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1884 S$1 Old Green Holder

Started by coinman_23885,

23 posts in this topic

coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
Posted

Please guess the grade on the holder in addition to providing your opinion as to what you believe that the coin would grade today. I'm contemplating buying the coin, and I feel the coin is a potential upgrade. It is a 1st generation rattler.

 

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

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It almost looks like an MS-64, with images that make it look like an easy MS-65. That being said, there's hazy stuff on the surfaces that may be evidence of doctoring prior to being placed in the slab (in other words, it looks dipped and/or tampered with).

 

It's also possible that it's an AU-58 that has seen the barest amount of rub, and that's the reason for the haze. That would explain the fingerprints as well - handling from circulation.

 

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$ilverHawk

$ilverHawk

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1884 P is known for an average to bold strike. There is weakness in the hair above the ear. Good solid reverse.

 

Comparing the photos to a PCGS MS65 that I have this coin is not struck as sharply. I like the clean look of this coin. Fingerprint is mildly distracting. Solid MS64 weak MS65.

 

I'll go with MS65. I don't believe this coin could grade higher than that.

 

$ilverHawk

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mtnstyne

mtnstyne

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I guess it is graded MS64 and I would say MS64+ if PCGS but only MS64 maybe MS65 NGC. I don't like the week strike and fingerprint as well as the mark in the field below her chin. I am thinking different photos would show much more detail.

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

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Do you think that if the coin was dipped and the finger prints removed that it may go MS65 or higher? P.S. The coin is in a MS65 holder. Because of the clean cheek, I thought there might be a shot at an upgrade provided that the chatter on the reverse wasn't too much. I can see why someone may say MS64, but what appears to be chatter on the obverse looks more like haze. If you think that the coin has been doctored, I'll stay away.

 

 

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$ilverHawk

$ilverHawk

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Your coin is in a first generation PCGS holder. Common belief was that many coins graded during this early period were conservatively graded and could be potentialy upgraded under current standards.The vast majority of those coins that could be cracked out and resubmitted for upgrades has already been done. The remaining coins in these holders were not resubmitted for a very good reason--under current standards they are accurately graded and would not upgrade.

 

A suggestion is not to be taken in by sellers hyping the "old holder" label. The coin is still in the "old holder" for a reason--it doesn't merit a new, upgrade holder.

 

You have a good looking MS65 coin that most likely a good many astute collectors looked at and decided it was just that and did not have the potential to move up a grade.

 

Hopefully, you paid a fair price, you have a solid MS65 1884 Morgan Dollar.

 

BTW, I neglected to welcome you to the forum. Good luck in your collecting.

 

$ilverHawk

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

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The coin is still in the "old holder" for a reason--it doesn't merit a new, upgrade holder.

 

You have a good looking MS65 coin that most likely a good many astute collectors looked at and decided it was just that and did not have the potential to move up a grade.

 

While this is certainly true for the coin in question, it is by no means true for all old holders. I have several old holders (both PCGS and NGC) that are no question upgrades - but I would rather have them in the old holders.

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Walkerfan

Walkerfan

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The coin is still in the "old holder" for a reason--it doesn't merit a new, upgrade holder.

 

You have a good looking MS65 coin that most likely a good many astute collectors looked at and decided it was just that and did not have the potential to move up a grade.

 

While this is certainly true for the coin in question, it is by no means true for all old holders. I have several old holders (both PCGS and NGC) that are no question upgrades - but I would rather have them in the old holders.

 

I agree with you; there are still some good ones out there and I have seen some recently.

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$ilverHawk

$ilverHawk

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Very good point. Not every collector will resubmit a great coin that by todays standards would upgrade.

 

And thinking along that line, it would probably be interesting to submit such coins to CAC to see if said coins would get a "gold bean". That way you keep the old holder and get a generaly respected third party opinion

 

$ilverHawk

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

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Your coin is in a first generation PCGS holder. Common belief was that many coins graded during this early period were conservatively graded and could be potentialy upgraded under current standards.The vast majority of those coins that could be cracked out and resubmitted for upgrades has already been done. The remaining coins in these holders were not resubmitted for a very good reason--under current standards they are accurately graded and would not upgrade.

 

A suggestion is not to be taken in by sellers hyping the "old holder" label. The coin is still in the "old holder" for a reason--it doesn't merit a new, upgrade holder.

 

You have a good looking MS65 coin that most likely a good many astute collectors looked at and decided it was just that and did not have the potential to move up a grade.

 

Hopefully, you paid a fair price, you have a solid MS65 1884 Morgan Dollar.

 

BTW, I neglected to welcome you to the forum. Good luck in your collecting.

 

$ilverHawk

 

Actually, I was contemplating purchasing the coin and have not done so. After all the helpful advice, I have decided to pass on the coin. I would like to thank all of you for your help. It has been a long time since I have glanced at the Morgan series, so it was clearly a wise step to consult the boards first.

 

Thanks again!

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FishyOne

FishyOne

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That coin is not undergraded if it's in a 65 holder now. I would leave well enough alone because my guess was 64 before reading the comments. It could be the photos but it doesn't have strong eye appeal in the images and the strike is average. I've seen many OGH 64's that looked as good as that one.

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