eBay Seller/Buyer oddity and question..what's your opinion?

[jom]

My problem with your argument is that all price guides are inaccurate to a degree and price changes can take a long time to reflect the new data. A buyer may want to buy coin X with a price guide value of $100, but the current market only truly supports $75. In this instance, the buyer is paying 133% of current market price. No matter how well read and informed a potential is, there is no one who can state that they are up to date on contemporaneous market conditions for every coin.

 

True but happens with every transaction not just shilled auctions. You can over pay at a dealer's table or at any fair auction.

 

jom

[Vistula-migration]

When I'm interested in an item on eBay, I will routinely check the bidders.

If I see a low feedback rating with a bidding percentage above 30%-40%,

I'll stay away from it.

Actually, if you look at the auction in question, the seller has utilized 2 shill bidders. One of them with 100% bidding activity with a 13 feedback.

Some sellers have several eBay accounts to utilize the shill system.

If they cheat on the bidding, I can't trust the item they are selling.

 

[James_OldeTowne]

For me, the issue of "shill bidding" is irrelevant in this case. If it involves "Great Southern Coin", I would stay away, far far away.

[Morgan Mark-migration]

Many thanks to Mark, James, Jom, etc. and everyone who has responded. As usual in my life, I have to learn everything the hard (and expensive) way. Ya'll have provided excellent guidance and someday I hope to have enough knowledge to make decent "investments". Right now I'm just enjoying learning about (and buying) many different coins/series. My next step is to learn a bit about grading......thanks again.

 

Mark

[e1cnr]

if a bidder only searches by seller - other items listed - they will have most bids with them

 

a much bigger problem in this case is photomanipulation - making marks and abrasions disappear

 

you should consider yourself lucky that you did not win the item and not worry so much about a shill - how high were you willing to go? it went higher than that

 

I am not sure how they do it, but they frequently get MS65 or higher prices on raw material

 

 

I bought something from them years ago, and get their weekly emails of new listings

[mtnstyne]

I think it is more plausible that the buyer is just comortable with GSC as a seller and maybe has a lot of money to spend and not very smart at collecting coins. My father is very much like this...he buys garbage coins at high prices almost exclusively on eBay and when he shows them to me all I can do is smile and tell him how nice they are. I have tried to "coach" him, but he enjoys his coins and I think he does it to "bond" with me since he started collecting after I was into it.

 

As far as shill bidding, if GSC lists something low and then uses a "shill" to push up the price and that "shill" wins then they aren't making any money at all. At an average cost of 13% to sell a coin (excluding shipping) I doubt this would be a benificial strategy to increase profits.

 

If you list an auction starting at $1 and it ends at $550 with no reserve the fees are $49.27.

 

If you list an auction starting at $1 and it ends at $550 with a $500 reserve the fees are $56.30.

 

If you list an auction starting at $500 and it ends at $550 the fees are $51.50.

 

Yes there is a difference, but it is a matter of about 1%.

 

As far as eBay not policing...lets say that the account is a shill and GSC files a bunch of non-paying buyers compaints against it's shill account (which it would have to do in order to not pay the fees), and eBay doesn't catch on...well, that is why most people on here recommend not doing business with either of them.

 

Just my thoughts. I guess one way would be to watch and see if GSC relists the coin.

 

Edit: I just scanned GSC's feedback and realized what a small fish I am in this hobby...he has a very strong, wealthy, group of customers who buy from him/her loyally.

[gmarguli]

As far as shill bidding, if GSC lists something low and then uses a "shill" to push up the price and that "shill" wins then they aren't making any money at all. At an average cost of 13% to sell a coin (excluding shipping) I doubt this would be a benificial strategy to increase profits.

 

That average cost is way too high - figure 6% on average for the type of stuff this person sells. There are going to be no PayPal fees since the item will not be paid for thru PayPal.

 

If you list an auction starting at $1 and it ends at $550 with no reserve the fees are $49.27.

 

Fees are $24.48 for a regular seller with a store. They are $19.60 for this seller as a Top-Rated Seller.

 

If you list an auction starting at $1 and it ends at $550 with a $500 reserve the fees are $56.30.

 

$26.50

 

If you list an auction starting at $500 and it ends at $550 the fees are $51.50.

 

$21.50

 

As far as eBay not policing...lets say that the account is a shill and GSC files a bunch of non-paying buyers compaints against it's shill account (which it would have to do in order to not pay the fees), and eBay doesn't catch on...well, that is why most people on here recommend not doing business with either of them.

