $200 to some other account (Red Flag? Who Knows!) IAN (the "other" PayPal Account) tells Indiananationals that he doesn't know who TonedRarities is. TonedRarities says IAN doesn't know anything about coins so quit emailing him. Somehow TonedRarities got his $200.

 

11. The thread goes dead. Nobody knows what happened.

 

Did TonedRarities ever receive the coin?

 

Did Indiananationals file a claim on the Insurance the HE bought and end up with $300 (instead of the initial $200)?

 

Several Months go by

 

12. Indiananationals starts a thread on the PCGS Forums complaining that he had a deal go bad with another forum member. Evidently they agreed on a price but Indiananationals wanted the seller to send the coin to CAC. The seller did so and the coin got a Gold Bean. The seller wanted more money and then withdrew the request. He instead told the buyer (Indiananationals) that he needed $65 to ship the coin. When Indiana received the coin, he noticed it only cost $38 to ship so he wanted his $27 back from the seller.

 

13. That thread goes on for a day or so until both the buiyer and the seller get bammed.

 

14. TomB notices the Peace Dollar up for sale on eBay and starts a thread about it on the PCGS Forums.

 

15. Indiananationals brings the subject over hear since, he got re-instated on the PCGS Forum and doesn't want to get booted off of there AGAIN.

 

The questions regarding the original deal have still not been answered such as "What was the outcome?" Did Indiananationals file a claim? Obviously TonedRarities eventually received the coin but was it after the insurance was filed?

 

I suppose we'll never REALLY know what happens or happened other than the defamatory innuendo's posted in threads that get deleted.

 

BUT, I do find it rather bothersome that Indiananationals brought his problems over here and in reality, it's not even his problem any longer. Nothing will get resolved. and nobody will recover their integrity.

 

The way I see it, Indiananationals mailed the coin back and presumably, collected on the Insurance.

 

BUT

 

He still has that axe to grind and by gosh he's going to grind it at the NGC Forums expense.

[coinman_23885]

Another tidbit not considered is that when IN filed his claim and the usps investigated, TR probably had to sign a form saying that he never received the item. TR will indeed have some serious splainin to do.

I think that this entire fiasco should be handled between TonedRarities and Indiananationals.

 

If folks have information to share, it can be handled via PM since the subject matter always ends up as a one sided trial.

 

Why Indiananatiionals decided to re-start this bickering-fued over here is beyond me.

 

If he didn't receive any funds from the post office and he didn't receive his deposit back from the seller, it's not beyond me why he would "re-start this bickering-feud over here". Especially, now that there is evidence that the seller has the coin.

 

That's a big "if." The evidence is circumstantial, based on hearsay (or at least a few posts - whether here or ATS I don't recall) and innuendo, and is speculative at best. We do not know for certain. If IN had simply posted a link to warn other collectors, it would have been fair game, but he has gone out of his way to add fuel to the flames threatening charges against TR specifically. I agree that the Post Office should be notified and that whoever attempted to sell the coin should be in trouble; however, to intentionally attempt to conjure up animus toward another collector whose guilt hasn't been established in wrong in my opinion. I can only interpret this as a carry over from a bickering-feud.

[mumu]

I dont see anything wrong with starting this thread. Eventually the truth or some form of the truth, in most cases, will reveal itself and allow others to decide who they want and do not want to do business with.

 

I botched up a deal last year. And I outed myself ATS, both as a way to learn how to deal with unforseen situations in the future and for help in rectifying that current one. Someone, somewhere will learn something from all of these situations. Might not be these top notch pros that dont know why people post these things but its very easy not to enter a thread that doesnt interest you. When you go to the mall you dont HAVE to enter stores you dont like. You can walk right by them. Forums have that same inherent feature.

[mumu]

Also I posted in the thread ATS on this subject that ANYONE can start an auction on EBAY and sell that coin. I can go list it right now all I need is the pitctures. I can wait for some bids and then take it down. I dont think this is a likely scenario but it exists in the realm of possibility that someone might have done that just to fuel this fiasco?

[casman]

That's why I was curious if anybody actually knows TR? The most recent attempted sale of the toned peace dollar was ended by the seller, who thereafter again changes his seller name.

 

Now by looking at that sellers completed listings, there is a paypal verification logo which reveals the sellers email address for payments.

 

Now, by taking that email address, and plugging it into a facebook search, it will link to the alleged owner of that email account.

 

Can that stuff be borrowed, sure it can. However, I did note that the alleged facebooker has interests in the realm of magic, which in the very least corresponds to the sale of the magic cards.

 

Real seller? hijacked account? Perhaps both. Again, curious why nobody knows this TR guy. There were a few ATS that claimed to know him and one that even gave props for a transaction.

 

So despite the riddles, inquiring minds are curious what's going on.

[truthteller]

Wouldn't it be interesting if Indianationals and TonedRarities were the same person? :think:

 

 

 

TRUTH

[Kenneth F]

[dimefreak]

Its a decent coin in hand. I might have overpaid a smidge but not enough to be sending it back.

[19Lyds]

That's why I was curious if anybody actually knows TR? The most recent attempted sale of the toned peace dollar was ended by the seller, who thereafter again changes his seller name.

