Anyone know who this Ebay Dip, Tone & Rinse Expert is ?

[TonerGuy]

Seems he likes to allude to how you can make big $$$ on Ebay with his techniques...

 

He deleted the comments since he was getting too much heat for posting this video...

 

Toning Nickel and Copper....

 

I would like to see some detail pics of his work...

[jom]

I haven't a clue who this guy is but the video is important. Once you see how it's done and the result you will KNOW what to stay away from on eBay or wherever.

 

It IS educational as far as I'm concerned.

 

Why anyone is dumb enough to pay a lot for this cr*p is beyond me.

 

jom

[Walkerfan]

I think this video is important, too.

 

He appears to be trying to warn & educate people. IMHO.

[e1cnr]

I like that IKE

[Chris1976]

While I can agree that it was done in an educational fashion (thank god he didnt tell what the chemicals were) I feel that the more of this type of video that is put out there, the more we will be seeing doctored coins hitting the market. I know it's just my opinion, but I truly wish people would not show this kind of thing as it will only encourage those with ill-intentions.

 

-Chris#2

[Walkerfan]

While I can agree that it was done in an educational fashion (thank god he didnt tell what the chemicals were) I feel that the more of this type of video that is put out there, the more we will be seeing doctored coins hitting the market. I know it's just my opinion, but I truly wish people would not show this kind of thing as it will only encourage those with ill-intentions.

 

-Chris#2

 

Believe me.......there are ALOT of ill-intentioned people already out there and they are already practicing these methods. But I do agree with you that this video does tend to encourage the wrong people and to make it easier for them, unfortunately, by pointing them in that direction. Where there is a will there is a way. These people will find out one way or the other. The video is indeed disturbing.

[jom]

Forget about what intention anyone has. We need to educate people about this. Otherwise you will NEVER be able to keep up with all of the crooks.

 

You need to nip this in the bud where it is most effective: Educate collectors about toning: what's real, what isn't. That is all that matters. I mean, if EVERYONE understood what is a fake colored coin you can have people publishing the ingredients all across the internet and it wouldn't matter a bit.

 

I wish more effort was spent on showing collectors what is real and fake toning and less on pontificating about coin doctors. I just think the latter is a waste of time because once you get rid of one doctor another will just come along. We should all try to show as many photos of fake, AT, NT coins...all of that. And try to give as much info as possible.

 

Sometimes I just think the whole issue is a "secret" to only a special few. Of course, I think this is because the TPGs have let in MANY AT'd coins that are now considered Market Acceptable. OK, so I'm cynical....sorry.

 

jom

[Walkerfan]

There is NO DOUBT in my mind that many AT'ed coins have made their way into Major TPGS slabs. It's kinda like the undetectable whizzing issue that has been recently discussed....

[coinman_23885]

Of course, I think this is because the TPGs have let in MANY AT'd coins that are now considered Market Acceptable. OK, so I'm cynical....sorry.

 

jom

 

But you are absolutely correct. The people who are have the malevolent intent to do this likely already know how to do this. Why not educate the collector so that he or she can figure out what to buy and what not to buy? If you eliminate the demand, then there would no longer be as much of an incentive to practice AT methods.

[lehigh96]

I think this video is important, too.

 

He appears to be trying to warn & educate people. IMHO.

 

For everyone interested in the intentions of this Youtube poster, let me educate you. This is one of the guys who was instrumental in getting me banned from Cointalk. His intention was to prove to the Cointalk members that he could back up the claims that he made in that infamous thread about his coin doctoring skills. He first posted that video in post #77 in that thread (see link below).

 

How to Tone Coins

 

My favorite passage of his in that thread was post #57

 

I never disclosed some of the methods that has produced some beauties. I have no need to! So yes, please remove me from your coin doctor list. The article is a good primer, and many that want to try it and take it to the next level will sooner or later discover them.

To them I say; Don't give up, and think outside the box and you to can be an official coin doctor... Don't forget to email Lehigh your user name so he can add you to the list...

