Hard Times Tokens - Post Your Images

[BROADSTRUCK]

I have a modest small collection of tokens but no background info or number plus they are raw so i enjoy looking at and reading about the different tokens presented. I also look at mine and compare to get a sense of possible grade should I ever decide to entomb them. Its fun and its historical, no, not hysterical. However I wouldn't post mine as most are lower grade and probably not as photogenic. Keep posting them here as they are a treat as well as educational.

 

Not every token is available in high grade, so please don't feel discouraged to post yours!

 

Here's an example...

 

1835 HT-201 / Low 163 Howell Works Garden, Allaire New Jersey.

 

Scarce above VF and almost non existant over XF as they circulated heavily.

 

Since the planchet is always slightly dished do to the high relief rose obverse, the "OKE" in the word "TOKEN" on the reverse is almost always completely worn away.

 

 

Honestly rons IMHO it would be just as tough to form a HTT collection in unmolested VF at a $30 per token budget as it is to locate Gems.

 

This series has been HEAVILY abused in lower grades and smooth issue free circs are really tough to locate and would offer quite a challenge.

[Hard Times]

Nice and rare Broadstruck! Here is a recent acquisition that I obtained from a board member here. This is an upgrade for me. What is interesting is, if you look closely at the pic, you can see lots of lines in the fields. Okay will you might need a blowup to see this but take my word on it they are there. Those are not scratches made after the token was issued. They all raised and are actually die polish lines. Compare the photos of the MS64 first with the MS62 below - no die polish lines on the 62. In fact, inspecting the 62, there appears to be evidence for die rust in the fields represented by roughness. This suggests to me that the dies were polished and additional specimens struck after use? An equally possible interpretation is that the 64 was stuck earlier on fresher dies where die polish lines were still there, then the die rusted and was re-used. On inspection it looks like the die breaks on the rim of the 64 may be slightly less than the 62? Any other interpretations anyone has on this would be welcome.....

 

 

 

[BROADSTRUCK]

The commonly seen die polish lines can be seen on this HT-9 which belongs to my friend coinsarefun which was imaged by Mark Goodman.

It's also possible to see the "I" in "Third" was re-cut on a die which I used to think was due to the die becoming tired in the center. But may have been a spelling error by the die cutter (?) as I've seen the same on early die stage fully struck HT-9's.

 

 

[BROADSTRUCK]

[Hard Times]

I can't decide whether to say 'oooooh' or 'aaaaaaah' or 'wow'. My grade - MS66RB

 

Wow, it is amazing to see an HT so spectacular, thanks for sharing this one and the others Broadstruck

[BROADSTRUCK]

I can't decide whether to say 'oooooh' or 'aaaaaaah' or 'wow'. My grade - MS66RB

 

Wow, it is amazing to see an HT so spectacular, thanks for sharing this one and the others Broadstruck

 

It's almost fully mint red, fully struck, and has been described as Gem BU in every auction catalog since the 1980's but NGC I guess didn't like the spots and MS64RB'd it.

 

I used to own the top pop 1/0 NGC MS65RB which was about 20-25% red and softly stuck on centers, middle sail lines and experiment on the reverse. Very comparable strike wise to the ex Garrett in the book you just got.

 

Here's an old point-n-shoot pic of the MS65RB.

 

[Hard Times]

... Is that 'blue' toning I see in the sails

[BROADSTRUCK]

1837 H. Crossman HT-244 / Low-113

 

[Hard Times]

Fresh problem free AU58? Nice.....................

 

 

[BROADSTRUCK]

Fresh problem free AU58? Nice.....................

 

 

Nope... NGC MS64BN

[Hard Times]

Here is my HT-81. This is a fairly common token at least when in the Hard Time series. No we are not talking about 200,000 of these certified like many common Morgans. But NGC has certified 129 examples, including 18 at AU58 (this one), and 16 examples in MS, including 1 in MS64. This token carries a premium because of the theme, and is listed at #10 in the 100 Greatest American Medals and Tokens (Jaeger and Bowers). The companion 'AM I NOT A BROTHER' HT is very rare, 3 known, and prices are in the 10s of thousands. So the HT-81 is thus the only one that most of us can afford.