 

Now by looking at that sellers completed listings, there is a paypal verification logo which reveals the sellers email address for payments.

 

Now, by taking that email address, and plugging it into a facebook search, it will link to the alleged owner of that email account.

 

Can that stuff be borrowed, sure it can. However, I did note that the alleged facebooker has interests in the realm of magic, which in the very least corresponds to the sale of the magic cards.

 

Real seller? hijacked account? Perhaps both. Again, curious why nobody knows this TR guy. There were a few ATS that claimed to know him and one that even gave props for a transaction.

 

So despite the riddles, inquiring minds are curious what's going on.

I wasn't aware that you could extract email addresses off of eBay without having actually purchased something from a seller so what in the heck are you talking about?

[rrantique]

When you gonna post some picts?

[coinman_23885]

Its a decent coin in hand. I might have overpaid a smidge but not enough to be sending it back.

 

I hope you used a credit card so that you can potentially do a charge back if necessary.

[19Lyds]

Its a decent coin in hand. I might have overpaid a smidge but not enough to be sending it back.

Yeah Right!

[casman]

That's why I was curious if anybody actually knows TR? The most recent attempted sale of the toned peace dollar was ended by the seller, who thereafter again changes his seller name.

 

Now by looking at that sellers completed listings, there is a paypal verification logo which reveals the sellers email address for payments.

 

Now, by taking that email address, and plugging it into a facebook search, it will link to the alleged owner of that email account.

 

Can that stuff be borrowed, sure it can. However, I did note that the alleged facebooker has interests in the realm of magic, which in the very least corresponds to the sale of the magic cards.

 

Real seller? hijacked account? Perhaps both. Again, curious why nobody knows this TR guy. There were a few ATS that claimed to know him and one that even gave props for a transaction.

 

So despite the riddles, inquiring minds are curious what's going on.

I wasn't aware that you could extract email addresses off of eBay without having actually purchased something from a seller so what in the heck are you talking about?

 

 

 

Geez, I'll spell it out again. Find the most recent failed sales attempt for the peace dollar. Click on: See sellers other items (there are none), then click on completed listings on the left side. You will find 2 recent completed sales. Click on either one of them. In the description, toward the bottom is a paypal verification logo. By Clicking on the logo, or sometimes by just placing your curser over it and it will reveal the sellers verified email address. Next, go to facebook. Type in the complete email address into the search bar, and hit enter.

 

That will take you to the owner of that email addresses facebook page. It works with any email address if a seller uses the paypal verification logo in their listings.

[19Lyds]

That's why I was curious if anybody actually knows TR? The most recent attempted sale of the toned peace dollar was ended by the seller, who thereafter again changes his seller name.

 

Now by looking at that sellers completed listings, there is a paypal verification logo which reveals the sellers email address for payments.

 

Now, by taking that email address, and plugging it into a facebook search, it will link to the alleged owner of that email account.

 

Can that stuff be borrowed, sure it can. However, I did note that the alleged facebooker has interests in the realm of magic, which in the very least corresponds to the sale of the magic cards.

 

Real seller? hijacked account? Perhaps both. Again, curious why nobody knows this TR guy. There were a few ATS that claimed to know him and one that even gave props for a transaction.

 

So despite the riddles, inquiring minds are curious what's going on.

I wasn't aware that you could extract email addresses off of eBay without having actually purchased something from a seller so what in the heck are you talking about?

 

 

 

Geez, I'll spell it out again. Find the most recent failed sales attempt for the peace dollar. Click on: See sellers other items (there are none), then click on completed listings on the left side. You will find 2 recent completed sales. Click on either one of them. In the description, toward the bottom is a paypal verification logo. By Clicking on the logo, or sometimes by just placing your curser over it and it will reveal the sellers verified email address. Next, go to facebook. Type in the complete email address into the search bar, and hit enter.

 

That will take you to the owner of that email addresses facebook page. It works with any email address if a seller uses the paypal verification logo in their listings.

Gotcha! Thanks. Matthew R. Who the heck is that? TonedRarities was referred to as "Chris" by Indiananationals.

[jerseycat10]

[coinman_23885]

Gotcha! Thanks. Matthew R. Who the heck is that? TonedRarities was referred to as "Chris" by Indiananationals.

 

This keeps getting more interesting.

[dimefreak]

So lets get this straight.....

The email says Matthew R

Toned Rarities says Chris

And the package I got says Jared Casea

 

I need a break from all of this

[MJ]

So lets get this straight.....

The email says Matthew R

Toned Rarities says Chris

And the package I got says Jared Casea

 

I need a break from all of this

 

This just turned into a Mission Impossible scene. Cue Ethan Hunt pulling off a mask and it's BNB. Classic if true. MJ

[coinman_23885]

So lets get this straight.....

The email says Matthew R

Toned Rarities says Chris

And the package I got says Jared Casea

 

I need a break from all of this

 

I would be very concerned if I were you. There could be a potentially innocent explanation here, but the more circumstantial evidence that comes to surface, the odds of this turning out well are becoming infinitesimally small. This looks like it is getting worse. I can only imagine what surprises may arise in the near future. Good luck.

[coinman_23885]

And the package I got says Jared Casea

 

Upon further thought, isn't this BNB's name?