SkyMan goes to a different sort of Convention. (Caution: lots of pictures).

[SkyMan]

OK, let's get the numismatic connection out of the way first (in order to please TPTB... and 'cause I like space numismatics...).

 

Gemini 8: Neil Armstrong, Dave Scott (Not Flown).

 

 

This past weekend I went to the Kennedy Space Center (KSC) for a Convention sponsored by the Astronaut Scholarship Foundation (ASF).

 

ASF

 

Basically the ASF was founded by the Mercury 7 astronauts to create scholarships for students that are working in fields that will benefit astronautics... generally fields in the hard sciences. Almost all astronauts since then have joined the ASF, donating their time to this cause. Over the last several years the ASF set up an astronaut autograph convention at KSC which occurs sometime in November. The astronauts donate their time to various events set up by the ASF and then they get their pound of flesh by signing autographs for a fee at the convention.

 

 

I tried to find out what percentage of their fee went to the ASF, but no one would talk about that, so I'm going to take a WAG and say 50%. The fee to go to the convention is $10, and is open to the general public at KSC on the 3 days of the convention. OTOH, the ASF has various levels that you can donate at that allow you to get different access to the astronauts (and events). These levels range from $350 to $1,000 (and are essentially tax deductible). Given that I had never been to KSC before, and given the astronauts at the event, I decided to donate at the $1,000 level. Essentially the events that were covered at this level were:

 

On Friday in the morning, VIP seats if the shuttle launched (it didn't). So instead we heard a discussion by Scott Carpenter (an original Mercury 7 astronaut. He was the 2nd American to orbit the Earth in Aurora 7), Buzz Aldrin (Apollo 11, 2nd man on the Moon), and Charlie Duke (Apollo 16, a Moon walker). For lunch there was a discussion by the remaining astronauts (Tom Stafford, Vance Brand) of the Apollo-Soyuz 1975 mission. Then in the evening there was a cocktail reception (with heavy hors d'oevres) with all 43 astronauts who were going to be at the show. This was a total hoot (quite literally... I met "Hoot" Gibson... one of the "premiere" astronauts of the shuttle missions). Amongst others that I got to meet (I'll use an A for Apollo, a G for Gemini and an STS for Shuttle) and talk to were "Hoot" (STS 27, 41B, 47, 61C, 71), Joe Kerwin (Skylab 2), Gene Cernan (G-9, A-10, A-17 [Moon walker]), Dave Scott (G-8, A-9, A-15 [Moon walker]) Fred Haise (A-13, STS commander for the glide tests of Enterprise before the first shuttles were launched), Andy Allen (STS 46, 62, 75), and Kathy Thornton (STS 33, 49, 61, 73). Probably the two most enjoyable to talk to were Fred Haise and Kathy Thornton. Most people know Haise for being on Apollo 13, but he was also heavily responsible for developing the shuttle, and was the primary pilot for the glide tests of the first (non-powered) shuttle; Enterprise. Of the 43 astronauts at the show only two were women, so just by that metric Kathy Thornton would stand out, but for some reason most people paid no attention to her (only the other astronauts did), so I had the chance for a long conversation with her. Her 4 missions involved; a Dept. of Defense black mission; one of the first attempts to figure out the procedures for building the International Space Station (ISS); repairing the Hubble Telescope; and using sound waves in a micro-gravity (weightless) environment. One thing that was particularly fun about the set-up of the cocktail reception was that if the astronauts thought they were "alone" they'd open up in some very interesting ways. I overheard a VERY interesting conversation between Cernan and Scott about Buzz Aldrin.

 

The next morning, saturday, I got up early to have an early breakfast, as people at the top donation level were allowed in to see the astronauts at the convention center a 1/2 hour before anyone else. It's definitely an interesting experience to be eating breakfast and have sitting at the tables next to you Jim Lovell (G-7, G-12, A-8, A-13), Ed Mitchell (A-14, a Moon Walker), Cernan, Scott, and assorted shuttle astronauts. There were maybe 4 other non-astronauts in the room.

