It is a bad idea to underestimate or overestimate your fellow posters...

[MarkFeld]

It just hit me the other day (and should have, long ago)....

 

On numerous occasions, I have seen relatively unknown forum members on various coin forums, make highly informed and educational posts. And on the other hand, I have seen "experts" unknowingly post pure bologna.

 

Yes, credentials can be important. But not nearly as much so as what a poster actually knows and says.

[cpm9ball]

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a student of numismatics compared to many others. My knowledge is limited and selective. Sometimes someone will post information that I will accept as accurate, considering the source, while other times, I will question the validity of a statement. There are times when the information I've gained is retained as it applies to areas that interest me while other times, though not intentionally, I will forget it.

 

One thing that always rankles me is when someone makes an incorrect statement, and they refuse to admit to their mistake. I don't know whether it is pride or ego or whatever, but I've always preferred that someone correct me whenever I'm wrong. I'm not insulted by it. I have a thick skin, and I appreciate the fact that someone is willing to take the time to correct me in a positive way rather than cast insults in a negative way.

 

Chris

[123cents]

He's kind of like buy the coin not the holder. Judge the post not the poster.

[Chris1976]

I by far can't be considered an expert in any way, shape or form (at least not for coins), but I do try to help where I can by doing some on the spot research if I can. Other than that I would say that I learn more on here than I teach. And thats on thing that I feel we as a species do, we never stop learning.

 

As to which is better, underestimate or overestimate ? I'd say neither, I find it best to treat everyone equal until they have shown that they cant be viewed as a peer to learn from.

 

-Chris#2

[Oldtrader3]

Frankly, I have about given up on being able to post a question on this forum (and a few other forums as well) which requires any serious thought to question and/or get a straight answer. I am frankly surprised that anyone even tries to do so on this forum anymore. Either the post gets immediately derailed by certain individuals for their own humorous musings and/or self-serving entertainment or the post gets ignored because any people who care are probably posting somewhere elsewhere (maybe ATS) so that they might get some relevant information without all of the off-topic non sequiturs that any serious topic here immediately gets buried under.

 

The only topics here that seem to get any serious attention are ATS bannings and CAC or second party grading musings. These topics go on with endless repeated, page-long, quotations for months! I have absolutely given up on getting from this forum which is outside of the few topics that I mentioned. It has become apparent that if I want to know something about a coin topic, I will not post it here!

 

I have been a member here since this forum started and it did not used to be this way! Most of the people that I have been acquainted with here who are serious about this hobby either infrequently post here about nothing serious or they have stopped coming here altogether. I have just given up any hope whatsoever that anything serious that I may want to ask or have a question about will never be addressed unless I get co-sponsorship from someone here who can stop my topics from being buried in BS!

 

Just my frustrations with this site being put into words. Now Chris, I just left myself wide open, bury me in BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I tried a couple of times with great serious intent, to start a topic on detrial contamination of coins by professional graders and both times Chris buried me in SH** and everyone else ignored me. So much for this place being a source of any collecting enlightenment or information! You all were too busy quoting each other about CAC! I think that I am crazy to actually pay money each year for the lack of any benefit that I get from being a member here and getting to read Chris' clown act at my expense!

[physics-fan3.14]

Woah, OT3, simmer down! Some people have crusades, and they get frustrated when no one joins them. I understand. I still don't want to join your crusade.

 

 

And to the OP - yes, the date of joining here has little bearing on the actual level of expertise of the poster. Case in point - a whole bunch of recent PCGS refugees who I have personally never met before, but some of whom are quite knowledgeable. They have yet to establish a reputation here (unless you knew them over there), but they are already valuable contributors here.

[comicdonna]

Is all I have to say is, don't take any of my advice seriously.

[WinstonWare]

I have seen "experts" unknowingly post pure bologna.

 

Not sure what you mean by "experts?"

[Walkerfan]

I certainly respect OT3's opinion but I don't feel it is all that bad. OT3 and Chris have both made some insightful, intelligent & useful posts that I have been interested in from time to time. I don't think that it's all just clowning around over here.

 

As for me, I try to contribute constructively and share my knowledge, when I can or if I feel that I have something appropriate or pertinent to add that may be in my area or specialty, while at the same time learning more from others.

 

As the other Chris1976 said and I agree and I just said this to another member today, as a matter of fact: 'the learning never stops'. Everyone here has their strengths and weaknesses and everyone can be a contributor. Nothing wrong with a little humor from time to time and, yes, I have nothing further to add about CAC! I agree with that.