 

He encourages people to read the article on how to AT coins by the OP in that thread and to take the methods further to become a successful coin doctor. He also alludes that he is a coin doctor himself.

 

@Tonerguy, you will not see evidence of his work. He is not a coin doctor, his specialty is gun bluing as is evidenced by his avatar on Cointalk. In the end, he is just some clown who was trying to impress all the newbies on Cointalk.

 

 

[coinman_23885]

I think his posts are informative as are his Youtube videos, but his work isn't as great as he thinks. The coins look blatantly AT to me.

[bsshog40]

So that's where all those brightly colored AT coins on ebay are coming from. I agree with Kenny also, blatantly AT and basically bought by those that are not knowledgeable in NT coins.

[TonerGuy]

blatantly AT and basically bought by those that are not knowledgeable in NT coins.

 

And therein lies the problem... how many Newbs get sucked in by cheap AT toners on Ebay and get taken for some money to never return to the hobby because of a**hats like this guy ?

 

I really would like to set up an educational website where people that care about the industry can submit articles and post videos about toning and the differences to look for between NT and AT...

 

There needs to be some positive educational material out there for the newbs and even the more experienced collectors that might not know toning so they can educate themselves before making bad buying decisions...

[jom]

blatantly AT and basically bought by those that are not knowledgeable in NT coins.

 

And therein lies the problem... how many Newbs get sucked in by cheap AT toners on Ebay and get taken for some money to never return to the hobby because of a**hats like this guy ?

 

I really would like to set up an educational website where people that care about the industry can submit articles and post videos about toning and the differences to look for between NT and AT...

 

There needs to be some positive educational material out there for the newbs and even the more experienced collectors that might not know toning so they can educate themselves before making bad buying decisions...

 

I agree. However, one of the things I'd do is show a newbie the eBay auctions where these coins get sold. THEN show them this guy's video. After this if the newbie still wants the buy this cr*p at least there is complete disclosure of exactly what they are getting. That's pretty damn educational, IMO.

 

If this -clown wants to show these videos I say we USE it against them.

 

jom

[Crohnos01]

Yeah... I am way too green of a collector to be able to tell AT from the real thing I am afraid.... I just stay away from Ebay toners period at this point.

 

So what are some of the dead giveaways on the AT process?

[TonerGuy]

Yeah... I am way too green of a collector to be able to tell AT from the real thing I am afraid.... I just stay away from Ebay toners period at this point.

 

So what are some of the dead giveaways on the AT process?

 

Do you think that you would utilize a website that was devoted to nothing more than information on artificial and natural toning that included articles, photos and videos ?

[Crohnos01]

Yeah, I am trying to educate myself as much as possible (hence why I am on this site).... does such a (reputable) website exist?

[TonerGuy]

Not yet.... but its something I might consider launching...

[Crohnos01]

Wow, that would be excellent! Let me know if you get something going!

[Kenneth F]

Rule of thumb.. never... never... never buy anything RAW from Ebay.. especially toned. Ebay has tons of AT.. cleaned.. altered.. polished coins!

 

My Ebay account was suspended for calling out these clowns. Ebay also threatened to delete my account if I kept it up. I cant see a way to combat these clowns.. Ebay will lose money if they pull the bogus auctions. I once started a thread on the Ebay chat named "Joke of the Week". In the joke of the week I would discuss the clown auctions for above mentioned coins. I got bashed by the "clowns" and Ebay.. so I threw in the towel.. I have to start it up again.

 

The best defense against stuff like this is education. Anytime I talk to young collectors, I try to give them the first batch of education.. the "cover your 6" lecture. The "cover your 6" lecture talks about counterfeits, cleaned, altered, AT and my favorite.. price gouging.