 

I originally had planned on getting 4 signatures at the show; 2 by Jim Lovell, 1 by Dave Scott, and one by Gordon. It definitely costs money to get an astronauts signature, but right at the entrance to the convention hall there were a variety of vendors selling all sorts of space stuff. I ended up buying a variety of pictures and decided to get them autographed. In particular there was one vendor selling 8.5" x 24.5" panoramic pictures of the 6 Moon landing sites. I ended up buying 4 of them; Apollo 12, Ocean of Clouds; Apollo 14, Fra Mauro, Apollo 15 Hadley Rille/Apennine Mountains and Apollo 16, Descartes. Here is the fee list for the assorted astronauts:

 

 

FWIW, the fees are relatively close (a little on the high side, but not too bad) to fair market value for astronaut signatures that you can get on the open market. Given that at least some percentage of the fees were going to the ASF the prices seemed fairly reasonable. The one big exception was Buzz Aldrin. A reasonable fair market value for a signed picture of his would be somewhere in the $200 - $250 range.

 

When I was let in to the convention hall I made a beeline to Jim Lovell, as I had brought 3 items I wanted to have him sign or to discuss about with him. One that I've posted to these boards before was a cardboard backed presentation item:

 

 

I wanted to find out who Howie was. Lovell said that Haise was more responsible for having these sort of presentation pieces produced, so that I should talk to him. I then had Lovell sign 2 items of mine; a polaroid picture (from the Ed White family) of the Gemini 7 (1965) prime (Frank Borman/Jim Lovell) and backup crews (Ed White/Michael Collins) having some fun by dressing up in a silly manner; and a copy of TIME magazine that had the rendezvous of Gemini 6 and G-7 on the cover. The cover had already been signed by the G-6 crew, Wally Schirra and Tom Stafford. This was the very first rendezvous in space in history and was one of the most important of all of the space FIRSTS.

 

Ed White, Frank Borman, Jim Lovell, Michael Collins.

 

The second astronaut that I went to was Dave Scott (G-8, A-9, A-15 Moon walker) as I wanted to find out more about this "license" plate that I own for the very first car driven on another world:

 

 

Specifically I wanted to find out how many "licenses" there were. I figured there would be something on the order of 10 to 50. Scott did not remember exactly how many there were (he remembered them more by the size of the package they came in, e.g. showing me by holding his thumb and index finger a certain distance apart), but he estimated that there were only about 15 in total. I then had him sign a fairly large (8.5" x 24.5") panoramic image of him and the outside-affiliatelinksnotallowed next to Hadley Rille (basically a canyon) with the (Lunar) Apennine mountains in the background. (I returned later to Scott to have a picture taken of us together while I held up the COA with the license, so that the provenance of the item is essentially indisputable).

 

Next on the hit parade was Alan Bean (A-12 Moon walker, SkyLab 3), who is also a talented artist. It was fun to talk to him about what style of art he likes to view and paint (Impressionist). Of all the astronauts he was the only one who cared about how his signature and inscription would look on the picture (another 8.5" x 24.5"). The picture is a panoramic picture of Bean next to the Lunar Module (LM). He suggested a special type of gold pen with the one drawback that the ink takes about 1/2 hour to dry. I accepted his advise and I have to say it does look really good. One item that I was interested in finding out from him was about his silver astronaut pin. When a person is accepted into NASA as an astronaut they receive a silver astronaut pin... in size somewhere between a nickel and a quarter. When they fly a mission into space they are allowed to purchase a gold astronaut pin (the exact same design, just a different metal). In 1969 Alan Bean decided that he was going to take his silver pin to the Moon on Apollo 12 and toss it there at the landing site, and that is what he did. Last year at auction I purchased Gordon's silver astronaut pin. Gordon flew on G-11, which is where he got his gold pin. However, he also flew on A-12, and his COA with the pin shows an A-12 mission patch.

 

 

I found out from Bean where he threw his pin on the panoramic picture (actually off of one edge of the picture). I'm contemplating framing the picture with the pin and the COA, and with a paragraph written by me about why/where Bean threw his silver astronaut pin. The items should look good together and the combo of them together should be a hot ticket if I ever decide to sell them at an auction (which, the good Lord willing, I don't see doing anytime in the next couple of decades).

