new purchase .. Merc Dime in a fatty NGC holder and CAC

[JIM F.]

I bought the coin. The fatty holder and CAC sticker came along for the ride.

[jom]

No offense but they CAC'd that? Unbelievable....

 

jom

[brg5658]

Congrats! Sometimes, I hate all of the negative-Nancies on here always ragging on people's taste in coins. It is HARD to tell from the pictures, but in this case I have to say I hope that the reverse looks better in hand. In the pics, it looks almost rusty.

 

 

[djdilliodon]

I gotta be honest, I don't find that coin attractive . I can see the surfaces are extremely clean but the toning on both sides just kills it imo.

[Walkerfan]

Do you want me to lie to you or tell you the truth?

 

As Jom, Brg5658 & Djdilliodon have already alluded to, the reverse is a bit splotchy.

 

If you don't want it, I'll take it, though......

 

No coin is perfect. That's how I look at it.

 

It's very crisp, clean & original.

 

Myself, all things considered, I'd be glad to own it. Congrats on your pickup!!!

[physics-fan3.14]

(MS-68) Mint State Premium Quality - Uncirculated with perfect luster, no visible contact marks to the naked eye, exceptional eye appeal. Strike is sharp and attractive.

 

Sorry, but your coin comes nowhere near that. It may have turned in the holder, but CAC definitely got that one wrong.

[noow]

Just because the toning looks bad to you doesn't mean it should be bumped down a grade or not CAC'ed. Toning should not affect the grade negatively unless it is completely black.

[JIM F.]

No worries, it goes in safe deposit box for a decade or two.

 

[Mark T]

(MS-68) Mint State Premium Quality - Uncirculated with perfect luster, no visible contact marks to the naked eye, exceptional eye appeal. Strike is sharp and attractive.

 

Sorry, but your coin comes nowhere near that. It may have turned in the holder, but CAC definitely got that one wrong.

 

Unless you have the opportunity to see the coin in hand you cannot say for sure that CAC missed on this one. We all know that pictures can often be misleading. I do not think those dark spots on the face are contact marks. Coin looks pretty smooth to me, just a guess but I bet the photo does not show the true luster of this coin .

[jom]

Unless you have the opportunity to see the coin in hand you cannot say for sure that CAC missed on this one. We all know that pictures can often be misleading.

 

That is most certainly true and I'm sorry to be a "negative nancie" but I was being honest...maybe I should have worded it better. My post was more directed to the CAC being there. I still think the CAC was way out of place. I mean, they think this coin is in the top 25% of the MS68 grade. You've got to be kidding me. I just can't imagine the photo is that off....

 

jom

[physics-fan3.14]

(MS-68) Mint State Premium Quality - Uncirculated with perfect luster, no visible contact marks to the naked eye, exceptional eye appeal. Strike is sharp and attractive.

 

Sorry, but your coin comes nowhere near that. It may have turned in the holder, but CAC definitely got that one wrong.

 

Unless you have the opportunity to see the coin in hand you cannot say for sure that CAC missed on this one. We all know that pictures can often be misleading. I do not think those dark spots on the face are contact marks. Coin looks pretty smooth to me, just a guess but I bet the photo does not show the true luster of this coin .

 

Not saying they are contact marks. Marks wise, this coin looks exceptionally clean. But I can interpret pictures well enough to know that the dark and splotchy toning are not going to get any better in hand. Or the dark spots on the obverse that are bordering on damage. That coin has significantly negative eye appeal - not the "exceptional" eye appeal required for a 68. True, the pictures may not be showing the luster well, but they do show a blunt and muted strike. A true 68 should be FB even without the designation. I'm sorry, I'm just calling it like I see it. I wouldn't pay over 66 price for that, CAC or no CAC.

[Buffalo Head]

For assigned grade of 68 I would have to agree the eye appeal's just isn't there for me, at least the images is isn't. I'll bet in hand it's much nicer, it looks as if it may be flawless but the toning on the reverse does look a little like rust. The luster must be booming....

[James_OldeTowne]

Nen doesn't usually shoot the best images, so I suspect the coin is quite a bit nicer in hand.

 

1939-D is one of the best (maybe THE best) produced dates in the dime series, and most seem to have full bands. I'm rather surprised yours doesn't!

[jom]

Nen doesn't usually shoot the best images, so I suspect the coin is quite a bit nicer in hand.

 

1939-D is one of the best (maybe THE best) produced dates in the dime series, and most seem to have full bands. I'm rather surprised yours doesn't!