 

No need for the NPB. Just cancel the transaction. Or process it as a return. Or eat the eBay fees.

 

[Dcoin]

This type of shill amounts to a hidden "reserve" on the auction.

 

More damaging in my opinion is when a shill will raise at the end of an auction. This takes time, so it happens less then other types of shills.

[Vistula-migration]

I took a few minutes and looked over some of his listings.

This is the biggest shill bidding seller I have ever seen.

It's amazing eBay has not caught this guy.

[gmarguli]

I took a few minutes and looked over some of his listings.

This is the biggest shill bidding seller I have ever seen.

It's amazing eBay has not caught this guy.

 

He must do at least $100K a month in sales. That generates around $7K in fees for eBay/PayPal. Why would they want to catch someone like that? They will go out of their way not to catch someone like that.

[Keigwin]

If a seller wants to protect his investment it should be done through a reserve or a starting price, not a shill. Unfortunately, some sellers don't do that because they want to induce bidding frenzies and want lower seller fees. They use shills to bump up the prices.

 

That is improper for this auction site. It violates ebay rules and cheats bidders who understandably hope to get a bargain now and then. That's part of the ebay allure for no reserve, low starting price auctions.

Lance.

[Vistula-migration]

I took a few minutes and looked over some of his listings.

This is the biggest shill bidding seller I have ever seen.

It's amazing eBay has not caught this guy.

 

He must do at least $100K a month in sales. That generates around $7K in fees for eBay/PayPal. Why would they want to catch someone like that? They will go out of their way not to catch someone like that.

 

You have a great point! Greed is good for eBay!

[World Colonial]

I am not sure how they do it, but they frequently get MS65 or higher prices on raw material

 

What I have never understood is, why would someone even bother to buy that type of coin or others like it raw and if they even notice it, from someone who might be a questionable seller?

 

I was too lazy to check the going rate on this coin, but I am pretty sure that "Choice BU +/Near Gem BU" (which I equate to an MS-63 or MS-64) sells for a lot more than the $539 final price. If it does, I would rate the chances of getting a correctly graded coin "on the cheap" at essentially zero. There are simply too many knowledgeable collectors of US coins out there to make it likely.

 

Or, if it approximates fair value, then there is no point to it at all. You might as well buy a graded one at it's known price and avoid the risk of buying an overgraded (or even worse) counterfeit coin.

[MarkFeld]

I am not sure how they do it, but they frequently get MS65 or higher prices on raw material

 

What I have never understood is, why would someone even bother to buy that type of coin or others like it raw and if they even notice it, from someone who might be a questionable seller?

 

I was too lazy to check the going rate on this coin, but I am pretty sure that "Choice BU +/Near Gem BU" (which I equate to an MS-63 or MS-64) sells for a lot more than the $539 final price. If it does, I would rate the chances of getting a correctly graded coin "on the cheap" at essentially zero. There are simply too many knowledgeable collectors of US coins out there to make it likely.

 

Or, if it approximates fair value, then there is no point to it at all. You might as well buy a graded one at it's known price and avoid the risk of buying an overgraded (or even worse) counterfeit coin.

The allure of a potential bargain causes many people to act foolishly. And allows certain sellers to make a lot of money, taking advantage of that greed and behavior.

[$ilverHawk]

So true. GSC is an internet coin processor doing whatever it takes to make the sale. Their marketing is based on volumn not quality. GSC preys on newbies and greedy collectors out to make a quick turn.

 

I bought once and returned the coin. Lesson learned.

 

$ilverHawk

[cpm9ball]

What I have never understood is, why would someone even bother to buy that type of coin or others like it raw and if they even notice it, from someone who might be a questionable seller?

 

It's no different on eBay than it is on QVC, HSN, Coin Vault, etc. They prey on the impulse buyers who know practically nothing about numismatics.

 

On another coin forum, hardly a week goes by when a newcomer to the hobby doesn't post about coins they just bought and wants to know if they did okay (AFTER THE FACT!) You'd think they would try to learn something about what they're buying before pulling the trigger, but that isn't always the case. I guess it's like shopping at the grocery store on an empty stomach.

 

Chris

[Dudley the 1st]

I just picked up on this thread , and looked at some of this sellers offerings. I have to agree completely that a good many of this sellers offerings are nothing short of problem coins being hawked at grades that just don't qualify . Mark this seller as one to stay away from .