 

After Bean I got the signatures of two more Moon walkers on panoramic pictures, taken while they were on the Moon's surface; Charlie Duke (A-16), and Ed Mitchell (A-14). I had an interesting conversation with Mitchell about his ESP experiments aboard A-14. Needless to say, NASA would not approve any experiment having to do with ESP, so it was something that Mitchell had to do "under the table". It's clear that ESP is a hot topic with him, and I'm guessing not too many people ask him about it, as I had a long and enjoyable talk with him about it, while other people were waiting in line. He did 4 experiments aboard the command module on the way back to the Earth, and the odds of him getting the results he did were 1 in 13,000.

 

Throughout saturday I kept wandering from the convention hall to a nearby auditorium where various astronauts were giving talks on what happened on their missions. One thing that I found quite interesting was that all of the astronauts that talked about it mentioned that they WERE scared to be on top of their respective rockets before lift-off. They basically said that if you weren't scared you didn't realize where you were. So much for the stiff upper-lip picture painted of the astronauts in the 1960's...

 

As saturday progressed I bought a a book, "Into That Silent Sea", about the early space programs of the US and the USSR. I met the authors of the book at the same time. I had Scott Carpenter and Dee O'Hara (the nurse to the astronauts from Mercury up to the earliest Shuttle flights) sign the book. It turns out Dee lives just down the road from me in San Jose.

 

During that afternoon I ended up getting signatures from Kathy Thornton (discussed above), Bruce McCandless (the first person to do an EVA [space walk] without any tethering to the spacecraft) and Fred Haise. In particular with Haise I wanted to find out more about the A-13 presentation piece (discussed above). Haise did not know who "Howie" was either. It turns out that the flown LM netting was given to a NASA support staff, and that staff made these presentation pieces for various workers that were important contributors to the program.

 

Dinner that evening was quite nice as Dave Scott was at my table, 1 seat to my left, so I had a chance to talk with him about assorted subjects. Not surprisingly he, and all the other astronauts I talked to, thought that this Administration's space plans were horrible. In theory the astronauts didn't have any problem with commercial space projects leading us into space, but they mentioned that the reality was that bigger projects, such as a return to the Moon or a trip to Mars, were not going to happen without US government backing. Also, just to put things in perspective, the NASA budget for 2011 is ~$20 billion, while the US Federal budget as a whole is ~$2 trillion. In other words NASA is just 1% of the US Federal budget... and it's technological spin-offs are one of the reasons the US is competitive in the high tech fields. Further, the current Administration's plan will essentially destroy the manned launch capabilities of the US. Until this year the US was planning on using RUSSIAN boosters/spacecraft to get us to the ISS, with US boosters/manned spacecraft coming online somewhere in the 2015 - 2020 timeframe. Now, under the current plans, there is going to be NO US booster and a useless manned spacecraft (to be used basically only if there is an emergency). All the knowledge base that we have built up over 50 years of manned flight will essentially be thrown out the window when the assorted workers have to leave to get new jobs. It really is pretty discouraging when you think of what our country will lose.

 

Anyhow, that night, because of my donation level, I was able to get photographed with the Gemini astronauts who were at the show. All 5 of these guys have been to the Moon (some twice), and three of them (Cernan, Scott and Aldrin) walked on the Moon.

 

Cernan (G-9, A-10, A-17), Scott (G-8, A-9, A-15), Lovell (G-7, G-12, A-8, A-13), Yours Truly, Stafford (G-6, G-9, A-10, ASTP), Aldrin (G-12, A-11).

 

The people at ASF noticed that they had all 8 of the remaining SkyLab astronauts at the show, so before the dinner they mentioned that for $150 (all proceeds to the ASF) you could get your picture taken with the SkyLab astronauts. I wasn't sure if I was that interested in it, but decided that a chance like that was too good to pass up, so here you go. SkyLab was the first US space station. The number of the SkyLab mission is given next to the astronauts name. Under NASA terminology SkyLab 1 was the launch of the actual space station.

 

Kerwin-2, Weitz-2, Lousma-3, Bean-3, Garriott-3, Yours Truly, Carr-4, Gibson-4, Pogue-4.