 

This example has a nice cartwheel under the light. NGC got this right - it has a touch of rub giving it an AU58. I have wondered whether I should crack it an try for an MS grade, I am guessing if I did this several times I may get a 62 - NGC is terribly inconsistent in grading HT's because they are so hard to grade. I have seen worse examples of this token in MS holders to be sure. I have 64's in 62 holders, I have 62's in 65 holders, etc. Just darn hard to grade given all the complications regarding strike, die rust, planchet inconsistencies, etc. But I will never sell this token so I don't really care all that much about the grade at this point.

 

[BROADSTRUCK]

1841 HT-22 / Low-64 Daniel Webster

 

[Hard Times]

Nice Broadstruck

 

For those interested, I just started another copper token thread on World Coins Forum next door:

 

Conder Images

[BillJones]

Hi Hard Times

 

The obverse of that "Am I a woman & a sister?" token does not look like a Mint State piece to me, at least not on the obverse. I see a rub her shoulder, thighs, leg and ankle. The reverse might make Mint State, but that’s not the side that is going to put it over the top. The flatness I see in the leaves is clearly the result of the strike, but obverse even in the fields is a different story.

 

Even if it makes it into an MS-61 holder, I’m not sure most specialists would agree with that.

 

[BROADSTRUCK]

1838 Daniel Webster HT-24 / Low-66

 

An early die stage example as I've never seen another with sail lines on all 7 sails... as most all have about 3-4 totally smooth sails with no lines.

 

Dies by John Gibbs show a steer on the reverse whose significance is unknown today.

 

[BillJones]

Here is the example of Low 60 that is in my collection ...

 

 

I never looked in the die state aspects of this variety.

 

I think significance of the bull of this piece has to do with placating the yeoman farmer vote, which was a very significant constituency for the Democratic Party during the years of Jackson and Van Buren. Other images of farm implements and even a farmer plowing appear on Van Buren pieces. I wish I had an example of the Van Buren piece with the farmer plowing, but it’s a rare one, and I didn’t have the extra money to bid on one when a couple of them came up at auction.

 

Here is an example of the “Temple of Freedom” design which shows a rake and a plow in the foreground.

 

[Hard Times]

Bill I fully agree with you on your interpretations of my HT-81 with respect to grade. My point was though, that NGC can be very inconsistent grading these, and I would wager that in 4 submissions, one of them might come back a 61 for this one based on my experience.

 

HT-24. A few years back, the perfect one for me was up at a HA auction. I bid strongly, thought I had the winning bid, but Coin Rarities Online won it for the same bid, so I guess they placed their bid first and I did not realize I needed to go one more increment. I did not know at the time it was CRO, I found out after perusing their past adds on their website a few months ago and connected the timing. Had I known they won it, I would have bought it off of them. Since, then, haven't found the right HT-24, they are very hard to find as you both know with no problems and relatively high grade.

[Hard Times]

[SouthFlorida guy]

 

This is a kick @ss thread! Awesome tokens and a history lesson to boot.

 

THNX Hard Times

[Hard Times]

It is my pleasure SF guy. Thanks go to everyone posting nice tokens on this thread, and the history that goes along with them. SF if you have some, post-em and tell your story!

 

Best, HT

[BROADSTRUCK]

I really enjoy photographing raw copper!!!

 

1835 J.C. Peck HT-363 / Low-271

 

A tasty little milk chocolate morsel... rightfully so being ex: Frank H. Saccone collection owner of Toll House Cookies.

 

 

HT, Yes it's my first clipped planchet...

 

But I made an exception as most all of the Troy NY HTT's have either planchet or striking issues as most are just very crude in appearance.

 

Although rated as R-1 by Rulau this token can be found at times in G-VF condition, yet above XF the rarity level is in an entirely different orbit. For type representation it has been missing from many of the prior assembled finer HTT collections.

 

This example is one of the nicest I've seen as it has no peripheral or central striking weakness and I really like it VERY much!

 

 

The die cutter must have had fun with this design as if you look at both the obverse and reverse fields there are no real voids as they tossed a small head and as many stars and flowers that would stick.

[Dudley the 1st]

Very nice Token. I'm working with a customer on a " Oliver Boutwell " collection . If anyone has any they are considering selling, feel free to contact me.

[Hard Times]

the thread is waning, I am getting out of sequence but here is a nice HT 219:

 

[/img]

[BROADSTRUCK]

1837 New York Merchant's Exchange ht-293 / Low-97

 

 

Here's a lil info on the Great Fire of New York in 1835...

 

 

The Great New York Fire was a conflagration that destroyed the New York Stock Exchange and most of the buildings on the southeast tip of Manhattan around Wall Street on December 16–17, 1835.

