• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

What I kept from the type deal

Started by Tradedollarnut,

36 posts in this topic

Tradedollarnut

Tradedollarnut

Posted
Posted

By special request, here's the 4 coins that I kept from Legend's recent big type deal:

 

1) The Mickley specimen S-1 Ameri Chain Cent. Graded SP65BN by PCGS. Quite possibly the first coin ever struck at the US Mint. Beautiful life to the coin with semi prooflike mirrors, swirling luster and mint sheen on the devices.

 

19741374.jpg

 

 

2) PCGS PR65 1853 Arrows and Rays half. One of the finest of only 5 known. I had recently purchased an MS65+ for my type set, but this coin is definitely something spectacular so I kept it over the circulation strike.

 

19749810.jpg

 

 

3) The Eliasberg 1799/8 dollar. Graded MS65 by PCGS [MS66 by NGC]. Finest known for the overdate. Beautiful iridescent toning on top of swirling luster.

 

19745632.jpg

 

 

4) The finest known orignal issue Gobrecht dollar of any date or type. Graded PR66 by PCGS and NGC. Absolutely stunning quality with iridescent sheen on the devices and partial cartwheel luster on the reverse.

 

19444770.jpg

 

 

Each of these coins epitomizes what I want to have in my collection. After completing the trade dollar and seated dollar sets, I've struggled with what to collect next. I gravitate toward two things - type and bust dollars. The problem with bust dollars is that the set just can't be done in spectacular condition - the Pogues have all the finest knowns, the balance are locked away in type collections and I hesitate to have gems next to AU's in any set. The problem with doing a type set is that I just don't care about the later issues ... and spectacular early issues are as rare as hen's teeth. So... what I've decided to do is to ignore completion of any set and just collect spectacular early coins that speak to me. Those are what I desire to own and I'm going to try to resist the urge to buy whatever to complete a set. We'll see how long that lasts! lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites
e1cnr

e1cnr

Posted
Posted

very nice

 

 

and I like that you feel it better to just collect great coins

rather than limit yourself to great coins in a series to complete that series

Link to comment
Share on other sites
chinook

chinook

Posted
Posted

Thank you for sharing TDN. Absolutely beautiful!!!

 

With so many great coins hidden away in cabinets or bank vaults, I find it refreshing and inspiring that you choose to share your collection with us.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
C.I.

C.I.

Posted
Posted

The word "Stunning" is a bit week for these. My first thoughts include: :golfclap:, :applause:, and a large (worship). Nice seeing these beauties out for the public to see. Thanks for sharing.

 

Chet

Link to comment
Share on other sites
WoodenJefferson

WoodenJefferson

Posted
Posted

Very nice, I'm certain these four coins shown represent a substantial investment...7 digit wise.

 

edit: I take back what I said about us being chopped liver, we reached the level of a fine pate'

Link to comment
Share on other sites
rrantique

rrantique

Posted
Posted
Absolutely stellar, marvelous coins! I'd love to see the pedigree chain on the Gobrecht dollar, and the proof half.

 

adc74e1e.gif

 

I'll take the throw backs. :hi:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SkyMan

SkyMan

Posted
Posted

First off, those are frigging GORGEOUS coins TDN!!! Congratulations on adding such beautiful numismatic artwork to your collection. :golfclap:

 

 

 

Thank you for sharing TDN. Absolutely beautiful!!!

 

With so many great coins hidden away in cabinets or bank vaults, I find it refreshing and inspiring that you choose to share your collection with us.