 

While that is true since most of their photos look like scans...this one does not. It actually seems "alive" or what have you. I think this looks like a reasonably accurate photo...

 

jom

[noow]

Unless you have the opportunity to see the coin in hand you cannot say for sure that CAC missed on this one. We all know that pictures can often be misleading.

 

That is most certainly true and I'm sorry to be a "negative nancie" but I was being honest...maybe I should have worded it better. My post was more directed to the CAC being there. I still think the CAC was way out of place. I mean, they think this coin is in the top 25% of the MS68 grade. You've got to be kidding me. I just can't imagine the photo is that off....

 

jom

 

Incorrect. CAC does NOT certify a coin if it believes it is in the top 25% of the grade. On CAC's website, it states that a coin can be certified CAC if it is solid (average) or high-end for the grade. There are no "percents" involved. Also, it says that on some coins the great majority meets CAC's standards, while on others a very small number do.

 

caccoin.com CAC

 

A gold CAC sticker means CAC believes the coin to be undergraded by 1 point.

[James_OldeTowne]

Here's where poor communication by CAC usually leads in to the usual bickering and back-and-forth. I thought they had some secret system of determining A, B, or C grades for a coin, and only the "A"s get a special sticker, and then only the super wonderful "A"s get a gold sticker. But, they've allowed so much misinformation and nonsensical discussions to erupt that really, I don't know how their double-secret grading scheme works. And to this very day, I've yet to see any written "standards", other than some lame attempt at discussiong FBLs on Franklin dollars (if memory serves).

 

But then again, CAC stickers mean absolutely nothing to my coin collecting goals, and I haven't made any effort to seek out the answers to the above. My statements are based on threads that have popped up from time to time, plus two past phone conversations with John Albanese.

[noow]

I was just pointing something out. Not trying to argue or anything...

[rons]

Was this dime graded before NGC recognized full split bands? It looks to me as if there is a good shot for the designation with this dime. Anyone?

[jom]

Incorrect. CAC does NOT certify a coin if it believes it is in the top 25% of the grade. On CAC's website, it states that a coin can be certified CAC if it is solid (average) or high-end for the grade. There are no "percents" involved. Also, it says that on some coins the great majority meets CAC's standards, while on others a very small number do.

 

caccoin.com CAC

 

A gold CAC sticker means CAC believes the coin to be undergraded by 1 point.

 

Here's where poor communication by CAC usually leads in to the usual bickering and back-and-forth. I thought they had some secret system of determining A, B, or C grades for a coin, and only the "A"s get a special sticker, and then only the super wonderful "A"s get a gold sticker. But, they've allowed so much misinformation and nonsensical discussions to erupt that really, I don't know how their double-secret grading scheme works. And to this very day, I've yet to see any written "standards", other than some lame attempt at discussiong FBLs on Franklin dollars (if memory serves).

 

But then again, CAC stickers mean absolutely nothing to my coin collecting goals, and I haven't made any effort to seek out the answers to the above. My statements are based on threads that have popped up from time to time, plus two past phone conversations with John Albanese.

 

I stand corrected but James is right...there is a lot of "noise" out there about what CAC does and its definitions. I could swear I read about the 25% thing...maybe not exact number but I think it was the A, B, C thing.

 

However, now that I understand the definition of the CAC I find the service even more worthless to me than before. I actually knew the correct definition of the Yellow CAC (as stated by noow above) and the ones I've seen so far have literally made me "LOL". I apologize to anyone who finds the service useful but I just don't get it....

 

jom

[jom]

Was this dime graded before NGC recognized full split bands? It looks to me as if there is a good shot for the designation with this dime. Anyone?

 

Hard to tell exactly but I think I see some metal bridges there....so no FB.

 

BTW, it is true there was a time NGC didn't designate FB. I mean, I've seen rattlers at PCGS with FB so why wouldn't NGC have FB when they started? It was the following year, right?

 

jom

[lehigh96]

I am going to go against the general consensus on this coin. My guess is that the photo is not doing this coin justice at all. When grading from photos/scans, being able to predict what the coin will look like in hand is paramount. I really don't see anyone disputing the validity of the MS68 grade with respect to surface preservation which is the most important aspect of grading. The luster appears flat in the photo, but is most likely blazing in real life. As far as the eye appeal is concerned, I don't find a little dappled russet patina distracting at all. In fact, I think it adds a certain originality that a pure white dipped coin lacks. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the toning is anything to write home about, but it certainly doesn't downgrade the coin at all IMO.

 

Congrats to the OP, I like your new coin.