[MarkFeld]

Frankly, I have about given up on being able to post a question on this forum (and a few other forums as well) which requires any serious thought to question and/or get a straight answer. I am frankly surprised that anyone even tries to do so on this forum anymore. Either the post gets immediately derailed by certain individuals for their own humorous musings and/or self-serving entertainment or the post gets ignored because any people who care are probably posting somewhere elsewhere (maybe ATS) so that they might get some relevant information without all of the off-topic non sequiturs that any serious topic here immediately gets buried under.

 

The only topics here that seem to get any serious attention are ATS bannings and CAC or second party grading musings. These topics go on with endless repeated, page-long, quotations for months! I have absolutely given up on getting from this forum which is outside of the few topics that I mentioned. It has become apparent that if I want to know something about a coin topic, I will not post it here!

 

I have been a member here since this forum started and it did not used to be this way! Most of the people that I have been acquainted with here who are serious about this hobby either infrequently post here about nothing serious or they have stopped coming here altogether. I have just given up any hope whatsoever that anything serious that I may want to ask or have a question about will never be addressed unless I get co-sponsorship from someone here who can stop my topics from being buried in BS!

 

Just my frustrations with this site being put into words. Now Chris, I just left myself wide open, bury me in BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I tried a couple of times with great serious intent, to start a topic on detrial contamination of coins by professional graders and both times Chris buried me in SH** and everyone else ignored me. So much for this place being a source of any collecting enlightenment or information! You all were too busy quoting each other about CAC! I think that I am crazy to actually pay money each year for the lack of any benefit that I get from being a member here and getting to read Chris' clown act at my expense!

 

I'm sorry you feel that way. But your (off topic, ranting) post seems to be an example of the very type of thing you are complaining about.

[MarkFeld]

I have seen "experts" unknowingly post pure bologna.

 

Not sure what you mean by "experts?"

I mean acknowledged experts.

[Oldtrader3]

I have been very ill for three years now and very frustrated with this board. I am a serious (retired) professional person who would like to occasionally have a coin topic that I bring up in a serious vein be not blown off. I do not come here very often any more because I have been either ill or in the hospital for most of the past 3 years.

 

There used to be many people on this forum (who are mostly gone now) that would occasionally engender a serious collecting discussion and the atmosphere was very much more oriented towards problem discussion and solutions.

 

Jason, no offense, but this is not a crusade and I frankly do not care if you are interested in this topic or not. You have an ax to grind with me, you may feel, but take it elsewhere please.

 

It is a serious topic which needs to be addressed by the numismatic community before most of the collecting world will stop thinking of coin dealers and collectors as purely monetarily motivated and not a serious hobby worth serious investment on material which is often damaged by careless dealers and even by grading companies while in the process of handling what are essentially delicate antiques because that is what many coins are.

 

I have been collecting coins seriously since 1964 and have in that stretch of time seen many many beautiful coins turn in holders and spot to the point of seriously degrading value because of the way that this hobby and those in it handle delicate numismatic material. I personally have lost a great deal of money because of this deplorable handling of coins and probably most of you have as well. Will you talk about this topic or not?

 

For this reason, I think it is worth some time and effort to consider the way that coins and hobby materials are handled and mishandled in this hobby. Now, you can all fall back into your comfort zone and go on believing whatever you think that you are doing adds value to this hobby. The reality though is something totally different and valuable numismatic material is being damaged every day by coin dealers, collectors and even coin graders who do not know how to preserve antique material collectibles which is, at least partially, what this hobby is about.

 

Mark, I am not trying to be off topic, only trying to have a serious subject be taken seriously! Some enlightenment on this topic by dealers and any advanced hobbyists would be appreciated. Is there anyone left here who is willing to discuss a problem area such as this subject or are we to continue destroying value blithely into the future through the very nature of how we do not respect the material that we collect?

[TheMightyDuke]

It just hit me the other day (and should have, long ago)....

 

On numerous occasions, I have seen relatively unknown forum members on various coin forums, make highly informed and educational posts. And on the other hand, I have seen "experts" unknowingly post pure bologna.

 

Yes, credentials can be important. But not nearly as much so as what a poster actually knows and says.