 

 

 

Second, I absolutely agree with the above. While I can understand that some people may have security concerns about their coins, it doesn't take a genius to realize that given the internet, a person can hide who they are and still share their coins with the greater numismatic community. One of the things that really bugs me about the Registries is that people can hide what is in their collection. I have no problem if someone wants to hide their coins, but if that is the case then they shouldn't be on a public forum like a Registry. Anyhow, I'd like to Applaud and Thank You TDN for sharing these coins with us... the junkies of the coin boards. We, like you, happen to Love seeing these sort of items and appreciate people like yourself who share these Beauties. Best of luck with finding the next coin that will float your boat!!! I think that all of us on the boards look forward to seeing it, and hope that you have fun in the interim looking at these Wonderful coins.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mtnstyne

mtnstyne

Posted
Posted

I just dropped a "holy $#@!" in my living room after looking at those! All I can say is incredible... (worship)

 

Remember that thread about what to invest in if we suddenly had $250,000 to spend...one coin or a bunch of bullion...I go with one coin after looking at these.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
Posted

The Mickley chain cent is the plate coin used in Noyes, and as amazing as it is, it's probably "only" the third or fourth finest known of all the best chain cents. It's an EAC 63, and #1 in the condition census for S-1, and also struck from the earliest die state, although I'm not so sure "specimen strike" is an appropriate term. You can see the planchet flaw through OF, and since mint employees inspected every individual planchet by hand, there is no way in heck they would have selected a "faulty" planchet for use in a specimen striking! Unfortunately, the plate image in the book is not very good (the PCGS image is much better, but there are still better, more realistic images out there).

 

Most collectors only ever see well worn chain cents, so they don't realize that these coins were struck with "spaghetti" hair. All the high grade examples have this level of remarkably sharp detail. The early mint had something to prove to the rest of the world about their minting capabilities!

 

If you want to see some really amazing, deep relief on our earliest copper, take a look at a few of the finest Wreath cents. The mint began to get very brave, and engraved some nice relief on Liberty's flowing hair portrait, and of course, the wreath details on the reverse are very intricate. On a personal note, from an aesthetic standpoint, I prefer wreath cents over chain cents, but of course, the chain cents will always hold a special numismatic precedence as the earlier copper type struck.

 

Finally, I believe the birch cents of December, 1792 predate striking of the chain cents struck in March, 1793, making it absolutely impossible for any chain cent to be considered the "first coin struck by the U.S. mint". Birch cents were apparently minted on the mint premises and on mint equipment (dismes and half-dismes were not minted on the site of the U.S. mint).

 

I hope I have these facts straight, and welcome any corrections. Regardless, the Mickley chain cent is a national treasure, as far as I'm concerned. Congratulations on owning it -- keep her safe!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Catbert

Catbert

Posted
Posted

James - thanks for the very educational post and Bruce, what a coin! I bet you're exhilarated in acquiring such an incredible piece of history.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tradedollarnut

Tradedollarnut

Posted
  • Author
Posted
The Mickley chain cent is the plate coin used in Noyes, and as amazing as it is, it's probably "only" the third or fourth finest known of all the best chain cents. It's an EAC 63, and #1 in the condition census for S-1, and also struck from the earliest die state, although I'm not so sure "specimen strike" is an appropriate term. You can see the planchet flaw through OF, and since mint employees inspected every individual planchet by hand, there is no way in heck they would have selected a "faulty" planchet for use in a specimen striking! Unfortunately, the plate image in the book is not very good (the PCGS image is much better, but there are still better, more realistic images out there).

 

Most collectors only ever see well worn chain cents, so they don't realize that these coins were struck with "spaghetti" hair. All the high grade examples have this level of remarkably sharp detail. The early mint had something to prove to the rest of the world about their minting capabilities!

 

If you want to see some really amazing, deep relief on our earliest copper, take a look at a few of the finest Wreath cents. The mint began to get very brave, and engraved some nice relief on Liberty's flowing hair portrait, and of course, the wreath details on the reverse are very intricate. On a personal note, from an aesthetic standpoint, I prefer wreath cents over chain cents, but of course, the chain cents will always hold a special numismatic precedence as the earlier copper type struck.