 

Sunday morning started off with a champagne breakfast with the astronauts at the convention center, before the autograph show opened up. It was fun to hear them ribbing each other about the various "service" academies (West Point etc.) football games the day before. Having gotten all the signatures I wanted the day before, I spent most of sunday checking out the KSC. It was neat to see the Shuttle from ~3 miles away. Also, if you ever get the chance, go see a Saturn V (there are two in existence). At KSC, there is a "Rocket Garden" near the front entrance that has many of the rockets used by the US in the late 1950's through about 1975.

 

 

The "garden" really gives you a feel for the scale of the different missions. There is a Saturn 1B on it's side on the left side of the image. The actual Apollo/Saturn V is in a separate building at the KSC. It is a frigging MONSTER. When you see it you realize just what a beast it was. To put things in perspective, you could stack two shuttle/boosters ON TOP OF each other and be the same approximate height as ONE Apollo/Saturn V. The engines of the first stage are just awesome to look at.

 

I also went to see two IMAX 3D movies at the KSC, and would recommend them to anyone that is interested. One of them has to do with the Hubble Telescope and the other has to do with the construction of the ISS. Given the large screen, both were really cool to see.

 

It was a REALLY fun long weekend for a serious space junkie. I got to meet and talk with 6 of the 10 living Moon walkers, as well as many other astronauts. If any of you are interested in that sort of thing I would highly recommend it. My scanner is not large enough to scan in the panoramic Lunar pictures, but here's one you might recognize (it's actual size is 8" x 10"). It is a picture of Bruce McCandless on the first non-tethered EVA ever. Clearly, this was one of the major steps in Man's move into space... somewhat comparable to taking off the training wheels. It will be interesting to see where the US manned program is in 10 years, as well as the space programs of the other countries around the globe.

 

[WoodenJefferson]

Buzz really gets a premium!

 

Cool Beans!

[BROADSTRUCK]

Great thread... I really liked the photo below as it reminded me of the 80's group Devo

 

[robec1347]

Exceptionally cool Sy!!!! And the Space Wing grows larger. I'm going back to re-read your post. Just too much information for one reading. Congratulations on a super great event.

[Razor2k]

Hi Sky.... I've been to KSC and Space and Rocket Center in Huntsville, AL.

You're not kidding, The Saturn V is an amazing sight! Any space enthusiatst

who has never seen it close up is missing out on one heck of a "goose bumps" experience!

[kryptonitecomics]

All of that jib jab about KSC and not one word about all the FUN sy had and the coins he left with me to image

 

Glad you had a great time out here Sy and I am glad we got to go out a few times....your top shelf buddy

[physics-fan3.14]

Sounds like an Awesome weekend!!!

[Coindude]

Sy, you have a great collection. One I'd love to see one day! When does your museum open!!

[SkyMan]

Glad you guys enjoyed the thread. I had a great time at the show.

 

 

[messydesk]

Buzz really gets a premium!

He must think that stint on Dancing With the Stars was worth something.

 

Very cool, indeed.

[cpm9ball]

Great thread... I really liked the photo below as it reminded me of the 80's group Devo

 

 

The first thing that came to my mind when I saw this photo was that it might have been a promo for the movie, Forbidden Planet .

 

Chris

[Coindude]

I was almost thinking the Three Stooges for some reason!

[WoodenJefferson]

Great thread... I really liked the photo below as it reminded me of the 80's group Devo

 

 

On a more somber note... I recognized the face and the name, a major set back for NASA.

[Lablover]

Hey Shane, don't feel to bad buddy...Sy failed to mention me too!!!!

 

I think I should MOON him.

[James_OldeTowne]

This is a ridiculously great thread.

[Old Pueblo]

Great Post Skyman.

I am appalled at the budget cuts leveled at NASA. Our space exploration will soon be "Made in China" along with everything else. I guess that's another reason the recent election turned out the way it did.

 

Thanks for the interesting read.

 

 

OP

 

 

[MarkFeld]

See here , where at least this thread would be less OT than it is here, on the U.S. Coins forum.

[Conder101]

I agree about the budget cuts. Every time I hear someone use the phrase "If we can put a mon on the Moon...." I can't help but think WE CAN'T!! If we were to seriously decide to go back to the Moon I think it would probably take ten years. We are currently about where we were in the early 60's. And after next years last shuttle flight we will be in the position that we are unable to even put a man into low earth orbit. Taking us back to where we were before Friendship 7 in 1961 and making us the third best space faring nation struggling to stay ahead of the Europeans Even if the replacement for he shuttle finally comes online it won't have the heavy lift capacity that the shuttle had which means increasing dependence on the Russians and eventually the Chinese..