 

Post counts can't really be considered 'credentials'. I've seen many a post from an alleged newb be way more informative (and correct) than I'd have thought from a person with a low post count. It's the quality of the post, so long as it's correct.

 

I don't claim to know alot about many (most) coin series...but there are a few specific varieties and one or two series I feel I have enough knowledge in to try to contribute.

 

As far as those that are wrong, or off topic, if one apologizes, it's better to be wrong and apologize than be wrong and not be able to admit they were wrong.

[Oldtrader3]

It has always amazed me how much insightful information that people who you may never suspect can have on subjects that one would never guess that they had knowledge of. Such is the mystery of the human mind and the understanding capabilities of all humans, experts or not. That is why it pays to listen more than talking sometimes. Just saying to paraphrase Mark.

[cpm9ball]

Frankly, I have about given up on being able to post a question on this forum (and a few other forums as well) which requires any serious thought to question and/or get a straight answer. I am frankly surprised that anyone even tries to do so on this forum anymore. Either the post gets immediately derailed by certain individuals for their own humorous musings and/or self-serving entertainment or the post gets ignored because any people who care are probably posting somewhere elsewhere (maybe ATS) so that they might get some relevant information without all of the off-topic non sequiturs that any serious topic here immediately gets buried under.

 

The only topics here that seem to get any serious attention are ATS bannings and CAC or second party grading musings. These topics go on with endless repeated, page-long, quotations for months! I have absolutely given up on getting from this forum which is outside of the few topics that I mentioned. It has become apparent that if I want to know something about a coin topic, I will not post it here!

 

I have been a member here since this forum started and it did not used to be this way! Most of the people that I have been acquainted with here who are serious about this hobby either infrequently post here about nothing serious or they have stopped coming here altogether. I have just given up any hope whatsoever that anything serious that I may want to ask or have a question about will never be addressed unless I get co-sponsorship from someone here who can stop my topics from being buried in BS!

 

Just my frustrations with this site being put into words. Now Chris, I just left myself wide open, bury me in BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I tried a couple of times with great serious intent, to start a topic on detrial contamination of coins by professional graders and both times Chris buried me in SH** and everyone else ignored me. So much for this place being a source of any collecting enlightenment or information! You all were too busy quoting each other about CAC! I think that I am crazy to actually pay money each year for the lack of any benefit that I get from being a member here and getting to read Chris' clown act at my expense!

 

OT, I'm not Khrushchev. I will not bury you. You are entitled to your opinion, and I have no problem with that.

 

What I don't think you realize, and I've said this before, is that my joking and clowning is MY WAY of maintaining my sanity. I've had many setbacks in my life, the worst came after my Mom passed, and if it weren't for my lighthearted attitude, I would probably be one of those unfortunate people who are dependent on drugs and psychiatrists to get them through each day.

 

I'm aware of the health issues that have plagued you. I don't feel sorry for you, nor do I pity you and I don't think you would want that anyway. What I do wish is that your health issues would not interfere with your posting here. If I have ever derailed one of your threads because of my joking attitude, it has never been intentional. Sometimes there are threads that interest me, but I don't have any positive information to pass along. In many instances, my interjections are MY WAY of letting the poster know that the thread has interest for me and I am watching to see what develops.

 

It's too bad that you can't understand this, but I can't, and I won't, change my life to suit you. What I can do is refrain from posting my lighthearted view of life on any threads which are started by you, but please don't expect me to adhere to this position on threads which have been started by others just because you don't like it.

 

Chris

[James_OldeTowne]

I have seen "experts" unknowingly post pure bologna.

Name names!!

 

WAY more often than it should happen, someone affiliated with a major, apparently successful coin company makes statements and claims that are utter foolishness, so I know where you're coming from. On a personal note , I try to limit the amount of nonsense that I post .

[cpm9ball]

On a personal note , I try to limit the amount of nonsense that I post .

 

Which nonsense do you mean? Ridiculous, impertinent or related?

 

Chris

[James_OldeTowne]

On a personal note , I try to limit the amount of nonsense that I post .

Which nonsense do you mean? Ridiculous, impertinent or related?

Subcutaneous is more like what I had in mind ...

[cpm9ball]

On a personal note , I try to limit the amount of nonsense that I post .

Which nonsense do you mean? Ridiculous, impertinent or related?

Subcutaneous is more like what I had in mind ...

 

Yeah, I kinda get that way when I have a hangnail, too!