 

Finally, I believe the birch cents of December, 1792 predate striking of the chain cents struck in March, 1793, making it absolutely impossible for any chain cent to be considered the "first coin struck by the U.S. mint". Birch cents were apparently minted on the mint premises and on mint equipment (dismes and half-dismes were not minted on the site of the U.S. mint).

 

I hope I have these facts straight, and welcome any corrections. Regardless, the Mickley chain cent is a national treasure, as far as I'm concerned. Congratulations on owning it -- keep her safe!!

 

Okkkk - first regular issue coin struck by the US Mint. And when John Albanese saw the coin, he stated that the planchet erupted during striking. So no apparent flaw that size before being struck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
Posted
And when John Albanese saw the coin, he stated that the planchet erupted during striking. So no apparent flaw that size before being struck.

Has John read any of Russ Logan's research on early mint operations? I may be wrong, but am pretty sure it's impossible for a planchet flaw to become enlarged while the planchet is struck. It can only diminish. The only exception would be if there were an internal bubble in the planchet, one that might suddenly break open upon being struck. But then, it seems extremely unlikely it would be linear in shape. And for doggone sure, the early mint would NOT have considered such a coin suitable for presentation as a "specimen"!

 

You can see similar attributes for silver-plug dollars. When the plugs were inserted, there would have been a ragged "flaw" all the way around the plug. But striking the dollars eradicated evidence of the edges of the plug. That's why so many escaped detection for 200 years.

 

I just think use of the term "specimen strike" should be extremely judicious. I am definitely not critiquing the Mickley coin at all!!!! It's spectacular!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tradedollarnut

Tradedollarnut

Posted
  • Author
Posted

The only exception would be if there were an internal bubble in the planchet, one that might suddenly break open upon being struck.

 

As I alluded to when I said 'erupted'

 

But then, it seems extremely unlikely it would be linear in shape.

 

Conjecture

 

And for doggone sure, the early mint would NOT have considered such a coin suitable for presentation as a "specimen"!

 

More conjecture.

 

What do you call a fully struck, prooflike early die state flowing hair coin? In my world, they're called specimens. I still have somewhere the 2nd thru 5th trade dollars ever struck. They're butt ugly but they are what they are ... just because a coin has a flaw doesn't disqualify it from being what it [possibly] is...

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mhomei

mhomei

Posted
Posted

that is too cool, thanks for posting the pics and giving your thoughts as well

I know they will never be in my collection but I love the fact that these are what the coins looked like with all the detail..stunning...

not like all worn out slugs I get to look at in those years

Link to comment
Share on other sites
James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
Posted
The only exception would be if there were an internal bubble in the planchet, one that might suddenly break open upon being struck.

 

As I alluded to when I said 'erupted'

 

But then, it seems extremely unlikely it would be linear in shape.

 

Conjecture

 

And for doggone sure, the early mint would NOT have considered such a coin suitable for presentation as a "specimen"!

 

More conjecture.

I agree, just as calling the coin a "specimen" is conjecture. But that's what's so much fun about these early coins :) !

 

What do you call a fully struck, prooflike early die state flowing hair coin? In my world, they're called specimens.

It would depend on the provenance, which I believe most early coin specialists would agree is THE critical factor (if not the only one) in determining whether an early coin is a specimen (special) strike or not. And "early die state" is one thing, while "prime die state" is another.

 

Interestingly, many known specimen strikings that are documented back to the day of their manufacture were NOT struck off of early dies! Rather, existing dies were specially prepared, as were the blanks, for the meticulous production. I would be looking for evidence of struck-through threads in the surface of the coin, and testing the precise diameter versus that of non-specimen coins, as specimens tend to be at the upper end of the diameter range. I'd also want to see the edge lettering, as this is another area where the mint was likely meticulous in their methods for presentation pieces.

 

I was going to comment earlier that the Mickley coin deserves to be in an EdgeView holder (if it must be slabbed at all), but then, I'd sound too much like a homer lol . The gloopy, gloppy PCGS insert hides 1/3 of the coin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Go to topic listing