 

The fire began in the evening in a five-story warehouse at 25 Merchant Street at the intersection with Pearl Street between Hanover Square, Manhattan and Wall Street in the snow-covered city and was fed by gale-force winds blowing from the northwest towards the East River. With temperatures as low as −17 °F (−27 °C) and the East River frozen solid, firefighters had to cut holes in the ice to get water. Water then froze in the hoses and pumps. Attempts to blow up buildings in its path (a technique later regarded as counterproductive) were thwarted by a lack of gunpowder in Manhattan. Firefighters coming to help from Philadelphia said they could see signs of the fire there.

 

About 2 a.m. Marines returned with gunpowder from the Brooklyn Navy Yard and blew up buildings in the fire's path. By then it covered 50 acres, 17 blocks of the city, destroying between 530 and 700 buildings. The area is now reported as Coenties Slip in the south to Maiden Lane in the north and from William Street in the west to the East River. The losses were estimated at twenty million dollars, which, in today's value would be hundreds of millions. Only two people were killed. Insurance was not forthcoming because several insurance company headquarters burned, bankrupting those companies.

 

Many of the stores were new, with iron shutters and doors and copper roofs, and in burning presented the appearance of immense iron furnaces in full blast. The heat at times melted the copper roofing, and the liquid ran off in great drops. The gale blew towards the East River. Wall after wall was heard tumbling like an avalanche. Fiery tongues of flame leaped from roof and windows along whole streets, and seemed to be making angry dashes at each other. The water of the bay looked like a vast sea of blood. The bells rang for a while and then ceased. Both sides of Pearl Street and Hanover Square were at the same instant in the jaws of the hungry monster. An investigation did not assess blame and reported that the cause of the fire was a burst gas pipe that was ignited by a coal stove.

 

Since the fire occurred in the middle of an economic boom caused by the recent opening of the Erie Canal, the destroyed wooden buildings were quickly replaced by larger stone and brick ones that were less prone to widespread major fires. The fire also prompted construction of a new municipal water supply, now known as the Old Croton Aqueduct, and a reform and expansion of the fire service. As a result, this was the last great fire of New York. Still, the insurance companies who lost buildings in the fire decided rebuilding was not worth the risk, and moved operations to Hartford, Connecticut. Today, Hartford is still known as the "Insurance Capital of the World."

[Hard Times]

Nice contribution Broadstruck - burn baby burn - Disco inferno . Interesting history, lovely token. I am still admiring the Peck above, but your ME is crisp with full steps - that counts as a premium in Jefferson's world

 

Here is my HT-153. Dark Belgian chocolate with a sprinkle of orange and Hershey, strong flash under the light. What appears to be die rust on the reverse fields, while the obverse has a good strike, crisp shield, not complete, not quite a full beehive strike (BHS)

 

Full BHS in the Jones series are tough to find, if you can find the full BHS the other strike weakness on the obverse is usually absent.

 

[BROADSTRUCK]

1837 - 1840 W. Gibbs, Agriculturist, New York, NY, HT-272 / Low-151, R-6.

 

[BROADSTRUCK]

1837 Illustrious Predecessors, HT-A33, R-5 variety.

 

As HT-33 / Low-19 but stuck on larger 29.5mm planchet, borders are denticles, not beads, donkey's ear does not touch I in "IN".

 

[BROADSTRUCK]

Nice contribution Broadstruck - burn baby burn - Disco inferno . Interesting history, lovely token. I am still admiring the Peck above, but your ME is crisp with full steps - that counts as a premium in Jefferson's world

 

Thanks HT...

 

But shouldn't you be photographing a token to post instead of reliving your Disco era youth?

 

 

1837 Illustrious Predecessors HT-32 / Low-18

 

[Hard Times]

Yep I am gonna post a new one this evening, stay tuned. nice HT-A33 and HT-32. The HT-272 is an amazing specimen.

[Hard Times]

Here is my new HT-47. This went in a Stacks auction a few years back, I got it on ebay last week. The slab is banged up, I tried to polish out the marks on the plastic but did not succeed. It is well struck with bright cartwheel flash under the light. The left side of the obverse field has a few pinscratches, which I think brought it down to 63. It is a medallic turn with around a 15-20 degree CCW rotation from 180. The SW quadrant on each side has alot of original mint red. Probably the most mint red of any HT in my collection as most of mine are toned over completely. I like it.