 

Chris

[shirohniichan]

I have seen "experts" unknowingly post pure bologna.

Name names!!

 

WAY more often than it should happen, someone affiliated with a major, apparently successful coin company makes statements and claims that are utter foolishness, so I know where you're coming from. On a personal note , I try to limit the amount of nonsense that I post .

 

Although he's not a post-mortem member of our community, some fancies of expert Walter Breen have remained for years. Take for example the alleged bruhaha that accompanied the release of the 1916 SL Quarter. The lack of such a reaction to be found in press archives now has us figuring he made up the story.

 

If one is going to speculate, just note that it is your speculation and not write it as established fact.

[Kurtdog]

It is a serious topic which needs to be addressed by the numismatic community before most of the collecting world will stop thinking of coin dealers and collectors as purely monetarily motivated and not a serious hobby worth serious investment on material which is often damaged by careless dealers and even by grading companies while in the process of handling what are essentially delicate antiques because that is what many coins are.

 

I have been collecting coins seriously since 1964 and have in that stretch of time seen many many beautiful coins turn in holders and spot to the point of seriously degrading value because of the way that this hobby and those in it handle delicate numismatic material. I personally have lost a great deal of money because of this deplorable handling of coins and probably most of you have as well. Will you talk about this topic or not?

 

For this reason, I think it is worth some time and effort to consider the way that coins and hobby materials are handled and mishandled in this hobby. Now, you can all fall back into your comfort zone and go on believing whatever you think that you are doing adds value to this hobby. The reality though is something totally different and valuable numismatic material is being damaged every day by coin dealers, collectors and even coin graders who do not know how to preserve antique material collectibles which is, at least partially, what this hobby is about.

 

Mark, I am not trying to be off topic, only trying to have a serious subject be taken seriously! Some enlightenment on this topic by dealers and any advanced hobbyists would be appreciated. Is there anyone left here who is willing to discuss a problem area such as this subject or are we to continue destroying value blithely into the future through the very nature of how we do not respect the material that we collect?

Oldtrader3, what's your first word, here, "It?" Is that "coin doctoring?" If it is "coin doctoring," start a thread on it, I'll be there.

[Oldtrader3]

No Chris, what you are actively doing is passive-aggressive behavior with which you demean others and followed by not taking responsibility for doing so. At best, it is destructive childishness at worst, it destroys any meaningful dialogue by people who took the trouble to post a reasonable question in the first place.

 

Until the days of the internet, no one behaved or acting in a rudely (trollish) manner by ridiculing others posts in a manner that killed the post entirely. This behavior has now found new expression by people who set out to derail other people's thoughts and dialogue through their selfish and oafish behavior. I do not believe that your late parents would condone this behavior either!

 

I once actually was nearly convinced that you were friendly towards me in the past. Any feelings of friendship toward you have been thoroughly mitigated by your boorish behavior over the past several years toward me and others. Do not blame me for your behavior. My own behavior is boorish enough in desperate response to your running me over with a clown truck every time that I post something serious!.

[WinstonWare]

I have seen "experts" unknowingly post pure bologna.

Not sure what you mean by "experts?"

I mean acknowledged experts.

Hmmm I hope I'm listening to the right people then. One positive indication, at least in my mind, is that I have sold a few coins from a member here whom I read the posts of very closely. When I do sell their coins to dealers the dealers have been very complementary of the coins and paid good prices for them.

[Oldtrader3]

Hard to know Winston. You have been at this a while and most of us have a few decent dealers that we purchase most of our coins from, at least I do. Now I have bought bad coins (doctored) from some of the largest, best known dealers in this business, so anyone can be taken occasionally, even by accident sometimes. In their defense, maybe these dealers were suckered as well.

 

Hopefully, we all get better at this and learn the hard way. There never has been an easy way in this hobby, at least that I am aware of. TPG's have at least, focused on doctored coins which helps all of us.

[MarkFeld]

I have seen "experts" unknowingly post pure bologna.

Not sure what you mean by "experts?"

I mean acknowledged experts.

Hmmm I hope I'm listening to the right people then. One positive indication, at least in my mind, is that I have sold a few coins from a member here whom I read the posts of very closely. When I do sell their coins to dealers the dealers have been very complementary of the coins and paid good prices for them.

That's a very good sign.

 

As a general example of "bologna", I have occasionally seen an expert or two look at an on line image and declare a genuine coin to be counterfeit. And on more than one occasion, I, myself, was fooled by on-line images of a counterfeit coin and mistakenly opined that the coin looked genuine.