[djdilliodon]

I am going to go against the general consensus on this coin. My guess is that the photo is not doing this coin justice at all. When grading from photos/scans, being able to predict what the coin will look like in hand is paramount. I really don't see anyone disputing the validity of the MS68 grade with respect to surface preservation which is the most important aspect of grading. The luster appears flat in the photo, but is most likely blazing in real life. As far as the eye appeal is concerned, I don't find a little dappled russet patina distracting at all. In fact, I think it adds a certain originality that a pure white dipped coin lacks. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the toning is anything to write home about, but it certainly doesn't downgrade the coin at all IMO.

 

Congrats to the OP, I like your new coin.

 

I agree the photo most likely isn't doing this coin justice. The toning on the reverse doesn't bother me at all. Its the obverse toning that appears black that kills it for me. Hopefully when the OP gets it in hand new pics can be posted and the coin can get the respect it deserves!

[MarkFeld]

Based on the images provided, the coin doesn't look like an MS68 or attractive. BUT, since NGC graded it 68 and CAC stickered it, each of them having seen it in hand, my bet is that it looks much better in person.

 

I have seen enough coins that looked far better or worse than their images, to believe it foolish to state that an assigned grade is wrong, based solely on an image.

 

Lastly, a green CAC sticker signifies that in CAC's opinion, the coin is an A or B, but not C quality coin for the grade. And a gold sticker means they believe the coin is under-graded by one point or more. It's not nearly as complicated or confusing as some people make it out to be.

 

[leeg]

Is this a Merc thread:

 

 

66 FB

[James_OldeTowne]

Lastly, a green CAC sticker signifies that in CAC's opinion, the coin is an A or B, but not C quality coin for the grade.

It wouldn't be complicated at all IF someone would actually define the mysterious standards for those letter grades! What makes a coin a "B"? what makes it an "A"? Does a gold sticker equal an "A", or is it something "even better" than an "A"? How do strike designations get considered? and color? and cameo levels? and die characteristics?

 

It's easy to just declare that "everything with an A or B gets a sticker", but such a statement tells absolutely nothing at all about what goes into that decision. It's just a way to sidestep the myriad questions that do in fact complicate the matter.

 

But at any rate, this isn't really supposed to be a "sticker" thread. I'll just conclude by reiterating my previous comment and that of others: the images as presented probably do a very poor job of depicting the actual coin.

[MarkFeld]

Lastly, a green CAC sticker signifies that in CAC's opinion, the coin is an A or B, but not C quality coin for the grade.

It wouldn't be complicated at all IF someone would actually define the mysterious standards for those letter grades! What makes a coin a "B"? what makes it an "A"? Does a gold sticker equal an "A", or is it something "even better" than an "A"? How do strike designations get considered? and color? and cameo levels? and die characteristics?

 

It's easy to just declare that "everything with an A or B gets a sticker", but such a statement tells absolutely nothing at all about what goes into that decision. It's just a way to sidestep the myriad questions that do in fact complicate the matter.

 

But at any rate, this isn't really supposed to be a "sticker" thread. I'll just conclude by reiterating my previous comment and that of others: the images as presented probably do a very poor job of depicting the actual coin.

James, quit playing dumb. I bet that even you, know that many numismatists distinguish low end coins from high end ones, based on different characteristics, which can be unique to each coin. And that even you, think of certain coins as high end or low end for the assigned grade, for various reasons.

 

As previously stated, a gold sticker signifies a coin that CAC feels is under-graded by one point or more - it isn't complicated. So, if they award a gold sticker to a 65 coin, it means they think it is an A or B, but not a C quality 66.

 

But at least we agree on the likelihood that the coin which was the original subject of this thread, looks better than portrayed in the images.

[Walkerfan]

Is this a Merc thread:

 

 

66 FB

 

It is now!

[RGT]

I agree that James understands better than he lets on. It really is as simple as Mark says. In fact, I think it's even more simple than that. Remember that CAC makes a market in CAC certified coins. All the green bean really means is that CAC likes the coin well enough to buy it sight unseen at the certified grade. The gold bean means they will pay more than the certified grade. You can analyze it all you want but that's what it all comes down to.

 

For the record, I don't own any CAC stickered coins so I don't have a dog in this fight.

[Walkerfan]

I'm not taking anyone's side but I feel that It's pretty straight forward.

 

Even grading companies don't have specific guidelines or criteria (that they share with the public, anyway) regarding coin grade levels.

 

Subjectivity, again.

[acan451]

HI jimbucks

I think if you like it and the CAC must see something we don't then good pick up

ENJOY

Alan