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Can you guess the grades of these 2 1919 Buffs? GRADES REVEALED...

Started by Buffalo Head,

20 posts in this topic

Buffalo Head

Buffalo Head

Posted
Posted

Here's a couple of nice Buffs. Both have been graded with a numerical grade and both share the same date. One has been graded by PCGS and the other by NGC. Please grade these two Buffs and explain how you arrive at your decision. Or just guess the grades.

Thanks for playing guess the grades. I'll post the answer along with images of the slabs tomorrow evening....Joe

 

078-1.jpg

079-2.jpg

083.jpg

084.jpg

081-3.jpg

082-1.jpg

 

It's my opinion the PCGS coin is over graded and not one person guessed MS-65 which is the grade assigned. The NGC coin goes the other way as I feel this coin is UNDER graded . So, if someone can explain why these two Buffs received the grades they did I would like to here it. The luster of the PCGS 65 coin is nothing special so this can not explain this grade away. I like you am a collector of coins and my series are Buffalo Nickels, I love this coin and read everything about them I can. I also handle many of these coins and look at many graded Buffs at coin shows, but I am not a professional grader but when I look at coins graded like this it make me second guess myself and how I understand this grading business. Thanks to all for playing ....Guess the grades.....Joe

 

097.jpg

098.jpg

093-2.jpg

 

Just for the heck of it here's an ANACS MS-63 for ya to look at...Thanks again....Joe

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lehigh96

lehigh96

Posted
Posted

MS66* Exceptional eye appeal, strong strike and good luster

AU55 Weak strike may be causing some of the flat areas but others spots must be the result of wear. Despite the attractive toning, the surfaces, strike, and luster would limit the grade to MS63 if it didn't have wear.

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robec1347

robec1347

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Well the NGC Buffalo definitely has the better strike. Both are nicely toned. I've seen Lincoln's and Buffalo's with weak strikes, making the coin look no better than AU50, but actually grade mid to high MS. If that is the case here, I'd rather have the NGC example.

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

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Damn these buffernicks. They are without a doubt, the hardest coin series for me to grade.

 

I put the first one at MS-65 - a good strike, strong luster, and fantastic toning make a very desirable coin.

 

The second one? I can see arguments for AU-55, due to the apparent wear on the high points. If its not wear, then I place a high end boundary on the grade at 63, due to the weaker strike, absent luster, and large marks in prime focal areas.

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jom

jom

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I'd grade the NGC coin MS65 or 66. Great strike and eye appeal. I assume the luster is there as well.

 

The PCGS coin is a possible slider. The Buffalo's hip looks flat and in the vast majority of cases that is AU. Usually the strike isn't a problem in that area...the Buffalo's head and shoulder/front leg usually bear the brunt of a bad strike and is not wear. However, that hit that is just above the bottom of the Buff that is slanted from 11 to 5 o'clock is possibly a circulation hit.

 

It is a very attractive coin however. Certainly no worse than AU58 (or MS63 depending whether it's wear or not).

 

jom

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Buffalo Head

Buffalo Head

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Any more guesses? I'll post the answer and I think you'll all be very surprised ! So now's the time, I know there's a lot of Buffalo experts out there. So come on folks lets hear some more guesses. Show us what ya got.....

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Dcoin

Dcoin

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I'm going to go with 65 (nick on foreleg and semi-soft tail and liberty, hold it back from 66)

 

And AU63 on the second.

 

I'd be proud to own to either!

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Buffalo Head

Buffalo Head

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64 and 65, the 64 exhibits die erosion, the 65 has obverse die strength

 

Where in the world do you see die strength on the PCGS obverse? And again where do you see die erosion on the NGC coin? The PGCS coin is a very weak strike and for the date it goes with the territory as shown in the knot and the hair of Iron tail and the "Liberty" and the "date." The NGC coin is quite strong in these areas. For my money the NGC coin is superior in every way and should have received the higher grade.

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jom

jom

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64 and 65, the 64 exhibits die erosion, the 65 has obverse die strength

 

Where in the world do you see die strength on the PCGS obverse? And again where do you see die erosion on the NGC coin? The PGCS coin is a very weak strike and for the date it goes with the territory as shown in the knot and the hair of Iron tail and the "Liberty" and the "date." The NGC coin is quite strong in these areas. For my money the NGC coin is superior in every way and should have received the higher grade.

 

This is a good example of how coins can't be graded with photos. You really can't tell if it has rub or what the luster looks like. Strike, however, is a lot easier and you are correct. I think Fishfinder meant the grades the other way around. 65 then 64, just the opposite of what it turned out to be...and the die erosion is the PCGS coin.

 

Whatever the case, the NGC coins is a 64 star at worst and the PCGS coin might be a 63+ if you compare it to the ANACS example.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if we could just get every graded coin of a certain date and just line them up from top to bottom? You'd then see how WAY off the grading services can be at times. It would also put an end to this ridiculous perception that somehow PCGS is superior.

 

jom

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Buffalo Head

Buffalo Head

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64 and 65, the 64 exhibits die erosion, the 65 has obverse die strength

 

Where in the world do you see die strength on the PCGS obverse? And again where do you see die erosion on the NGC coin? The PGCS coin is a very weak strike and for the date it goes with the territory as shown in the knot and the hair of Iron tail and the "Liberty" and the "date." The NGC coin is quite strong in these areas. For my money the NGC coin is superior in every way and should have received the higher grade.

 

This is a good example of how coins can't be graded with photos. You really can't tell if it has rub or what the luster looks like. Strike, however, is a lot easier and you are correct. I think Fishfinder meant the grades the other way around. 65 then 64, just the opposite of what it turned out to be...and the die erosion is the PCGS coin.

 

Whatever the case, the NGC coins is a 64 star at worst and the PCGS coin might be a 63+ if you compare it to the ANACS example.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if we could just get every graded coin of a certain date and just line them up from top to bottom? You'd then see how WAY off the grading services can be at times. It would also put an end to this ridiculous perception that somehow PCGS is superior.

 

jom

 

I totally agree with that 100% ! I like the idea of lining them up as each date is different in it's own way

.

buffs are hard to grade! Keep up the beautiful collection Buffalo Head

I also agree with the Buffs are a very hard coin to fully understand and I love the challenge

 

Thanks for all of the help and replys....Joe

 

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