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Do you like this toner?

Started by Bruceswar,

29 posts in this topic

Bruceswar

Bruceswar

Posted
Posted

Straight forward question. What do you think of this toner? Yay? Nay? Other? Grade the coin also if you like. Sorry if my images are not up to par. I am rusty as hell, and well you know.. The color is true to life.

 

 

82st.png

82sto.png

82str.png

 

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Bruceswar

Bruceswar

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The Stars look off to me as everyone appear to be un-toned along the same edges but I love the color and the reverse is awesome.

 

That is a key aspect of original toning. Many toners show what they call "toning shadows" That helps people know if a coin is AT or NT. If it has those shadows it is usually an NT coin.

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mtnstyne

mtnstyne

Posted
Posted
The Stars look off to me as everyone appear to be un-toned along the same edges but I love the color and the reverse is awesome.

 

That is a key aspect of original toning. Many toners show what they call "toning shadows" That helps people know if a coin is AT or NT. If it has those shadows it is usually an NT coin.

 

I have heard this before but I am wondering how it would occur?

 

BTW: MS64 and yes I like it very much (thumbs u

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cpm9ball

cpm9ball

Posted
Posted
The Stars look off to me as everyone appear to be un-toned along the same edges but I love the color and the reverse is awesome.

 

That is a key aspect of original toning. Many toners show what they call "toning shadows" That helps people know if a coin is AT or NT. If it has those shadows it is usually an NT coin.

 

Toning shadows................

 

One more acronym to add to the arsenal.........NT, AT & AE.......Atomic Effect!

 

Chris :devil:

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Kurtdog

Kurtdog

Posted
Posted

Look at the flatness on the eagle's chest and more notably on its left leg and on the lower feathers on its left wing. That would have to be explained away for me to go MS off these pictures. I'll agree with Mark that it otherwise has the look of a technical MS65. The color is natural tarnish and it appears to be the product of age and that's the type I value. Whatever the verdict on the grade, I think it's a beautiful coin.

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Bruceswar

Bruceswar

Posted
  • Author
Posted
The Stars look off to me as everyone appear to be un-toned along the same edges but I love the color and the reverse is awesome.

 

That is a key aspect of original toning. Many toners show what they call "toning shadows" That helps people know if a coin is AT or NT. If it has those shadows it is usually an NT coin.

 

I have heard this before but I am wondering how it would occur?

 

BTW: MS64 and yes I like it very much (thumbs u

 

 

I am not a chemist so I do not know the why of it, but I always look for them.

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BillJones

BillJones

Posted
Posted

As I said ATS, it's is okay. The reverse toning interfers with with my enjoyment of the design, but it actually looks better here than it did in the photos ATS. The obverse is okay, but not great.

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Bruceswar

Bruceswar

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I guess I should also mention, this coin is ex John Highfill. At least that was what I was told. The guy I got it from said he bought this at the long beach show 30 years ago from John.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
Look at the flatness on the eagle's chest and more notably on its left leg and on the lower feathers on its left wing. That would have to be explained away for me to go MS off these pictures. I'll agree with Mark that it otherwise has the look of a technical MS65. The color is natural tarnish and it appears to be the product of age and that's the type I value. Whatever the verdict on the grade, I think it's a beautiful coin.

 

I believe that you're merely seeing areas of weak strike. Nothing else about the coin (luster, surfaces, etc.) even hints at it beng other than uncirculated.

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Mark T

Mark T

Posted
Posted
Look at the flatness on the eagle's chest and more notably on its left leg and on the lower feathers on its left wing. That would have to be explained away for me to go MS off these pictures. I'll agree with Mark that it otherwise has the look of a technical MS65. The color is natural tarnish and it appears to be the product of age and that's the type I value. Whatever the verdict on the grade, I think it's a beautiful coin.

 

Mark already posted that the flatness is strike related. Strike issues are very common on Morgans so you have to take this into consideration for this series.

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lehigh96

lehigh96

Posted
Posted
The Stars look off to me as everyone appear to be un-toned along the same edges but I love the color and the reverse is awesome.

 

That is a key aspect of original toning. Many toners show what they call "toning shadows" That helps people know if a coin is AT or NT. If it has those shadows it is usually an NT coin.

 

I have heard it called the "shadow effect" before and more commonly called pull away toning. Whatever it is called, I have never understood why natural air transfer toning would not tone an area of localized hard worked metal while an artificial method would tone the same area.

 

I guess what I am saying is that I don't put as much stock into pull away toning as an indicator of NT as others. I would rather rely on accepted color schemes and correct color progressions. I have not seen the coin in hand, but it bears a color scheme that seems questionable to my eye. I own a coin with a similar color scheme which I believe after viewing in hand is questionably toned.

 

MorganDollar1884-ORaw1.jpg

 

I am not saying your coin is AT. Heck, I am not even saying my coin is AT. What I am saying is that given the abundance of NT Morgans available, it seems silly to mess with anything that would be considered questionable, unless you like the gamble.

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

Posted
Posted

Bruce, that coin looks fantastic. I love the pull away toning.

 

I've heard it was due to the different density around the devices. As metal flowed up into the die, the density changed. Toning occurs differently on surfaces of different density.

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
Posted

For my personal tastes, that particular toning is a distraction, and it is a coin I would pass on. That said, in the larger context of an appropriate collection, I could very well appreciate its positive attributes.

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Kurtdog

Kurtdog

Posted
Posted
The Stars look off to me as everyone appear to be un-toned along the same edges but I love the color and the reverse is awesome.

 

That is a key aspect of original toning. Many toners show what they call "toning shadows" That helps people know if a coin is AT or NT. If it has those shadows it is usually an NT coin.