[Coindude]

I have a really good friend, actually she's a good friend of my wife's, she went to HS with her, who works at Nasa, Houston campus. Wonder if she might be able to get you anything of interest. She has a marine biology degree and is in charge of all animal experiments that go into space. Just a thought.

[thebeav]

What a great write-up.

For the love of a 'G' and some change, it sounds like you had about fifty grand worth of fun. Always enjoy your space posts......

 

Paul

[WoodenJefferson]

See here , where at least this thread would be less OT than it is here, on the U.S. Coins forum.

 

You need to lighten up a bit there Mark it's not like these posts fall off the page in less than 30 minutes, I rather enjoy the diversity.

[rrantique]

Always great post Sy. Really enjoyed the photos. (thumbs u

[bsshog40]

Pretty cool Sy. Your collection must really be pretty large by now.

[Dcoin]

I love when you post space related memorabilia!

 

Does any private citizen own a moon rock?

 

[SkyMan]

Just to give you an idea of how the Saturn V compares to the other rockets, here are 3 pix of the FIRST stage of the Saturn V. Compare these pictures to the rockets you see in the "Rocket Garden" picture. The first stage of the Saturn V is officially called the S1C. Just to put this brute in perspective, the THREE engines on the back of the Shuttle (this does NOT include the solid rocket boosters) generate a TOTAL thrust of 1,200,000 pounds. ONE engine from the Saturn V first stage generates a thrust of 1,500,000 pounds. It was mindboggling to see how big this sucker was. The second image does not even show the whole length of just the first stage alone. At the left edge of that image you can see the Corvette from the first image.

 

 

 

[SkyMan]

I love when you post space related memorabilia!

 

Does any private citizen own a moon rock?

 

 

OFFICIALLY, no. That would be illegal.

 

Unofficially, the Moon dust on the astronaut's space suits was either scraped off or scotch taped off, and this dust has been on the market for years. I own some Moon dust from Apollo 12. Goldberg's was the auction company for the item, and I know that they send a copy of their auction catalogues to the appropriate NASA "desk". Basically if NASA does not do anything about the lots being sold, after 7 years the purchaser of the item wins legal control of the item. The dot that you see in the center of the "window" of this image is the Moon dust.

 

[kryptonitecomics]

Ok what's the deal with that white 68 corvette convertible

[SkyMan]

Ok what's the deal with that white 68 corvette convertible

 

It was put there to give a sense of scale, and give an idea of the sort rides the astronauts had while on the Earth. The Apollo 15 crew had 3 of them; 1 red, 1 white and 1 blue.

[Hard Times]

I love when you post space related memorabilia!

 

Does any private citizen own a moon rock?

 

 

OFFICIALLY, no. That would be illegal.

 

Unofficially, the Moon dust on the astronaut's space suits was either scraped off or scotch taped off, and this dust has been on the market for years. I own some Moon dust from Apollo 12. Goldberg's was the auction company for the item, and I know that they send a copy of their auction catalogues to the appropriate NASA "desk". Basically if NASA does not do anything about the lots being sold, after 7 years the purchaser of the item wins legal control of the item. The dot that you see in the center of the "window" of this image is the Moon dust.

 

 

Apollo moon rocks are mostly property of the US government and cannot be owned.

 

But, there are lunar meteorites. Lunar rocks that get kicked off the Moon by impacting bollides, that then land on Earth. We find them in hot deserts (mostly Africa) or Antarctica. The hot desert ones are collected by meteorite hunters and are legal to own. Antarctica ones are collected by various countries and then kept for research purposes and not legal to own. I am doing research on several of the desert ones right now, we get allocations from the commercial hunters who have the where-with-all to save some of each for research.

 

These desert lunar meteorites are priced at around $1-4K/gram and certainly very special and rare.

 

 

 

 

 

[SkyMan]

HT is certainly correct. I was talking about rocks from the NASA (and Soviet unmanned) landing sites.

 

As far as meteorites go, you can also find/purchase rocks from Mars for that matter.