[RWB]

Sometimes, there is simply minimal interest in the subject of a particular post. It happens to everyone, and all you can do is wait a few weeks and try again.

[Dcoin]

Like everything in life, sometimes the things that resonate are the bits and pieces in the most unlikely places.

 

Some of the most meaningful things I've learned have come from the simplest of sources.

[HiHoAudio]

Some of the most meaningful things I've learned have come from the simplest of sources.

 

Well said. And completely true.

 

I come here to learn and to be entertained. My job is very stressful and there are times when a joke made by Chris will really brighten my day. But I tend to be a bit of a wiseguy myself.

 

I have learned more from James_EarlyUS than I can possibly even remember or recount. Plus there are Conder experts here more than willing to share everything they know.

 

I also come here because unlike Coin Talk we pretty much all get along and there are no trolls or rampant ego maniacs ruining things.

 

This is my happy place. It would be a sad day if this changed. :frown:

[cpm9ball]

No Chris, what you are actively doing is passive-aggressive behavior with which you demean others and followed by not taking responsibility for doing so. At best, it is destructive childishness at worst, it destroys any meaningful dialogue by people who took the trouble to post a reasonable question in the first place.

 

Until the days of the internet, no one behaved or acting in a rudely (trollish) manner by ridiculing others posts in a manner that killed the post entirely. This behavior has now found new expression by people who set out to derail other people's thoughts and dialogue through their selfish and oafish behavior. I do not believe that your late parents would condone this behavior either!

 

I once actually was nearly convinced that you were friendly towards me in the past. Any feelings of friendship toward you have been thoroughly mitigated by your boorish behavior over the past several years toward me and others. Do not blame me for your behavior. My own behavior is boorish enough in desperate response to your running me over with a clown truck every time that I post something serious!.

 

You know, Charlie, I was going to let all of this slide considering your health issues, but I’ve changed my mind. You stooped to a new low when you demeaned the memory of my parents, and I resent that more than anything. My Dad was a better man than you will ever be.

 

Before the Allied invasion of Normandy, my Dad contracted a severe case of pneumonia that almost killed him, but he wasn’t about to let that stop him. He was a combat medic on Omaha Beach, and he remained on the front lines continuously until the day he was captured.

 

Mom and I did our best to make his last few years as comfortable as possible for him, but he never complained. Sometimes, he wouldn’t understand the meaning of a joke, and Mom and I would realize how hard he was trying to comprehend when he would finally get it and laugh two or three days later. It made us want to cry. In the end, you could see the look of desperation in his eyes as he drew his last breath, but he never complained.

 

You say that I have repeatedly derailed YOUR threads. Well, this isn’t your thread, and neither was “Grader’s Breath”. You probably didn’t even notice that my first post here and on Augustus’ “Grader’s Breath” were statements made in complete sincerity. No! You saw my username, and you went off like a rocket. So, tell me, where are all these threads of yours that I have supposedly derailed? There was only one that I recall, and it was in my first year on these forums. It wasn’t even derailed, but I did inject some of my humor. You sent me a PM expressing your feelings, and I apologized. I guess you’ve never forgotten that. So, what do you expect me to do, Charlie, get down on bended knees and pay homage to you whenever you walk into the room? It ain’t gonna happen!

 

I’ve always lived my life believing that if you could make another person laugh, even if for just a fleeting moment, then you have made the world a better place for that person. I’m not going to change, Charlie, and I won’t allow you to dictate how I should conduct myself on these forums. If another member who starts a thread objects to my bit of humor, that is between us, and you have no say in the matter.

 

In my earlier response to you, I said that I believed that you wouldn’t want anyone to feel sorry for you. I guess I was wrong. Do you want everyone to feel as rotten about life as you? I can take a bit of comfort in the fact knowing that if I left these forums, you would just find someone else to blame for your problems, and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. I also said that I didn’t pity you, but I was wrong there, too. I do pity you, Charlie, because you have forgotten how to laugh. Life is too short as it is, and our control over matters is limited to the here and now. If all one can do is find reasons to complain without taking the time to stop and smell the roses, then life is meaningless.

 

Chris

 

[Oldtrader3]

Chris, grow up! I did not in any way dishonor your parents. I did not even know them. Quit crying like a little girl and take some responsibility for your own action!