 

I have heard it called the "shadow effect" before and more commonly called pull away toning. Whatever it is called, I have never understood why natural air transfer toning would not tone an area of localized hard worked metal while an artificial method would tone the same area.

 

I guess what I am saying is that I don't put as much stock into pull away toning as an indicator of NT as others. I would rather rely on accepted color schemes and correct color progressions. I have not seen the coin in hand, but it bears a color scheme that seems questionable to my eye. I own a coin with a similar color scheme which I believe after viewing in hand is questionably toned.

 

MorganDollar1884-ORaw1.jpg

 

I am not saying your coin is AT. Heck, I am not even saying my coin is AT. What I am saying is that given the abundance of NT Morgans available, it seems silly to mess with anything that would be considered questionable, unless you like the gamble.

A couple of things. First, your coin shows the area I'm questioning on his coin. Look, in particular, at your eagle's left leg and at the lower tail feathers on the left wing. Do you see how strong yours are? That's characteristic of these. Do you see how weak his are? Those are just two reasons I'm unsure of the technical grade on his.

 

OK, now to the toning issue on these. Both of these are good coins. That toning is tarnish and all tarnish is natural. End of inquiry. Unless you like double-talk.

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lehigh96

lehigh96

Posted
Posted
The Stars look off to me as everyone appear to be un-toned along the same edges but I love the color and the reverse is awesome.

 

That is a key aspect of original toning. Many toners show what they call "toning shadows" That helps people know if a coin is AT or NT. If it has those shadows it is usually an NT coin.

 

I have heard it called the "shadow effect" before and more commonly called pull away toning. Whatever it is called, I have never understood why natural air transfer toning would not tone an area of localized hard worked metal while an artificial method would tone the same area.

 

I guess what I am saying is that I don't put as much stock into pull away toning as an indicator of NT as others. I would rather rely on accepted color schemes and correct color progressions. I have not seen the coin in hand, but it bears a color scheme that seems questionable to my eye. I own a coin with a similar color scheme which I believe after viewing in hand is questionably toned.

 

MorganDollar1884-ORaw1.jpg

 

I am not saying your coin is AT. Heck, I am not even saying my coin is AT. What I am saying is that given the abundance of NT Morgans available, it seems silly to mess with anything that would be considered questionable, unless you like the gamble.

A couple of things. First, your coin shows the area I'm questioning on his coin. Look, in particular, at your eagle's left leg and at the lower tail feathers on the left wing. Do you see how strong yours are? That's characteristic of these. Do you see how weak his are? Those are just two reasons I'm unsure of the technical grade on his.

 

OK, now to the toning issue on these. Both of these are good coins. That toning is tarnish and all tarnish is natural. End of inquiry. Unless you like double-talk.

 

Kurtdog,

 

While I understand your stance towards toning and actually agree with you to some extent, the rest of the numismatic community does not agree with us. They are consumed with the desire to separate the original from the artificial no matter how futile their efforts. My comment to the OP was that I don't think it is a slam dunk that the TPG's will consider his coin (or mine) market acceptable.

 

Like it or not, we play by the rules established by the TPG's.

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Kurtdog

Kurtdog

Posted
Posted
The Stars look off to me as everyone appear to be un-toned along the same edges but I love the color and the reverse is awesome.

 

That is a key aspect of original toning. Many toners show what they call "toning shadows" That helps people know if a coin is AT or NT. If it has those shadows it is usually an NT coin.

 

I have heard it called the "shadow effect" before and more commonly called pull away toning. Whatever it is called, I have never understood why natural air transfer toning would not tone an area of localized hard worked metal while an artificial method would tone the same area.

 

I guess what I am saying is that I don't put as much stock into pull away toning as an indicator of NT as others. I would rather rely on accepted color schemes and correct color progressions. I have not seen the coin in hand, but it bears a color scheme that seems questionable to my eye. I own a coin with a similar color scheme which I believe after viewing in hand is questionably toned.

 

MorganDollar1884-ORaw1.jpg

 

I am not saying your coin is AT. Heck, I am not even saying my coin is AT. What I am saying is that given the abundance of NT Morgans available, it seems silly to mess with anything that would be considered questionable, unless you like the gamble.

A couple of things. First, your coin shows the area I'm questioning on his coin. Look, in particular, at your eagle's left leg and at the lower tail feathers on the left wing. Do you see how strong yours are? That's characteristic of these. Do you see how weak his are? Those are just two reasons I'm unsure of the technical grade on his.

 

OK, now to the toning issue on these. Both of these are good coins. That toning is tarnish and all tarnish is natural. End of inquiry. Unless you like double-talk.

 

Kurtdog,

 

While I understand your stance towards toning and actually agree with you to some extent, the rest of the numismatic community does not agree with us. They are consumed with the desire to separate the original from the artificial no matter how futile their efforts. My comment to the OP was that I don't think it is a slam dunk that the TPG's will consider his coin (or mine) market acceptable.

 

Like it or not, we play by the rules established by the TPG's.

I don't know but that when you're referring to "the rest of the numismatic community" you're not simply referring to the registry-set groupies, who, of course, if they want the bragging rights, have to play by the standards the TPGs insist on, however arbitrary and irrational said standards may be. At any rate, in that vein, I'm reminded of the wisdom of Jiddu Krishnamurti, namely: "It's no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

 

PS: I get you loud and clear on trading among that subset of collectors, however, I believe you nailed that one.

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brg5658

brg5658

Posted
Posted

I'm just okay with the OPs posted coin toning. I'm guessing it is quite a bit darker in hand than in the pics (given that the toning "shadows" are basically white in the photos). I do really like the flow lines you can see in the 2nd photo of the reverse through the words "STATES".

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