[Crazy Mtn Coins]

I am new to this board, however, I will throw my two cents in also. I really like the idea of a website or whatever that would educate people like me regarding cleaned, polished, buzzed etc. coin recognizing. Some of the doctoring is really difficult to see but the more us beginners learn the better. I read the five articles by Jason Poe on What You Need To Know About: Wear, etc. and really appreciate articles like that and something similar to those articles on recognizing coin doctoring would help. Regarding Ebay, I have been stung a number of times by purchasing raw coins and having them be doctored in some way. I finally learned to not buy anything that the seller does not allow returns, pay only through PayPal, check out the seller, and if no one else is bidding on it, be careful. I have bought a number of larger lots of raw BU Morgans from other sources and have really been surprised at the number of polished, buzzed, whatever coins there are. I pull those coins and sell them as bullion on Ebay, but now I am wondering how many of those coins are being resold to unsuspecting buyers as good coins. I am thinking I should make a serious scratch across the face of the coin and then sell them as bullion.

[TonerGuy]

Well as you can tell from my name I am a toning guy...and know something about toning... others on the board have probably forgotten more about toning than I will ever know but I have the capabilities to start an informational website about AT and NT issues where others can add their expertise... whether its videos, articles, links to videos like the one I started the thread with or even links to known doctors/sellers on Ebay and or dealers.

 

I would think that it could be quite helpful and informational for the community...

[Crohnos01]

Hey Kenneth.... I hear what you are saying.... I just bought a 1950 D Jefferson Nickle on Ebay which was listed as a "high grade AU".... Ummm... no, not even close. It came in the mail just before Christmas and even without a loupe I could tell it was no AU.... More along the lines of F or VF... I contacted the seller and told him I was very unhappy. He offered a full refund and I just sent it back today.... We'll see if he is as good as his word or not.

 

I am green grass when it comes to collecting, but even I can tell a F from an AU.....I even copied the grading notes out of the 2012 Red Book and enclosed it to prove my point...... Disappointing to say the least!

[lehigh96]

blatantly AT and basically bought by those that are not knowledgeable in NT coins.

 

And therein lies the problem... how many Newbs get sucked in by cheap AT toners on Ebay and get taken for some money to never return to the hobby because of a**hats like this guy ?

 

I really would like to set up an educational website where people that care about the industry can submit articles and post videos about toning and the differences to look for between NT and AT...

 

There needs to be some positive educational material out there for the newbs and even the more experienced collectors that might not know toning so they can educate themselves before making bad buying decisions...

 

You mean something like the TCCS. The loss of the information on that forum was tragic IMO. IIRC, Shane had mentioned that there was a chance that it could be reconstituted, but that was a long time ago. I really miss that forum. As a toning enthusiast, it was my favorite numismatic forum.

 

The problem with just creating an educational website is the subjective nature of analyzing toning. In the end, nobody can prove NT or AT, we only deem certain toning patterns and color progressions as market acceptable. And what is market acceptable today may not always be market acceptable in the future.

 

Any website on the topic of toning would have to be in the nature of a forum so that questions can be answered, specific coins discussed, and health debates documented for everyone to read.

 

 

[TonerGuy]

 

You mean something like the TCCS. The loss of the information on that forum was tragic IMO. IIRC, Shane had mentioned that there was a chance that it could be reconstituted, but that was a long time ago. I really miss that forum. As a toning enthusiast, it was my favorite numismatic forum.

 

The problem with just creating an educational website is the subjective nature of analyzing toning. In the end, nobody can prove NT or AT, we only deem certain toning patterns and color progressions as market acceptable. And what is market acceptable today may not always be market acceptable in the future.

 

Any website on the topic of toning would have to be in the nature of a forum so that questions can be answered, specific coins discussed, and health debates documented for everyone to read.

 

 

Yeah it was tragic when TCCS went down... I think a forum attached to something like a wiki style site would work the best... almost like the VAM (http://www.VamWorld.com) site where others can contribute scholarly articles, photos, & videos and those can be vetted by the members... If its material everyone agrees with (for the most part) it stays if its something that most of the members dont agree with it gets removed....

 

Obviously since toning is subjective it will always be a "work in progress."