RAW 1923P Peace Dollar (12/12/11: New Images!)

[tallguybry]

Hey Guys,

 

I'm still trying to learn the ropes when it comes to "the sin" of buying raw coins. I know there are "GEM BU" coins out there. But as I have learned. There's a good deal of "trash". (and I use that term loosely and with a smile.)

 

I spent most of the afternoon looking for a really clean silver dollar (mostly Morgan's and a few Peace dollars).

 

Take this 1923P Peace Dollar, for example:

 

The seller only provided a picture of the Obverse.

 

Here's what I see:

1. It looks to be a well struck coin. The hairlines are well defined.

2. The luster looks natural and not cleaned or polished. Do I see a little bit of toning?

3. The fields look very clean.

4. Liberty's cheek looks very clean. I see one line coming from under her nose going to the lower right.

 

I compared the coin to MS60 through MS66 NGC/PCGS-graded Peace Dollars. I determine this coin to be in the 65-66 range.

 

The coin sold for $40.99. People are paying $26-32 for "trash" Peace dollars. NumisMedia puts a FMV of $68 on a MS64. Not worth the purchase/grading cost in my mind. However, MS65 commands a FMV of $185, $630 for a MS66 and a staggering $4680 for a MS67.

 

Here's where I would like the help. Am I wrong to think this coin is in the 65-66 range? Can you guys tell what grade it might be from the limited size picture? If so, what do you look for?

 

I'm trying to grow out of my "Mr. Clean(ed) Coin" phase.

 

Thoughts,

Bryan

[bsshog40]

It's a little hard to grade by this pic. Looks clean from here but I would be worried at what looks like a rim ding just below "L" in liberty.

[e1cnr]

here are my thoughts

 

if photo out of focus (like this) I am reluctant to bid

if no reverse photo (like this) I am reluctant to bid

 

I check the sellers other auctions and completed auctions to see if the are consistent (if all their photos are great but this one sucks, I am suspicious)

 

or if they know anything about coins

 

if you are looking for varieties, and the seller is selling varieties, this is not one, unless they mention it

 

many sellers do not know where the mintmark is or what it is

 

this coin pictured looks off in the field in front of the portrait

- possibly cleaned or whizzed, but maybe not

 

having said all that, you should post pics of front and back when you get it

because to me it looks like it could be a 1928, and if it is a 1928-P, you scored

[Chris1976]

I dont see any way of telling what the coin could grade without seeing the reverse. For all any of us know it could be severely damaged.

 

I'm sure its just a typo, but your post title says 1923P but the coin in the picture is a 1928

[MarkFeld]

Am I wrong to think this coin is in the 65-66 range?

 

You're wrong to think much of anything, based on a poor obverse image and no reverse image.

 

There might be flaws (including hairlines) and/or problems such as cleaning, on the obverse, which don't show in the image. And you have no idea at all, what the reverse looks like. Maybe it's of excellent quality and maybe it's of terrible quality.

 

 

[MarkFeld]

I dont see any way of telling what the coin could grade without seeing the reverse. For all any of us know it could be severely damaged.

 

I'm sure its just a typo, but your post title says 1923P but the coin in the picture is a 1928

 

I believe that it is a 1923, not a 1928.

[tallguybry]

I'm working on getting you guys some more pics.

 

Stay Tuned!

[BillJones]

The image is out of focus which makes it impossible to estimate a Mint State grade for this coin if it is Mint State.

[bsshog40]

I dont see any way of telling what the coin could grade without seeing the reverse. For all any of us know it could be severely damaged.

 

I'm sure its just a typo, but your post title says 1923P but the coin in the picture is a 1928

 

I believe that it is a 1923, not a 1928.

I'll tell ya what, I hit the 200% zoom on my monitor and that thing looks like an 8 to me. I could be wrong as I'm gettin old ya know.

[zboyle04]

you can see that it has some luster, most likely uncleaned. I wouldn't count on 65 and certainly not 66 for a mere $40, but it is most likely 62-64

[Ducksoup]

I'm sure its just a typo, but your post title says 1923P but the coin in the picture is a 1928

 

I believe that it is a 1923, not a 1928.

 

I think it is a 1928 and here's why, if you look at the top left curve of the 8 (or 3) you will notice the line looks unbroken as it comes down and crosses over to become the bottom right curve of the 8, compare that to a certified 1923 coin and you can see the difference. Having said that, the picture is fuzzy and maybe what I see is a part of the poor picture quality.

[Chris1976]

I dont see any way of telling what the coin could grade without seeing the reverse. For all any of us know it could be severely damaged.

 

I'm sure its just a typo, but your post title says 1923P but the coin in the picture is a 1928

 

I believe that it is a 1923, not a 1928.

 

you may be right, in that case I stand corrected.

[FishyOne]

 

Here's what I see:

1. It looks to be a well struck coin. The hairlines are well defined.

2. The luster looks natural and not cleaned or polished. Do I see a little bit of toning?

3. The fields look very clean.

4. Liberty's cheek looks very clean. I see one line coming from under her nose going to the lower right.

 

...I determine this coin to be in the 65-66 range...

 

...Am I wrong to think this coin is in the 65-66 range? Can you guys tell what grade it might be from the limited size picture?

 

1. Does look well struck (obverse only of course). Hairlines are not the way to describe hair detail.

2. Luster looks good with no obvious signs of cleaning. A touch of toning.

3. Obverse fields do look pretty good.

4. Cheek does appear nice.

 

No way to determine a grade. Obverse looks at least 63, probably 64, and MAYBE better.

 

Based on what I can see, the obverse would grade 64 or so.

[coinman_23885]

I dont see any way of telling what the coin could grade without seeing the reverse. For all any of us know it could be severely damaged.

 

I'm sure its just a typo, but your post title says 1923P but the coin in the picture is a 1928

 

It's just the weird font used on the coins combined with the poor images. Another interesting quirk with the font is that the "U" in "TRUST" looks like a "V".

[coinman_23885]

here are my thoughts

 

if photo out of focus (like this) I am reluctant to bid

if no reverse photo (like this) I am reluctant to bid

 

I check the sellers other auctions and completed auctions to see if the are consistent (if all their photos are great but this one sucks, I am suspicious)

 

or if they know anything about coins

 

if you are looking for varieties, and the seller is selling varieties, this is not one, unless they mention it

 

many sellers do not know where the mintmark is or what it is

 

+1, but it is definitely a 1923.

[zboyle04]

I dont see any way of telling what the coin could grade without seeing the reverse. For all any of us know it could be severely damaged.

 

I'm sure its just a typo, but your post title says 1923P but the coin in the picture is a 1928

 

It's just the weird font used on the coins combined with the poor images. Another interesting quirk with the font is that the "U" in "TRUST" looks like a "V".

 

[bsshog40]

 

 

 

Another interesting quirk with the font is that the "U" in "TRUST" looks like a "V".

 

It is a "V". Commonly used on the Peace Dollars.

[Bruceswar]

This coin going off the photo is MS64+ or better. As for the date, I will put money on 23, but it sure looks like 28

[Six Mile Rick]

Yep------1928

[tallguybry]

Here are some new images of her:

 

 

 

I see a rim-ding on the Obverse in between the "L" and the "I". Does this disqualify the coin from getting graded?

 

Also, I see some funny green stuff on both sides.

 

Thoughts?

Bryan

[Bruceswar]

The green has to go ASAP. Take it out and dip it right away. Soak it in acetone.

[tallguybry]

The green has to go ASAP. Take it out and dip it right away. Soak it in acetone.

 

That doesn't harm the coin??

[FishyOne]

Well we now know it's a '23!

 

The green could be PVC residue. Why would you want to have this piece graded? The rim ding wouldn't be a no-grade, the residue probably would.

 

I'd try an acetone rinse and see what happens.

[Bruceswar]

The green has to go ASAP. Take it out and dip it right away. Soak it in acetone.

 

That doesn't harm the coin??

 

Nope that will not hurt the coin one bit.... once done soaking rinse the coin in warm water and pat dry.

[tallguybry]

I have to go to Lowe's tomorrow anyway.

 

How long do I soak her for?

 

Well, graded coins are worth more then raw ones. Plus, if she's in the higher end of the grading scale, it may be worth the grading/shipping fees...

[Bruceswar]

Make sure you get 100% pure acetone...

 

I would try about 30 seconds at first.. then rinse.. if not off fully keep going until it does come off. Also be careful not to take in too many fumes. Use a glass dish or bowl, but not plastic.

 

I grade the coin as MS64 and not worth the slabbing cost.

[e1cnr]

get a magnifying glass or loupe, if you do not have one

 

it looks like someone cleaned the portrait

-think of someone taking some sandpaper, placing it on the nose, and pulling down the jaw and behind the ear

 

you should be able to see at about a 30 degree angle rotated to light source

 

 

coin is alright, but not worth much over melt, so personally, I would rather buy another coin than get that one into a slab

 

 

that green stuff sure looks like could be early pvc contamination, hopefully it has not started any pitting yet

[coinman_23885]

The coin has PVC residue on it (the green splotches). I recommend dipping the coin in acetone to remove the PVC. In terms of market potential, I would value you it at the current spot price. I would flip it ASAP!